Enough Cinematics already!

[hulkgor]

It kind of depends on how they are used. How long, how frequent, how impactful.

I like cinematics, or cool cutscenes, but they can't be overly long, or in quick succession... anything that causes loss of control for too long just turns annoying.

[RCA]

No real opinion on this but did you play the story mode of MK11, man that was basically a movie.

[shadowroguetbc]

Haha, I edited my last reply. Thanks for your response though. I really didn't mean to call you out. I am just implying that a certain type of game tends to have very disconnected cutscenes. There are plenty of games, even great ones, with throwaway cutscenes as well. Some games, however(IMO, like Hades by Supergiant) have really made the narrative blend in well with the game and actually improve the game.

I'd say that the further away I remove myself from the discord style of game, the more I'm starting to see some of the real innovations in narrative over the last few years.

As for long cutscenes, Persona 5 Royal has long, LONNNNNNG cutscenes around every corner. It is one of my goats, so the truth is I probably just like long cutscenes, lol.

Yeah I understand some people like cutscenes, some people like games that are literally ONLY cutscenes like until dawn or video games of this nature.

For me, when I play a video game I want to be playing a video game, but I also do LOVE the stories behind them. If it gets too cutscene-y it just starts to feel like a movie.

Maybe I can use an example to show how this feels in a way... imagine you go to the movies and 10 times in the middle of your movie before it swaps scenes they give you text on the screen explaining events that happened between both scenes and you have to sit their for 5 minutes and read it and if you don’t you’ll be missing out on the story. It would be annoying. You went to go see a movie, so you expect to go see a movie. But at the same time, text on the screen isn’t necessarily a BAD thing for a movie. Sometimes it’s needed, like in a movie where they tell you a real life story, and at the end of the movie it gives you a 5 minute piece for you to read about what the characters in the movie have done with their life, you know like the “And Ashley grew up to be a lawyer and moved into her first house in Boston” type of stuff.

I feel the same way about video games and cutscenes. At certain points it’s needed to tell the story. But when it’s the MAIN focus to the story, I think that’s just shitty story telling for a video game specifically.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

More film-like video games the better imo.

[Mysterymask]

Honestly my opinion on cutscenes depend on how its done

MGS Style (long but skippable) Fine just because its skippable...

MGS Codec Style/Persona Dialog (LOOONG stretches of Dialog that are at least fast forwardable): Not gonna lie..kinda hate it. First time going through it is fine and yes I can "Fast Forward" it...still takes FOREVER...shout out to Metal Gear Solid 2 for having a cutscene to talk to someone then "Wait wait we don't have the budget to have a cutscene THIS long with only dialog so we better make this a codec conversation...with cutscenes sprinkled between it BACK to the codec conversation"

Any Unskippable FMV Cutscene: fine the first time but yeah having to watch them again on second playthroughs isn't exactly fun.

"Playable Cutscenes": A good example of this is the FF7 Kalm Flashback. Playing it the first time "OOOH COOL LOOK AT THIS AND THERES SEPHIROPH IN MY PARTY AMG"...nowadays I REALLY wish I could skip it. There's even a mod for the PC version of FF7 TO ACTUALLY SKIP IT! Some are ok like Final Fantasy 9 has some long spouts of this that are a huge part of the games charm and has some of the better storytelling but otherwise I'm kinda meh

Resident Evil 4 QTE Cutscenes. Hate these to death! Oh wanna walk away from this cutscene cause you think you have a chance to take a drink TOO BAD PRESS SQUARE REPEATEDLY...oh you didn't? Damn your dead hope you saved.

[shadowroguetbc]

Resident Evil 4 QTE Cutscenes. Hate these to death! Oh wanna walk away from this cutscene cause you think you have a chance to take a drink TOO BAD PRESS SQUARE REPEATEDLY...oh you didn't? Damn your dead hope you saved.

Ok yes those are the absolute fucking worst kind right here. They try to make the cutscene more ‘interactive’ but they literally just put a single button on a timer to time a dodge attack or to duck or something. So immersive.

