In-game Raider.io score

[craigw]

the irony is that most likely +5-9 is hardest m+ bracket atm - because you have only extremly undergeared people there - and not like 1-2 undergeared people but your whole team is extremly undergeared plus you dont have pride to bypass hardest parts of dungeons.

imo +10s are much easier to time then lik +7/8 because you have plenty of 215+ people quing for 10s while you have literlay non quing for 7-9 .

my 218 druid i qued yesterday with,followed by my 216 priest. druid did a 8, priest did a 9. "literally" is used wrong in your sentence.

[Wuusah]

Let me finish off by saying, the way you approach pugging is very good. You're able to play with "random people" and still retain the social aspects of the game. The problem is that you are a rarity in relation to the entire player base. The majority of people don't say anything other than "hi" when they join a pug. And with auto queue systems in place they don't even say "hi".

I don't think @Tziva says anything more in pugs either. What exactly is there to talk about in a group filled with random strangers who all just want to finish their dungeon and move on? Pugging is not a replacement for guilds and communities. You talk about the dungeon, the route, when to use lust, etc. You beat the dungeon and if it was a good group, someone might link their key and ask if people want to do another one. What exactly are people supposed to talk about? The weather?

[Kaver]

but your whole team is extremly undergeared

They are not even undergeared. Good players were doing +10 keys in 180 gear at the beginning of the expansion. Players have just gotten so used to outgear content because of Titanforing that they lost all sense of appropriate gear levels. People think they need to be 220 ilvl to complete heroic raids and +15 keys. A group of good players can easily complete a +10 key in 180 gear and a +15 in 200 gear.

[chiddie]

I know you don't want to hear it but if you're failing 50% of keys, i don't think its other players problem.

Yes, I predicted this reply

Luckily enough I understood with time that 9 on 10 when I pug others keys, I’m usually not the issue.

The % of failures with others keys grew dramatically when I reached 13-14 bracket, before it was a little lower (would say around 30%).

Ah, it’s not pertinent to this reply in particular but if Blizzard implements rio it would be nice to see also rio of the other members of the group you’re signing up besides the key holder, a lot of times I joined a supposedly 1200 rio group to see that only the key holder had that rio and many others were way below, probably friends or guildies searching for a carry.

[Kaver]

I don't think @Tziva says anything more in pugs either. What exactly is there to talk about in a group filled with random strangers who all just want to finish their dungeon and move on? Pugging is not a replacement for guilds and communities. You talk about the dungeon, the route, when to use lust, etc. You beat the dungeon and if it was a good group, someone might link their key and ask if people want to do another one. What exactly are people supposed to talk about? The weather?

You don't have to talk about the weather.. the question is how you treat the other players. Do you enjoy playing with them or are they just "a necessary evil" to complete content.

This is why I wanted to distinguish between the type of pugging you talk about and the type of pugging @Tziva talks about... because they are two very different experiences. And the toxic and harmful environments develops when people only view each other as tools to complete content.

[THEORACLE64]

gearscore never had extra features. compare it to something like on screen flashy icons when your abilities proc, blizz put a bunch of those in but people still use more advanced addons to do that all the time. or compare it to blizzard ingame boss emotes vs bossmods vs weakauras.

it's entirely possible blizzard will make their ingame version just as good as raider.io, but i personally doubt it. especially the history feature and amount of runs/kills feature are things i don't think will make it to blizz version.

Doesn't matter about "features", it's how people use it - and people use it exactly the same. Look at the score, nothing else.

[Ilookfly]

1400 io is very low so that makes sense.

[Kaver]

Luckily enough I understood with time that 9 on 10 when I pug others keys, I’m usually not the issue.

This right here is a major issue in pugging. People think they are not part of the issue but in reality they are. People think they do the mechanics in the right way but in reality they don't. And because people don't communicate they never learn. They keep on making the same small mistakes because they are not corrected by anyone. A lot of toxicity comes from this because people are trying to put the blame on other players when they themselves are doing the mechanics wrong. But they just don't know any better.

