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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    You're still making generalisations about the pugging population that frankly aren't accurate or fair. I'm not the exception to how PuGs are, and you seem to think I am; I am a reflection to what is very common in the PuGing community.
    Just to clarify: Who are you talking about when you say the "pugging population" and "PuGing community"? Because I'm talking about the WoW population as a whole. You might be very common in relation to the "pugging community" you're talking referring to, but you're a rarity in relation to the entire WoW population. Players that are in active guilds and communities are a minority compared to the entire WoW population. There are A LOT of players who play wow as a single player game and want the game to adapt to their style of gameplay. Which I think is bad. These are the players that hate rio.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2021-04-20 at 07:39 AM.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Thats way to much work and reminds me of pre-RAIDER.IO with wowprogress checks in the browser.

    => just cancel everyone who is behind the curve in KEYS-DONE. Less than 30/40 +15 timed runs at this late stage of the game? Just cancel for your weekly vault, no reason to waste your time. There is no way to min-max the vault with 10/10 ~15 keys and not gaining timed key statistics, the sheer gearlevel increase over time and the weeks with easier affixes (PUSH WEEKS) makes it impossible to stay at a fixed metric for dungeons done.
    As a healer I would instead just love to see average dps for appliers, for me it’s far more important than the number or the level of completed runs, I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Just to clarify: Who are you talking about when you say the "pugging population" and "PuGing community"? Because I'm talking about the WoW population as a whole. You might be very common in relation to the "pugging community" you're talking referring to, but you're a rarity in relation to the entire WoW population. Players that are in active guilds and communities are a minority compared to the entire WoW population. There are A LOT of players who play wow as a single player game and want the game to adapt to their style of gameplay. Which I think is bad. These are the players that hate rio.
    This is also due to the fact that gameplay is really not THAT exciting for tanks and in a lesser extent healers so if you play solo and wanna push and you are non meta dps and you can’t afford long sessions, it just takes ages and you give up and start whining.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    As a healer I would instead just love to see average dps for appliers, for me it’s far more important than the number or the level of completed runs, I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.
    If you've got some time to spend, you can try to check their warcraftlogs. If they are good at raiding they may not perform well in M+ however, but if they are bad at raiding, that's a no-go.

    If you can't find any logs and raider.io doesn't show any raiding experience, that means they only do M+. In this case, if they have good score and good gear, just check for their number of timed runs. If it's high enough, that means they aren't boosted, and a M+ exclusive player. Chances are high they're fine.

    This doesn't apply to alts by the way. If you're picky, just avoid any alts with way less score than their main, or on a different role.
    Last edited by Naville; 2021-04-20 at 08:29 AM.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Naville View Post
    If you've got some time to spend, you can try to check their warcraftlogs. If they are good at raiding they may not perform well in M+ however, but if they are bad at raiding, that's a no-go.

    If you can't find any logs and raider.io doesn't show any raiding experience, that means they only do M+. In this case, if they have good score and good gear, just check for their number of timed runs. If it's high enough, that means they aren't boosted, and a M+ exclusive player. Chances are high they're fine.
    I know I can check out of the game sometimes and somehow but seeing the value in game at a glance would be soooooooo much better XD

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.
    Dont get me wrong, I like padding on AoE just as much as every stupid DPS too. But my fastest keys were done with mediocre 3x DPS doing what it needs to make the run fast.

    * switchting to priority targets instead of AoE padding the most dense mob groups
    * sacrificing DPS cooldowns to keep the tank cooldosn/healer downtime for difficult pulls low, even before a huge AoE pad-O-rama
    * using UTILITY GCDs if needed instead of AoE finishing a huge pull with 3 dead peoples because you did nothing but pad on the meters, helping the tank to survive a pull is ususally not great for damage done on a difficult pull

    Not sure what your experience is, but affix and dungeon mechanics are the things that cost most time in M+ and you need a very high key level that pure DPS matters.

    15+2 can be done with 3.5k DPS and you can rip a key by 20 minutes with 6k from every DPS.
    Last edited by Ange; 2021-04-20 at 09:22 AM.
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  6. #566
    I dont understand the scientists in this forum.