[PACOX]

I tend to skip dialogue heavy scenes and convos but that's because I usually play with subtitles and read faster than a scene plays out. Sometimes VA on rigging is too good to skip though. There's some games where cutscenes really don't matter at all but I generally let longer scenes play out.

[ro9ue]

It's complicated but generally I like cinematics as a trailer or promo material, and potentially as an intro when you first start the game to set the tone / backstory. When it comes to delivering cinematics in a game, I'm not a huge fan of the just cut you out of the gameplay / control and feed you a movie. And the more a game does it the more I'm like why not just make an animated film and put it on Netflix or something.

[KrayZ33]

Cutscenes are very important to me for storytelling and the general feel of the whole situation.

Metal Gear Solid:PP for example, has a lot of cutscenes and they are all fun and awesome.
At the same time, it also uses the other version you are mentioning here well too. (Like during the time where that virus has broken out in your base, or at the very beginning of the game in the hospital)

In WoW, the ones where you still have *full* control of your character, like during the time you invade Undercity or the stuff that happens when you defeat Denathrius before you get access to the loot are all pretty much garbage and completely out of touch to what has happened or is happening.
I'd rather have that cutscene with the Prince charging towards Denathrius at the end of Revendreth, than witness the same thing horribly scripted and me watching it right next to it. Not to mention the technical problems that come alongside these scripts.
The amount of phasing I had witnessed while leveling in the middle of an event like that is indie-developer worthy.
But WoW is really weak in that regard either way, so it's hard to justify either version of a cutscene/event.
Everything that isn't cinematically rendered is usually painful to watch/witness in that game in general, with very, very few exceptions.
One of these very few examples (and most of them came from that Addon in the first place) happens when you enter the Spires of Arak zone for the first time in WoD and you see that huge tower laserbeaming the shit out of the woods below it with the power of a sun.

So.. overall I disagree. Cutscenes (ingame cinematics or rendered stuff) are way better than the alternative for most games.

[shadowroguetbc]

Cutscenes are very important to me for storytelling and the general feel of the whole situation.

Metal Gear Solid:PP for example, has a lot of cutscenes and they are all fun and awesome.
At the same time, it also uses the other version you are mentioning here well too. (Like during the time where that virus has broken out in your base, or at the very beginning of the game in the hospital)

In WoW, the ones where you still have *full* control of your character, like during the time you invade Undercity or the stuff that happens when you defeat Denathrius before you get access to the loot are all pretty much garbage and completely out of touch to what has happened or is happening.
I'd rather have that cutscene with the Prince charging towards Denathrius at the end of Revendreth, than witness the same thing horribly scripted and me watching it right next to it. Not to mention the technical problems that come alongside these scripts.
The amount of phasing I had witnessed while leveling in the middle of an event like that is indie-developer worthy.
But WoW is really weak in that regard either way, so it's hard to justify either version of a cutscene/event.
Everything that isn't cinematically rendered is usually painful to watch/witness in that game in general, with very, very few exceptions.
One of these very few examples (and most of them came from that Addon in the first place) happens when you enter the Spires of Arak zone for the first time in WoD and you see that huge tower laserbeaming the shit out of the woods below it with the power of a sun.

So.. overall I disagree. Cutscenes (ingame cinematics or rendered stuff) are way better than the alternative for most games.

No offense at all here, but to me this whole thing just sounds like “I’d rather just watch a movie instead of play the video game”. Which is fine, but this is the exact opposite of what I think a good video games story should be lol. Anyone can tell a good story with videos, but that’s what Netflix is for.

[KrayZ33]

No offense at all here, but to me this whole thing just sounds like “I’d rather just watch a movie instead of play the video game”. Which is fine, but this is the exact opposite of what I think a good video games story should be lol. Anyone can tell a good story with videos, but that’s what Netflix is for.

It's just a realistic outlook on what is possible with video games and what is not.
A character standing there doing his idle animation or whatever pre-animated animation there, while talking/ when someone is talking to him, or when something is happening around him, is just god-awful and immersion breaking. Since immersion is a big factor in video games, it's very important.

