Enough Cinematics already!

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I love cinematics. They make me feel like I was really a part of something big. Especially realistically made cinematics that are part of the story continuation. I remember when I played Star Wars there was always huge amount of story cinematics. It was all amazing unless I wanted to play an alt and I couldn't skip them. As long as I play my main character in WoW mostly, then cinematics don’t bother me. I like to watch them, even after some times to memorize some events.

[shadowroguetbc]

Reading is tough I know



Maybe, if you wouldn't add words that completely change the meaning of a sentence you'd have a better time understanding?
Or expressing yoruself?

Wow ok I guess I have to explain the English language to you.

When you say “you said cinematics are disruptive” you are implying that everytime I see a cinematic, that it’s disruptive. Or like I said, that they are only disruptive.

Here let me show you some tips on how to use English in order to completely change a sentence. “You said that cinematics CAN be disruptive”.

You see how this works? I changed one word, and it completely changes the sentence. My beef is that they ARE disruptive, it’s how they CAN be disruptive. The only thing you’re arguing is telling me how amazing cinematics are. I’ve told you tons of times that I agree, that they are amazing. My argument is that sometimes they can be overused and they can be disruptive.

Do we need to have a comprehension class before we have a discussion or can you at least attempt to keep up.

[KrayZ33]

Wow ok I guess I have to explain the English language to you.

When you say “you said cinematics are disruptive” you are implying that everytime I see a cinematic, that it’s disruptive. Or like I said, that they are only disruptive.

Here let me show you some tips on how to use English in order to completely change a sentence. “You said that cinematics CAN be disruptive”.

You see how this works? I changed one word, and it completely changes the sentence. My beef is that they ARE disruptive, it’s how they CAN be disruptive. The only thing you’re arguing is telling me how amazing cinematics are. I’ve told you tons of times that I agree, that they are amazing. My argument is that sometimes they can be overused and they can be disruptive.

Do we need to have a comprehension class before we have a discussion or can you at least attempt to keep up.

Wow.
Uhm... lol. It seems like you don't know what disruptive means? Or are you leaving out the context on purpose?
Cinematics *are* disruptive. They stop your gameplay.
I'm adressing that (in all my posts actually) by saying I'd rather have that than poorly done gameplay (in that situation - i.e. Undercity and all the other WoW examples I've given, the Witcher examples I have given etc. etc.)
When you say I accuse you of saying they are "only" disruptive, then you are saying I'm ignoring what you said about how they have a place and time, or even hold it against you.

You see how it works?

I still don't know what you want me to adress that I haven't already.
So why do you even bother with me and why do I bother with you? Lets just stop.

[shadowroguetbc]

Wow.
Uhm... lol. It seems like you don't know what disruptive means? Or are you leaving out the context on purpose?
Cinematics *are* disruptive. They stop your gameplay.
I'm adressing that (in all my posts actually) by saying I'd rather have that than poorly done gameplay (in that situation - i.e. Undercity and all the other WoW examples I've given, the Witcher examples I have given etc. etc.)
When you say I accuse you of saying they are "only" disruptive, then you are saying I'm ignoring what you said about how they have a place and time.

You see how it works?

Ok and those arguments you just gave me are actually valid ones (even tho I disagree with them, I think the undercity quest is amazing).

But in your last couple posts all you have been doing was listing off and explaining to me how good cinematics can be and giving me good examples of good cinematics. I told you that you aren’t actually saying anything against what I said because I agree they are great. And yeah I also prefer them if the alternative is terrible gameplay(?) but I didn’t realize that was our only option lol.

You see id rather have a game with story built into the game and have it be done in a good way. Instead I think a lot of companies are working around building their story into gameplay in good ways, and instead just cutting the corners in game development and just slapping on a 5 minute cinematic.

You coming in and telling me how amazing some games are at using cinematics isn’t refuting my arguments at all.

[KrayZ33]

Ok and those arguments you just gave me are actually valid ones (even tho I disagree with them, I think the undercity quest is amazing).

But in your last couple posts all you have been doing was listing off and explaining to me how good cinematics can be and giving me good examples of good cinematics. I told you that you aren’t actually saying anything against what I said because I agree they are great. And yeah I also prefer them if the alternative is terrible gameplay(?) but I didn’t realize that was our only option lol.

You see id rather have a game with story built into the game and have it be done in a good way. Instead I think a lot of companies are working around building their story into gameplay in good ways, and instead just cutting the corners in game development and just slapping on a 5 minute cinematic.

You coming in and telling me how amazing some games are at using cinematics isn’t refuting my arguments at all.