    So, my fury warrior necrolord is 3 months old. I have pugged 90% of my M+.
    Got 54 timed +10, 30 timed + 15, 1483io with 3 +17 and rest +16.

    Does that say I'm bad at the game? Just because I started late and been pugging all my way?

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    No reason to do +15s each week, just spam the +14s if you really need the vault, one of my characters has only 16 15+s dungs done lmao.
    In my experience 14 keys are used a lot to boost low geared alts and/or with very unexperienced players, so it will take longer to start the runs and longer for the run itself.

    Thats not something I would do for 10/10 keys per week.
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    @Something Wicked
    type /played now and tell me how long have you played on lvl 60.
    Show me your raider io page.

    I am telling you, I put effort into my keys, even with what little time I have I am 4 keys away from KSM. I told you how I messed up my chance at 15 ascension, how I acted, what I lacked, what I am going to do about it.

    What did you do? YOUR POST was before mine, you called people like me "ELITIST DOUCHEBAG".
    Look, I am 35, married for 7 years now, full time job. I can hardly do 1 key a week. I achieved this much in such a short play time. 11days total since NOVEMBER release.

    Anybody whining about ilvls or raider.io at this point in the expansion is SIMPLY bad. Here I said it in a more polite way.
    Or do you excel everything in real life? If people point out and tell you, here here this and this was bad about the thing you did, or about you,... Do you take it as valid criticism and try to improve or call them you are all elitist jerks? Totally same. Difference is I learn and put effort to it. while you are telling people using IO are shitheads and you are such an awesome person but they do not invite you.

    I can show you 23482347320 videos on youtube about those so called I am diamon but my teammates... videos. You are like them. BAD. Simply BAD.
    I am the opposite incarnation of everything you say.
    I am casual I do not have time > me to, still OCE top arms warrior.(HC, no time for mythic)
    I am casual I cannot get invite to m+ > me to, I worked my own key to 15. Raider io is that way --> go check it.
    I am actually good but do not get invited > well no shit, I think I am a good player as well but you have to prove it to others. Why they have to believe you?
    I waited 2 hours for an invite still no luck > trying being an arms warrior (bottom of dps in m+) I gave up on the idea of asking for invites long ago. I form my own group.

    You can be really good at the game but I assume
    You are bad at organizing your stuff, bad at setting priorities.
    Good at accusing other successful players, good at avoiding responsibility.

    Nobody carried me. Nobody got my gold.
    What I achieved, I achieved through my own fucking effort.

    Logs are there, raider.io is there. 11days played.
    I bet you my ass on it that you have more played than me. All these people whining.

    And let say if you have really like 4-5 days played since November, well not going above 10 is really normal. There are tons of people with more experience.
    <eats popcorn while the toxic raging goes on and on, even though I have it on good authority this guy isn't a prime example of a toxic player>

    I truly am amused. No where in these last few exchanges did I say a word about my own capabilities or experiences, nor what anyone else has done or was capable of doing. Not a word.

    In essence all I said is that it's sad people like you -- and yes, clearly like you given your last handful of posts on the subject, where you're ranting on calling everyone a crybaby and shit player who, somehow, is bad if they've played longer than you OR less than you simultaneously -- continue to bitch and moan about the "bad" players rather than about Blizzard for creating this environment in the first place.

    Yes, toxic players have always existed. But Blizzard burying one of the better gear progression routes in the game behind not only timed runs, but also punishing everyone in the group if there's a single failure (or someone just leaving, even for completely innocuous reasons) really amped it up to 11. And just like in real life where rich people sit back and laugh at the moronic lower classes bitching about immigrants and poor people, Blizzard is sitting back and laughing at the "elitsts" bitching about the "casuals" and "baddies" as if they somehow created the situation. Which you're personifying time and time again in your posts.

    And what does Blizzard do about it? They throw a shit-ton of fuel on the fire with this revelation.