If you leave people to do what they want during a conversations in an FPS game, people will do exactly that and the worst thing that will happen is that the player might not even notice what is actually going on.
For example, when Ghost/Soap get killed by Shepherd, that's a cutscene - how would you tell that story or make that scene without a cutscene that has the same effect? It's really easy to say "it's bad storytelling".
But that's just you saying it, when it's actually not imho. It's a great method for games to tell a story or to explain a scene or to have a shocking moment or whatever.

For exmaple:

I don’t want to sound too “well back in the day”ish because maybe there are still games that do this, but I don’t know if I think the stories are all that bad. I think Diablo 2s story was great, and i can probably count the amount of cinematics on one hand. The difference is they tell their story through the game and not cutscenes. Dialog can really go a long long way and I think that it has been a dying strategy to telling stories for quite some time.

I think the story-telling in D2 is extremely bad. The player isn't involved in the story revelations at all.
All that Info I have now is from wiki's and stuff because the game did a horrible job explaining anything.
And what little they did explain, was done by standing there and listening to a slow scrolling text-box, which is the equivalent of a cutscene.
I don't know what kind of cutscenes you are refering to, but I don't see how they are different to just strictly better presented dialogues and scripted events.

I have yet to understand or see an example of a game that had done it better without these cutscenes?
I don't see how the dialogue pauses during the Battle for Undercity (as an example given by you) were in any way whatsoever superior to what could've been a properly animated cutscene.

[shadowroguetbc]

It's just a realistic outlook on what is possible with video games and what is not.
A character standing there doing his idle animation or whatever pre-animated animation there, while talking/ when someone is talking to him, or when something is happening around him, is just god-awful and immersion breaking. Since immersion is a big factor in video games, it's very important.

If you leave people to do what they want during a conversations in an FPS game, people will do exactly that and the worst thing that will happen is that the player might not even notice what is actually going on.
For example, when Ghost/Soap get killed by Shepherd, that's a cutscene - how would you tell that story or make that scene without a cutscene that has the same effect? It's really easy to say "it's bad storytelling".
But that's just you saying it, when it's actually not imho. It's a great method for games to tell a story or to explain a scene or to have a shocking moment or whatever.

For exmaple:



I think the story-telling in D2 is extremely bad. The player isn't involved in the story revelations at all.
All that Info I have now is from wiki's and stuff because the game did a horrible job explaining anything.
And what little they did explain, was done by standing there and listening to a slow scrolling text-box, which is the equivalent of a cutscene.
I don't know what kind of cutscenes you are refering to, but I don't see how they are different to just strictly better presented dialogues and scripted events.

Like I said, cinematics has its place and at certain points it’s necessary, but if I’m being interrupted for long periods of time or really really frequently, then THAT is immersion breaking, not only is it immersion breaking, it’s not even a video game anymore. It’s literally just a movie (depending on what game you’re talking about).

Like I said, everything your describing just sounds to me like you would rather just watch a movie about your story rather than play it lol. Which is fine, to each their own.

[KrayZ33]

Like I said, cinematics has its place and at certain points it’s necessary, but if I’m being interrupted for long periods of time or really really frequently, then THAT is immersion breaking, not only is it immersion breaking, it’s not even a video game anymore. It’s literally just a movie (depending on what game you’re talking about).

Like I said, everything your describing just sounds to me like you would rather just watch a movie about your story rather than play it lol. Which is fine, to each their own.

It's literally not, which game is? I don't see how anything I've written so far suggest I'd rather watch a movie than play a game. Cutscenes in a game don't mean I'm not playing a video game. They are just usually a much better way to show or tell a story.
For example: MGS games in general are probably the most cutscene heavy games there are...
MGS5:PP has a 27 minute cutscene and I think multiple long cutscene sequences - and the game has exceptionally well play-driven storytelling.

You can listen to stories on cassette tapes while walking around or doing missions.
I can decide at what point I do what, I can decide what I do in general, I can decide how I do it. Due to how games work, somtimes I'm forced to do something because I wasn't good enough to do the other thing.
Nothing of that is possible in a movie. Gameplay isn't "lost" due to cutscenes, they just enhance the experience.

