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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I'm pretty sure the death tolls of the first and second war were way larger.
    Except the First and Second War could be excused by demonic mind control. As could the blood elves agreeing to join a faction that included the former Scourge who genocided 90% of their species. Come to think of it, nearly all the Horde races, at least pre-Pandaria, were enemies at one point who realized that working together was better than remaining enemies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    Ion has said in multiple interviews recently that "the team is aware of issues regarding faction imbalance and is actively working on a solution"

    So they definitely are working on it.
    Except that imbalance is only at the highest levels of play, and the game has not been and should not be balanced around that.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Except that imbalance is only at the highest levels of play, and the game has not been and should not be balanced around that.
    And I agree to an extent but you are still wrong imo.

    Afaik Alliance Horde Ratio is around 40:60. Thats not balanced in an MMO. At worst you would say 55:45 is close to balance.

    Secondly, you arent 'balancing the game around that' at all. They've already said categorically (thank god as it silenced all the people on forums saying otherwise) that factions will never go away and will never get merged. It is a pillar of Warcraft.

    That DOES NOT MEAN that they wont set up systems that allow the top end to play with each other in certain content, such as M+ and raids. That isn't balancing the game, that's just setting up systems to stop the incentive being larger on one side than the other. As a result, many horde players will inevitably go back to alliance, still being able to raid with their guilds, groups, and friends on the other side, but being able to make the roleplaying and thematic character preference they wish.

    Im a staunch defender that the factions are a fundamental core pillar of this entire franchise, I've been arguing it on this forum since I joined, and way before Ion said it for the first time at Blizzcon, but I am also a huge advocate that players should be able to play with friends, should be able to raid and dungeon together cross faction as a means to balance the game, and make the user experience simply put, significantly better.

    You should exist within a split world, you should feel that split, you should know you are red or blue, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't all be able to play purple together.
    I for one have basically a 50:50 split of friends horde and alliance, I prefer Horde, but the players I'm most likely to raid with/dungeon with are alliance, so I'm kinda screwed. Saying 'go make new friends' is a ridiculous statement, you should be able to play with the people you choose. IRL friends, family, partners. And this system has to exist to allow that.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Except the First and Second War could be excused by demonic mind control. As could the blood elves agreeing to join a faction that included the former Scourge who genocided 90% of their species. Come to think of it, nearly all the Horde races, at least pre-Pandaria, were enemies at one point who realized that working together was better than remaining enemies.
    Being addicted to demon roids isn't exactly mind control.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  4. #64
    When in MOP they allowed Panderans to choose their faction would have been a good time to provide this option to everyone. I think this should be the way to go about it, like someone else said end of an expac or beginning of an expac.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Hell no. Factions should never be able to cross, ever.
    they alredy do with mercenary,also they do lore wise,they even do gameplay wise since vanila in many player made scenarios

    it makes less sense that we cant cross faction raid and guild...i mean...argent dawn?literaly a cross faction ''guild''

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    they alredy do with mercenary,also they do lore wise,they even do gameplay wise since vanila in many player made scenarios

    it makes less sense that we cant cross faction raid and guild...i mean...argent dawn?literaly a cross faction ''guild''
    We could probably list a few "guilds" Knights of the Ebon Blade as one that is cross faction

  7. #67
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    Cross Faction guilds may be a bit too big of a step, but if they did the 'Mercenary' type thing for dungeons and raids, that would be a rather easy lift to start with.
    Add a checkbox to enable 'Mercenary' mode in the LFG tool, then when you search, you see groups from both.
    When you join the group and enter the instance, you are now friendly to the group and can just play the game.
    If this goes over well, then start working on broadening it to non-instanced content.

    In 2004, yeah, I guess I could understand the whole "faction pride" nonsense.
    People who promoted Horde and spit on Alliance, yeah, it was cute for a while.
    But at the end of the day, this is nothing more than a game, a 16 year old game, and ultimately just a slice of entertainment, so making it easier to play and enjoy only makes sense.
    If you are somehow offended by the concept of a Gnome joining your party, that's a "you" thing and you should probably talk to someone about who hurt you.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    Cross Faction guilds may be a bit too big of a step, but if they did the 'Mercenary' type thing for dungeons and raids, that would be a rather easy lift to start with.
    Add a checkbox to enable 'Mercenary' mode in the LFG tool, then when you search, you see groups from both.
    When you join the group and enter the instance, you are now friendly to the group and can just play the game.
    If this goes over well, then start working on broadening it to non-instanced content.