    Yet, somehow, this is me being a "crybaby" even though not once -- not once -- did I say I don't do mythic runs, or any of the other garbage you keep trying to not-so-humble brag about while espousing your vitriol.

    It truly is entertaining. Sad beyond belief, but entertaining nevertheless.
    Last edited by Something Wicked; 2021-04-20 at 10:10 AM.

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Thats way to much work and reminds me of pre-RAIDER.IO with wowprogress checks in the browser.

    => just cancel everyone who is behind the curve in KEYS-DONE. Less than 30/40 +15 timed runs at this late stage of the game? Just cancel for your weekly vault, no reason to waste your time. There is no way to min-max the vault with 10/10 ~15 keys and not gaining timed key statistics, the sheer gearlevel increase over time and the weeks with easier affixes (PUSH WEEKS) makes it impossible to stay at a fixed metric for dungeons done.
    people need to understand that the raider.io addon doesn't track all that data from some ingame interface. It gets that data from the armory page which for some weird reason shows more than what you can find out ingame. All that raw data is then put into an addon and updated a few times per day. It's basically just a huge excel file. And the more data they put into that "excel file", the bigger it will be.

    For example, I'd love to see the "3 best keys for that dungeon" to be shown. It's a huge difference whether someone is 15, 14, 14 or 15, 10, 5. But that would mean they'd have to put basically 3 times as much data into that file and make the file size bigger. And I don't know if they have limitations in that regard. I'm not an addon creator.

    The best news of this "Blizzard M+ score system" is that we will finally have an ingame interface for that and addons like rio will be able to use it as a baseline and make it better without the need to be a huge spreadsheet that needs to be updated daily.

    So while it might be this clunky way of looking people up on the rio website now, in 9.1 or later the addon could be so much better because of the ingame system that we won't have to do that anymore to get the detailed information

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Dont get me wrong, I like padding on AoE just as much as every stupid DPS too. But my fastest keys were done with mediocre 3x DPS doing what it needs to make the run fast.

    * switchting to priority targets instead of AoE padding the most dense mob groups
    * sacrificing DPS cooldowns to keep the tank cooldosn/healer downtime for difficult pulls low, even before a huge AoE pad-O-rama
    * using UTILITY GCDs if needed instead of AoE finishing a huge pull with 3 dead peoples because you did nothing but pad on the meters, helping the tank to survive a pull is ususally not great for damage done on a difficult pull

    Not sure what your experience is, but affix and dungeon mechanics are the things that cost most time in M+ and you need a very high key level that pure DPS matters.

    15+2 can be done with 3.5k DPS and you can rip a key by 20 minutes with 6k from every DPS.
    My experience as healer is that a run with low dps usually fail while a run with good dps may fail but less likely because random mistakes or even wipes can be covered (to an extent of course) by mobs and bosses going down fast.

    I do recognize that it’s better doing less dps than dying but especially in Tyr weeks AND in pugs, with low dps bosses won’t simply go down fast enough for the healer to cover mistakes and massive dotting from bosses for a long time. It’s not a oom issue, it’s bosses that will simply overdamage your healing.

    Take the third SD boss for example, in Tyr weeks if she doesn’t die shortly after the fourth “my patience is wearing thin” max, it’s a wipe 99% of time unless the other players have a way to refill to full theirselves.

  11. #571

    Uhh

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    At last! Proper in-game ranking system
    Hopefully it will be like PvP rankings and M+ players actually get something neat.

    Rio won't go away tho, it's still a nice tool to see where you stand in the world for your class
    They said that they were using a formula similar to raider.io but please they are two different organizations don’t conflate the two

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    I think my favorite part about this whole conversation is that the elitist douchebags are constantly blaming the more casual players for being shitty players (even when they're not). When it's all -- literally all -- of Blizzard's fault for adding timed content that actively punishes you for not finishing it. And for no good reason either; in fact, all it does is double-down on the toxic behavior people have hated about those same types of people since the beginning. ("Go go go!!!" "OMG it's all ur fault not mine I'm pro!!!!!")

    In a real world analogy, it's like all the idiots (and Republicans) blaming everything on immigrants and the poor.

