Originally Posted by
Fendrith
I generally find these discussions about what content is and isn't better for what percentage of the population to be interesting. There has also been a ton of toxic slippery slope and straw man arguing in here that is essentially worthless.
I did, however, feel the need to respond to this particular traditionalist fallacy. Just because something has been a certain way for a long time doesn't at all mean it is wise for it to continue. I can't believe I have to say this in the current year. I'm not going to insult your intelligence further with the myriad examples of how "it's been this way since X, so it should stay this way" isn't useful.
10 mans were indeed popular because more people got to try content they wouldn't otherwise be able to try. The idea that it was weaker and for (lazy) players is pretty interesting - you yourself just said you only made it to 5/14H. Easier front door, but apparently it wasn't so weak that you could make the 14/14H. Between Wrath and MoP, there were examples of certain bosses being harder on 10 man and other bosses being easier. Nothing about the difficulty, save for that it is objectively easier to gather 10 people vs 20, guaranteed it was going to be easier to actually *execute* boss kills. It varied fight-to-fight and tier-to-tier. Sometimes the tuning was off on the 10 man, so things would hit disproportionately hard. Sometimes fights with high personal responsibility mechanics were harder in 10 man, especially fatal ones, people making mistakes was more punishing. In other cases, the opposite was true.
To summarize, "we should keep it the way it's been since X even though things have changed significantly since X" isn't a real argument in and of itself. Surely you can come up with other reasons that it should be this way other than "well that's how it's been, Cleetus, so that's how it should stay."
It doesn't sound like the OP is asking for raiding to be easier. The OP is asking for a return to something we've already done before that was popular and that lowered the *barrier to entry* for raiding, not the actual difficulty level of the content. And nothing about 10 man guaranteed it was easier to do anything other than get the people together to try it.
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I do think, though, that solutions like this aren't really great. Like it or not, there are some people who enjoy the content as is. They enjoy the intensity, they enjoy the grind, and so on. It is as much their game as it is yours. And, with the world first race, MDI, and AWC, those things are - and have been - part of the core culture of the game. If that doesn't resonate with you, that's okay. But why advocate for stripping that stuff categorically from the people who want it and enjoy it? Surely there are solutions that don't require it to be "my way or the highway." "Take everything from them or else."
If you don't want to participate in the gear treadmill of mythic raiding, then don't. I have been in US top 50 guilds. I have been in US 800 guilds. I am currently just pvping. As I've gotten older - and more washed up - I can't participate in the time sink and grind that mythic raiding is anymore. Not at the "higher levels" certainly. So, I don't do it. You can make that choice, too. The easier difficulties are already there for the people who want that.
To be clear, I think this is a separate discussion from 10man v 20man, because 10s are not inherently easier aside from the HR component of recruitment and management.