    In 2004, yeah, I guess I could understand the whole "faction pride" nonsense.
    People who promoted Horde and spit on Alliance, yeah, it was cute for a while.
    But at the end of the day, this is nothing more than a game, a 16 year old game, and ultimately just a slice of entertainment, so making it easier to play and enjoy only makes sense.
    If you are somehow offended by the concept of a Gnome joining your party, that's a "you" thing and you should probably talk to someone about who hurt you.
    nope,in 2004 made just as little sense,after warfcraft 3 the initial idea wasnt enemy faction,they didnt even plan it to be that way at first,it was clear that many of these races were friendly now,it made no sense to have the 2 faction system,they just did it for gimmicky gamey reasons

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitedrifter View Post
    We could probably list a few "guilds" Knights of the Ebon Blade as one that is cross faction
    Literally all the class oder halls are cross faction. In reality the player is a free agent anyway since we work together with whoever we need if the story demands it. Some of the races couldn't even be distinquished in the first place, like pandaren or belfs that haven't fel-juiced in a while. Heck in lore we all speak common..
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by J1n70 View Post
    We all know this is the direction Blizzard is heading
    Do we?

    For all I know Blizzard is hellbent on pretending there's no faction imbalance as long as they can find a single Alliance RPer in Goldshire on Argent Dawn EU or Moonguard US. For everyone else, thank you for your 55$ contribution for faction changing and transferring to a high pop horde server so you can actually "access" the content you're paying sub for, i.e. group based end game.

  11. #71
    I took a break from WoW cause Alliance dying. If Blizzard don't find a solution, problem will bigger with every patch. I' am not sure about returning to game in 9.1 if Blizzard don't give us a potential solution for alliance players base disadvantage.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    And I agree to an extent but you are still wrong imo.

    Afaik Alliance Horde Ratio is around 40:60. Thats not balanced in an MMO. At worst you would say 55:45 is close to balance.

    Secondly, you arent 'balancing the game around that' at all. They've already said categorically (thank god as it silenced all the people on forums saying otherwise) that factions will never go away and will never get merged. It is a pillar of Warcraft.

    That DOES NOT MEAN that they wont set up systems that allow the top end to play with each other in certain content, such as M+ and raids. That isn't balancing the game, that's just setting up systems to stop the incentive being larger on one side than the other. As a result, many horde players will inevitably go back to alliance, still being able to raid with their guilds, groups, and friends on the other side, but being able to make the roleplaying and thematic character preference they wish.

    Im a staunch defender that the factions are a fundamental core pillar of this entire franchise, I've been arguing it on this forum since I joined, and way before Ion said it for the first time at Blizzcon, but I am also a huge advocate that players should be able to play with friends, should be able to raid and dungeon together cross faction as a means to balance the game, and make the user experience simply put, significantly better.

    You should exist within a split world, you should feel that split, you should know you are red or blue, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't all be able to play purple together.
    I for one have basically a 50:50 split of friends horde and alliance, I prefer Horde, but the players I'm most likely to raid with/dungeon with are alliance, so I'm kinda screwed. Saying 'go make new friends' is a ridiculous statement, you should be able to play with the people you choose. IRL friends, family, partners. And this system has to exist to allow that.
    I agree with your sentiments. I don’t want to see the faction system be removed. The conflict between Horde and Alliance is a driving force in the game and has been since the beginning. A system that preserves this conflict in lore but allows for cross faction guilds and play resolves this without destroying the lore.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by J1n70 View Post
    I agree with your sentiments. I don’t want to see the faction system be removed. The conflict between Horde and Alliance is a driving force in the game and has been since the beginning. A system that preserves this conflict in lore but allows for cross faction guilds and play resolves this without destroying the lore.
    The thing is, talking from a developer perspective here, imo, Blizzard knows this and knows they have no choice. The game is getting old and they will increasingly have to play 'preservation' with their playerbase, this issue was mitigated largely in the past but its starting to show that its causing strain on the playerbase. They cannot allow that or not take action, hence Ion saying multiple times they know about this. He even stated there are WoW devs in their office with the same predicament I just said I'm in, and they know it is a huge issue. Id perhaps say its one of if not the biggest community issue this game has faced thus far.