    And guess what: This is only going to make it worse.
    I think my favorite part is all these poor innocent casuals like you calling everyone else toxic, while you call them douchebags and throw insults every post. Now you bring politics into it? Lol take a look at yourself and see if maybe you are the one being toxic

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    No reason to do +15s each week, just spam the +14s if you really need the vault, one of my characters has only 16 15+s dungs done lmao.
    yes reason because peopel who are actually good at this game dont run +14 only run higher. why ? because at this stage of exapnasion they have been 226 + or months now and dont even farm GV anymore.

    those who are doing +14 now are mostly desperates who want to get KSM done before tier is over - good players didnt need gear since like january or maaybe february if they slacked. why woudl you do +14 with liek 215 itlv people when you could have been doing like +18-20 with 226+ people.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I think my favorite part is all these poor innocent casuals like you calling everyone else toxic, while you call them douchebags and throw insults every post. Now you bring politics into it? Lol take a look at yourself and see if maybe you are the one being toxic
    , he unironically said toxicly, all the while ignoring the actual meat of the post he was replying to. And even more all the while still oblivious to the fact that the person he was replying to, again, never said a word about his own accomplishments or what anyone else was capable of doing.

    "T'is not Blizzard's fault," they decree without realizing it, "it's the baddies and casuals! Burn them, burn them all! Err, I mean, 'git gud' instead!"
    Last edited by Something Wicked; 2021-04-20 at 10:34 AM.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    <eats popcorn while the toxic raging goes on and on, even though I have it on good authority this guy isn't a prime example of a toxic player>

    I truly am amused. No where in these last few exchanges did I say a word about my own capabilities or experiences, nor what anyone else has done or was capable of doing. Not a word.

    In essence all I said is that it's sad people like you -- and yes, clearly like you given your last handful of posts on the subject, where you're ranting on calling everyone a crybaby and shit player who, somehow, is bad if they've played longer than you OR less than you simultaneously -- continue to bitch and moan about the "bad" players rather than about Blizzard for creating this environment in the first place.

    Yes, toxic players have always existed. But Blizzard burying one of the better gear progression routes in the game behind not only timed runs, but also punishing everyone in the group if there's a single failure (or someone just leaving, even for completely innocuous reasons) really amped it up to 11. And just like in real life where rich people sit back and laugh at the moronic lower classes bitching about immigrants and poor people, Blizzard is sitting back and laughing at the "elitsts" bitching about the "casuals" and "baddies" as if they somehow created the situation. Which you're personifying time and time again in your posts.

    And what does Blizzard do about it? They throw a shit-ton of fuel on the fire with this revelation.

    Yet, somehow, this is me being a "crybaby" even though not once -- not once -- did I say I don't do mythic runs, or any of the other garbage you keep trying to not-so-humble brag about while espousing your vitriol.

    It truly is entertaining. Sad beyond belief, but entertaining nevertheless.
    Cool blog post.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    , he unironically said toxicly, all the while ignoring the actual meat of the post he was replying to. All the while still oblivious to the fact that the person he was replying to, again, never said a word about his own accomplishments or what anyone else was capable of doing.

    "T'is not Blizzard's fault," they decree without realizing it, "it's the baddies and casuals! Burn them, burn them all!"
    Are you ok? Like honestly?

    And can you link your character so we can see what kind of experience you do have? Last person I talked to, I found out they don't even own shadowlands and have just been making up all of their "experience ". Would be nice to know what experience you have

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Are you ok? Like honestly?

    And can you link your character so we can see what kind of experience you do have? Last person I talked to, I found out they don't even own shadowlands and have just been making up all of their "experience ". Would be nice to know what experience you have
    , he again, unironically, stated. Also yet again apparently completely oblivious to the fact that the person he was talking to never once made any claims about their own accomplishments or those of anyone else, but instead was saying that the toxic atmosphere behind this is largely due to Blizzard, not the players.

    "But clearly anyone who hates radio.io MUST be a casual baddie who can't play the game," he desperately tried to rationalize to himself. "No one can possibly hate people being total cunts to other players for any other reason!"