[shadowroguetbc]

It's literally not, which game is? I don't see how anything I've written so far suggest I'd rather watch a movie than play a game. Cutscenes in a game don't mean I'm not playing a video game. They are just usually a much better way to show or tell a story.
For example: MGS games in general are probably the most cutscene heavy games there are...
MGS5:PP has a 27 minute cutscene and I think a 60-70 minute long cutscene sequence - and the game has exceptionally well play-driven storytelling.

You can listen to stories on cassette tapes while walking around or doing missions.
I can decide at what point I do what, I can decide what I do in general, I can decide how I do it. Due to how games work, somtimes I'm forced to do something because I wasn't good enough to do the other thing.
Nothing of that is possible in a movie. Gameplay isn't "lost" due to cutscenes, they just enhance the experience.

The story behind the gameplay can be lost if you don’t feel like spending 22 mins of your time watching a movie in the game if you only have an hour to sit and play the game.

Which is why I think that type of story telling specifically for a game is lame. Unless it is doing it in a way that is really grasping your attention and this is a cutscene that is very rare, then I’ll be glad to watch it. But if the cutscenes are every 5 minutes or they are very frequent, it’s just lazy story telling for a video game IMO.

[KrayZ33]

I've yet to encounter a game that has had cutscenes in 5 min intervals.
This is just some "what if"-scenario or extreme exaggeration that has never happened. What's the point of that...

[shadowroguetbc]

I've yet to encounter a game that has had cutscenes in 5 min intervals.
This is just some "what if"-scenario or extreme exaggeration that has never happened. What's the point of that...

It seems you haven’t read much of this post before commenting then because theres literally one in the OP. Go play outriders.

[Tojara]

Think it depends on the genre. In no way shape or fashion are you going to change how an RTS plays during it's campaign. Those games are historically story driven games with pre-map story in a lobby section, various cut scenes during the actual mission itself (both at the start, and the ending), and usually ends with various cinematics strung throughout that particular campaign, with the culmination of an actual fully realized cinematic at the end of it. Warcraft and Starcraft are like this, but I guess one can argue that it's really two games you're essentially buying when you play an RTS (sometimes more if you consider UMS options in some RTS games). You have the story mode where you expect constant interruptions to the flow of battle, and then you have the actual multiplayer where there's zero interruptions.

I will say that most games just have the ability to skip in game events though, it only becomes a problem if they prevent you from doing it (which is rare). WoW for example isn't really that bad at doing this and I'll watch everything play out at least once. Generally you only see long lavish cut scenes at the end of a particular story element or completion of a zone/raid encounter, and those happen so infrequently that I doubt it would ruffle anybody too much.

One of the worst experiences I ever had playing games was in FF8 when you couldn't skip the summon animation during the game. This game had a lot of other problems, but this one literally drained on me so hard that I actually put the game down for over a year before basically forcing myself to finish it. For those that don't know what I'm talking about, FF8 forced you to watch the summon animation each and every time you used it, and most of them were incredibly drawn out not to mention some of the most damaging abilities you could actually do in the game.

I think one of the worst implementations of cinematics or cut scenes are QTE ones. They're essentially just cut scenes where you kind of have to pay attention and press the A button usually every once and awhile, just so the developers can make sure you're still alive. It's not so much that I hate the concept of them, but sometimes when playing a game I just want to ease off for a bit (especially in stressful games, or horror games) and take a breather. I don't want to sit there watching a cut scene in RE4 where I have to spam A to run away from a boulder, or have various button prompts while I do ninja moves in the same game while in a fucking knife fight. I'd rather they not exist and just be a traditional cinematic where I could just watch.

Overall though I think cinematics and cut scenes are good. They generally enhance the story and for games that I give zero shits about the story, I'll just skip them because I have zero interest.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

I don't mind them if they do a decent job helping to weave the story. The only game I would really call excessive was the Xenosaga games, those did feel like 5 minutes of game play to 15 minutes of cut scenes, to the point that I didn't even get that far into the first game.

[Nnyco]

Cinematics are cool unless you have silly companies like squeenix where they throw you super long ones at your face.

[Daedius]

I enjoy cinematics for storytelling.