[Ilookfly]

We did +15s week 2 of the xpac. We do 15s on freshly dinged alts now. Gear is rarely the issue.

[chiddie]

You don't have to talk about the weather.. the question is how you treat the other players. Do you enjoy playing with them or are they just "a necessary evil" to complete content.

This is why I wanted to distinguish between the type of pugging you talk about and the type of pugging @Tziva talks about... because they are two very different experiences. And the toxic and harmful environments develops when people only view each other as tools to complete content.

I personally enjoy doing dungeons because I love healing. I chitchat before, if possible during and always after the run (if it ends, whatever the result) but most people are not interested.

Due to having to beat the timer to succeed, it’s usually a standard gogogogogogogo run with some casual “bl now plz” and nothing more.

I won’t blame the players only, though, this “players=bots” behavior is caused and encouraged by the game before than by the players.

[Wuusah]

You don't have to talk about the weather.. the question is how you treat the other players. Do you enjoy playing with them or are they just "a necessary evil" to complete content.

This is why I wanted to distinguish between the type of pugging you talk about and the type of pugging @Tziva talks about... because they are two very different experiences. And the toxic and harmful environments develops when people only view each other as tools to complete content.

I don't think the majority of players who are pugging see pugs as a "necessary evil" to complete content or as NPCs as you said. I think you made this up to have some reason to hate pugs

[ellieg]

Yes, I predicted this reply

Luckily enough I understood with time that 9 on 10 when I pug others keys, I’m usually not the issue.

The % of failures with others keys grew dramatically when I reached 13-14 bracket, before it was a little lower (would say around 30%).

Ah, it’s not pertinent to this reply in particular but if Blizzard implements rio it would be nice to see also rio of the other members of the group you’re signing up besides the key holder, a lot of times I joined a supposedly 1200 rio group to see that only the key holder had that rio and many others were way below, probably friends or guildies searching for a carry.

If you are failing 50%, you are the common denominator. Its either your skill in the dungeon, your skill at selecting groups to join, or your skill at selecting teammates to invite. Find out which is the problem and fix it. Most players do not fail 50%. Thats a huge red flag

[chiddie]

This right here is a major issue in pugging. People think they are not part of the issue but in reality they are. People think they do the mechanics in the right way but in reality they don't. And because people don't communicate they never learn. They keep on making the same small mistakes because they are not corrected by anyone. A lot of toxicity comes from this because people are trying to put the blame on other players when they themselves are doing the mechanics wrong. But they just don't know any better.

I have an age and I am very critical about myself. I ran some guild runs also and the first times I was very worried about me being the issue after all, but I’ve always timed them and I’ve been always told I was perfectly fine (I’m new to the guild, they have no interest in tell me I’m good if I’m bad).

Of course I am far from being perfect and I make my mistakes but when you see at the end of the run that you failed it with only 1 wipe and all the dps with a whooping 3.5k average in a +14, it’s quite clear why we didn’t make it in time. And I can assure you that 9 on 10 of my non timed run are due to dps not dpsing.

[Wedny22]

I'm just curious, what do the people against RIO think should happen? As far as I can tell, you guys do not want people to be able to quickly identify who has or has not completed M+ dungeons or what the difficulty was. So when people are putting together a pug, they should have no idea what you have completed previously? Why is that? I mean, never mind that these things are timed and groups can take ages to form. Never mind that good players have taken the time to learn the mechanics, routes and optimal rotations for each dungeon and have earnt the opportunity for a smooth run. You guys, who have put in zero effort, expect to be carried through what ever level of content you desire because... why exactly? Im genuinely curious. Seriously, this bad player logic and child-like sense of entitlement makes absolutely no sense to me.

This is a really really good take on the whole situation. Thank you! Im gonna user this argument, you made me smarter totdat!