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    <eats popcorn while the toxic raging goes on and on, even though I have it on good authority this guy isn't a prime example of a toxic player>

    I truly am amused. No where in these last few exchanges did I say a word about my own capabilities or experiences, nor what anyone else has done or was capable of doing. Not a word.

    In essence all I said is that it's sad people like you -- and yes, clearly like you given your last handful of posts on the subject, where you're ranting on calling everyone a crybaby and shit player who, somehow, is bad if they've played longer than you OR less than you simultaneously -- continue to bitch and moan about the "bad" players rather than about Blizzard for creating this environment in the first place.

    Yes, toxic players have always existed. But Blizzard burying one of the better gear progression routes in the game behind not only timed runs, but also punishing everyone in the group if there's a single failure (or someone just leaving, even for completely innocuous reasons) really amped it up to 11. And just like in real life where rich people sit back and laugh at the moronic lower classes bitching about immigrants and poor people, Blizzard is sitting back and laughing at the "elitsts" bitching about the "casuals" and "baddies" as if they somehow created the situation. Which you're personifying time and time again in your posts.

    And what does Blizzard do about it? They throw a shit-ton of fuel on the fire with this revelation.

    Yet, somehow, this is me being a "crybaby" even though not once -- not once -- did I say I don't do mythic runs, or any of the other garbage you keep trying to not-so-humble brag about while espousing your vitriol.

    It truly is entertaining. Sad beyond belief, but entertaining nevertheless.
    I also enjoy the doubling down on politics. Are you the poor immigrant in this story and we are the evil upper class? I'm trying to follow along with you

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    , he again, unironically, stated. Also yet again apparently completely oblivious to the fact that the person he was talking to never once made any claims about their own accomplishments or those of anyone else, but instead was saying that the toxic atmosphere behind this is largely due to Blizzard, not the players.

    "But clearly anyone who hates radio.io MUST be a casual baddie who can't play the game," he desperately tried to rationalize to himself. "No one can possibly hate people being total cunts to other players for any other reason!"
    I'm trying not to make assumptions. You said I dont know your experience. So I asked for it. Now you are saying no. I dont understand you and im trying to.

    And don't imply I'm a cunt

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I also enjoy the doubling down on politics. Are you the poor immigrant in this story and we are the evil upper class? I'm trying to follow along with you

    I'm trying not to make assumptions. You said I dont know your experience. So I asked for it. Now you are saying no. I dont understand you and im trying to.
    It's okay, I figured you couldn't understand the point when you kept repeatedly asking for my in-game stats despite -- for the third time in the last ten minutes -- repeatedly reminding you that I never once made any claims about my accomplishments, besmirched anyone for theirs, or otherwise anyone's stats up for any reason whatsoever.

    And don't imply I'm a cunt
    I didn't. Not even remotely. Reading comprehension is a thing native speakers still have trouble with, apparently.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    It's okay, I figured you couldn't understand the point when you kept repeatedly asking for my in-game stats despite -- for the third time in the last ten minutes -- repeatedly reminding you that I never once made any claims about my accomplishments, besmirched anyone for theirs, or otherwise anyone's stats up for any reason whatsoever.


    I didn't. Not even remotely. Reading comprehension is a thing native speakers still have trouble with, apparently.
    You have spent the entire thread "besmirching" others for theirs. You have repeatedly called others elitists with no basis.

    And you quite literally put words into my mouth by inserting quotation marks with your bizarre narration you have been doing.

    Could you explain this section right here?

    "But clearly anyone who hates radio.io MUST be a casual baddie who can't play the game," he desperately tried to rationalize to himself. "No one can possibly hate people being total cunts to other players for any other reason!"

    What point were you trying to convey here? Please help me as I'm clearly having trouble with the reading comprehension. Cause to me it sounds like you're implying that I think you hate rio cause you're bad. And you think ppl like me are cunts to other players. But please help me to understand what you actually meant when you put quotes around words and acted as though these are my thoughts

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