    See I don't think they should have cross faction guilds, people argue a guild is a 'player owned concept' and thus a guild could allow members from any group they wanted. Im not so sure, I do believe guilds have a sort of faction pride associated with them. But Blizzard will have accepted imo that they will need to start working on the architecture to allow cross faction invites to groups.

    For example, and this is just off the top of my head.

    You go in your guild, there's a tab showing the other factions symbol, or perhaps a generic symbol, we can call this tab mercenaries.

    Lets say your guild is alliance, and you have a level 60 alliance character in there, but you don't want to raid on it.

    Now you log over to your level 60 horde character. In my opinion you should show up in this tab as online IF you toggle your mercentary status as on. Similar to warmode or other modes, you should have a button to activate your avaliablilty as a mercenary and you should show online in that tab.

    That alone would largely solve this issue provided they worked on the architecture to allow that to happen, which admittedly will be difficult but it must be done.

    Thematically they need to identify how this works. Do you turn into the opposite faction when you join the group? Id personally say you shouldn't, as it defeats half the purpose of having that system. That person wants to play an orc warrior, not a human. But that's up to Blizzard to decide.

    Again, imo they absolutely know this and are probably working on a system as we speak to figure this out. Id bet my life this is a feature we will see in the near future. Probably next expansion, but it will happen.

  14. #74
    The Patient qil's Avatar
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    With more cross faction things we won't need factions at all. Cause if we can player together, then why we still need 2 factions? At this moment Ally and Horde are really simillar.
    Last edited by qil; 2021-04-15 at 06:11 PM.
    Already they plot against us.
    Seize this moment, Varian.
    Dismantle the Horde!

  15. #75
    Conflict creates interesting stories. Factions are fine, they should stay in the lore, just no need to impair gameplay.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by qil View Post
    With more cross faction things we won't need factions at all. Cause if we can player together, then why we still need 2 factions? At this moment Ally and Horde are really simillar.
    We wouldn't. With cross-faction PvE the factions would essentially become transmog options.

    FWIW, I think these threads are a bit misleading because of the fact that forum users often represent the minority of players most impacted by the social drawbacks in the two-faction system. You'll find no shortage of people on this forum calling Blizzard retarded for refusing to immediately make all PvE content cross-faction. Some of them will construct convenient conspiracy theories about how its all a massive ploy by evil Bobby Kotick to fill ActiBlizzard's coffers with faction transfer money. There's a prevailing cynicism that Blizzard intentionally created the problem simply so they could profit from it later. But these forums represent a very insular echo chamber that doesn't very well reflect the broader playerbase as a whole. For every passionate player who claims that cross-faction is a "no-brainer" there are just as many cyclical casual players who may get turned off to the idea of WoW as a whole simply because the system is removed. And then, of course, it becomes a question of whose voice means more to Blizzard: Those currently subscribed or those who unsubscribe and come back. This forum will give you a resounding answer in favor of the former but it's Blizzard's job as a developer to also consider the latter before making these decisions.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2021-04-15 at 06:35 PM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Conflict creates interesting stories. Factions are fine, they should stay in the lore, just no need to impair gameplay.
    IMO the faction conflict has been the least interesting part of WoW since cataclysm. We know they're just going to work together the next time a big bad forces them to anyway, and no side is ever going to really 'win.' It just feels played out and recycled to me at this point. You can have interesting stories without having the player base divided.

  18. #78
    Blizzard's poor writing doesn't mean the concept of opposing faction conflict isn't a perfectly fine story generator. It is.

    And I agree, there's no need to impact gameplay. Make it lore and PvP only.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by qil View Post
    With more cross faction things we won't need factions at all. Cause if we can player together, then why we still need 2 factions? At this moment Ally and Horde are really simillar.
    Even though my government might have issues with Russia or China, I don’t.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Being addicted to demon roids isn't exactly mind control.
    That's the most inaccurate "description" of the blood curse I've ever read.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

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