We can find a solution, when you point me to the post you made where you gave a proper example of that (the bolded part). Just point me towards it and I'll re-read it, maybe I actually missed it and I'll admit being at fault here.
Because I don't see how Wrathgate and D2 are proper examples for that.
The reason why Wrathgate doesn't work has been given by others already, the reason why I believe D2 doesn't count is because the story you are given by just playing through the game is very little and most, if not basically everything, is told through NPCs talking to you (

When I read, "story through gameplay" I'm actually thinking about walking through an area and getting background information by what I'm seeing.
Or listening to radio chatter from soldiers or something like that.
The thing is, most games have that, it's just that the story in games is way more complex now than 20 years ago.
That just won't suffice anymore, which is why you see more cutscenes in general, but not excessively so, which is what I understood you are criticizing.
Games aren't all about gameplay anymore (like, just to give an example for the sake of making it obvious, "Pong"). Most games have RPG elements, even shooters are very story driven now and haven't been in the past.
If you want an engaging story, you need to build up a world and more importantly, characters - characters talk a lot, and thus you'll see more cutscenes now.
And I believe these cutscenes are the "tedious" ones, aren't they? Yet they are the "fun" alternative in my opinion (the reasons why *I* think so have been given).
It's not the action scene that shows how we kill the boss *after* we've beaten him in a boss fight, is it?

[shadowroguetbc]

We can find a solution, when you point me to the post you made where you gave a proper example of that (the bolded part). Just point me towards it and I'll re-read it, maybe I actually missed it.
Because I don't see how Wrathgate and D2 are proper examples for that.
The reason why Wrathgate doesn't work has been given by others already, the reason why I believe D2 doesn't count is because the story you are given by just playing through the game is very little and most, if not basically everything, is told through NPCs talking to you (

When I read, "story through gameplay" I'm actually thinking about walking through an area and getting background information by what I'm seeing.
Or listening to radio chatter from soldiers or something like that.
The thing is, most games have that, it's just that the story in games is way more complex now than 20 years ago.
That just won't suffice anymore, which is why you see more cutscenes in general, but not excessively so, which is what I understood you are criticizing.
Games aren't all about gameplay anymore (like, just to give an example for the sake of making it obvious, Pong). Most games have RPG elements, even shooters are very story driven now and haven't been in the past.

I did give you multiple examples but you disliked them lol. This doesn’t mean what I said was wrong, it means that you didn’t prefer them?

But I guess I can try some more?

Half life, portal 2, dark souls... these games had some cutscenes but used them very well and built most of their story into their gameplay. I could also list off some really older games that did this well, but going to far back would sort of be disingenuous because these types of games weren’t made for any cutscenes at all.

And some games have quite a bit of cutscenes but they are done very well like red dead redemption 2.

But there are games recently that have put almsot all their story into cutscenes and it’s terrible. Far cry new dawn is one of these.

[Nnyco]

If you don't want cutscenes, don't play RPGs?

You fail to read properly, i do like cinematics, but when these super long ones its just silly.

[Thrif]

Does anyone else feel this way?

100%. If I want to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie, I wouldn't fire up a game. Especially since most video game writers aren't actually any good at writing compelling stories but ended up in their position through other means.

Video games are amazing because they give the player the tool to create their own stories, but the more linear and movie-heavy a game is, the less that is a possibility for the player.

Maybe this is a bit of a tangent from your original point, but really not a fan of the increasing trend of making games more like interactive movies with bad forced plots than actual games where player agency is a main driving force and concern.

[Powerogue]

Depends. Just as long as they don't get in the way of gameplay. For example I despise the Doom Eternal level which has almost no fighting for an entire hallway of lore pickups.

WoW for example I think does it generally well, a few in the questing at climactic moments, and generally reserved for the ends of raids once the action has died down (as players running tend to skip start or mid dungeon cutscenes to avoid falling behind their friends that do)

[PACOX]

If you don't want cutscenes, don't play RPGs?

Plenty of RPGs don't have lengthy cutscenes.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Plenty of RPGs don't have lengthy cutscenes.

It kinda depends on the RPG we are talking about here. If you have a dialogue heavy one then a cutscene isn't really neccessary, since you already are in a dialogue mode where stuff happens that isn't part of the combat loop. In these you can even throw in a canned animation easily to get the same result as you'd with a cutscene. If you have an action game then cutscenes are usually used to let you do stuff the normal combat loop doesn't feature, like action scenes and extended conversations where you aren't given dialogue choices.

[Mysterymask]

Plenty of RPGs don't have lengthy cutscenes.

Depends on what you call a cutscene

I for example would call the Kalm flashback in FF7 a cutscene despite it being fully playable, the social links in the persona series are basically cutscenes where you can choose dialogue. In game actions where nothing really happens but dialog and story or what we call in wow "RP" can be basically a cutscene.

[shadowroguetbc]

Depends on what you call a cutscene

I for example would call the Kalm flashback in FF7 a cutscene despite it being fully playable, the social links in the persona series are basically cutscenes where you can choose dialogue. In game actions where nothing really happens but dialog and story or what we call in wow "RP" can be basically a cutscene.

I don’t mean to be too much of a dick here but there is a definition for cutscenes, and what you described is not a cutscene, objectively.

[Mister K]

I like cutscenes as it eases out the pacing of the overall story (trust me, you need them ). Cutscenes for multiplayer games are rather annoying.