[Kaver]

I don't think the majority of players who are pugging see pugs as a "necessary evil" to complete content or as NPCs as you said. I think you made this up to have some reason to hate pugs

Well you are allowed to think that. And I'm not sure if it's the majority, but it's a major part nonetheless. And the rest of the players are then victims to the toxic behavior of that major part. That's why I always tell people who are actually interested in the social aspects of the game to join a guild (or some other type of community).

[chiddie]

If you are failing 50%, you are the common denominator. Its either your skill in the dungeon, your skill at selecting groups to join, or your skill at selecting teammates to invite. Find out which is the problem and fix it. Most players do not fail 50%. Thats a huge red flag

Since I pug 99%, it’s usually the second. Unfortunately I cannot be too picky, if I see a 13-14 I need and the group maker has a reasonable rio I apply. I can’t play enough to be too choosy, that’s also why I’m a healer (less queues). I can usually afford one run per session, that’s also why my fail % is so high.

I would love being able to run 5 M+ per day and possibly within my guild only, but it’s just not possible.

[Wuusah]

Yes, I predicted this reply

Luckily enough I understood with time that 9 on 10 when I pug others keys, I’m usually not the issue.

The % of failures with others keys grew dramatically when I reached 13-14 bracket, before it was a little lower (would say around 30%).

Ah, it’s not pertinent to this reply in particular but if Blizzard implements rio it would be nice to see also rio of the other members of the group you’re signing up besides the key holder, a lot of times I joined a supposedly 1200 rio group to see that only the key holder had that rio and many others were way below, probably friends or guildies searching for a carry.

you will never get better at this game or anything in life, honestly, if you just point your finger away and blame others. With everything that happens, you can always look back and reflect on what mistakes you made. A few days ago I was in NW+14 with my rshaman alt. The tank didn't kite the hard hitting abomination trash and ate one armor crushing hit after the next one and eventually died because he was unhealable. Whose fault was it? His obviously, he didn't kite and let the stacks fall off. But I also didn't use my Spirit Link Totem which would've easily saved him. So it was my fault as much as his. Honestly, even more than his. He died while I had unused cooldowns.

I can guarantee you, if you recorded your gameplay and uploaded it, you'd find plenty of mistakes that you didn't even realize you were making while playing. You are so focused on all the mistakes the others make, you don't see your own.

[Kaver]

Since I pug 99%, it’s usually the second. Unfortunately I cannot be too picky, if I see a 13-14 I need and the group maker has a reasonable rio I apply. I can’t play enough to be too choosy, that’s also why I’m a healer (less queues). I can usually afford one run per session, that’s also why my fail % is so high.

And this is why group makers don't want to invite people who are "on par" because the chance of getting shitters is much higher.

[Kaver]

I'm just curious, what do the people against RIO think should happen? As far as I can tell, you guys do not want people to be able to quickly identify who has or has not completed M+ dungeons or what the difficulty was. So when people are putting together a pug, they should have no idea what you have completed previously? Why is that? I mean, never mind that these things are timed and groups can take ages to form. Never mind that good players have taken the time to learn the mechanics, routes and optimal rotations for each dungeon and have earnt the opportunity for a smooth run. You guys, who have put in zero effort, expect to be carried through what ever level of content you desire because... why exactly? Im genuinely curious. Seriously, this bad player logic and child-like sense of entitlement makes absolutely no sense to me.

"But my mom told me I'm good so obviously I'm not being carried!"

[ellieg]

No it’s not a huge red flag. 13-14 is the dead zone. There’s a huge ramp up in difficulty at that point and it’s where tons of groups end up failing. If you can power through there and get to KSM, life is good. But immediately below KSM is a disaster area.

Also, if you’re trying to push and you’re at your limit, then you should be failing 50%. That’s just how the system works.

If everyone succeeded 70% of the time, key levels would just go up endlessly.

My 212 resto druid is in that range and I'm no where near 50% fail rate. Especially when you are doing 14s, you get all the higher players looking for easy vaults. Ya the 13s are hard but not 50% fail hard. Only if that's your skill cap like you said, which is what I think he needs to own up to, instead of blaming it on everyone else. Especially since he's mentioned failing easy mechanics multiple times.