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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    This is just plain embarrassing. The tooltip gives you the total score, your best dungeon, your best of the chosen dungeon, the number of dungeons done in a given difficulty bracket, and the score on your designated main.

    It sounds like you only look at score and have completely missed the other info in the tooltip.

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    Nice movement of the goalposts. First it was best of a specific dungeon, now it's the history of a specific dungeon.
    Plain embarrassing is your lack of reading comprehension. Read my first post I said (that was waaaaaaaaaaaaay back) until you understand what I said.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53132214

    Not my fault people cut in the middle of conversation without bothering to read the thread.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    This is just plain embarrassing. The tooltip gives you the total score, your best dungeon, your best of the chosen dungeon, the number of dungeons done in a given difficulty bracket, and the score on your designated main.

    It sounds like you only look at score and have completely missed the other info in the tooltip.

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    Nice movement of the goalposts. First it was best of a specific dungeon, now it's the history of a specific dungeon.

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    And that's how you get a bunch of guys standing in fire. Gratz. You just killed your key.
    A dude with an average 4.5k dps over 20+ timed dungeons won’t stand always in the fire, dead dps cannot dps.

    He wouldn’t have that average if he always died.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    A dude with an average 4.5k dps over 20+ timed dungeons won’t stand always in the fire, dead dps cannot dps.

    He wouldn’t have that average if he always died.
    There is a difference between dying and taking more dmg than necessary/interrupting/helping the tank kite. Maybe even save CD for a difficult pull. If dps were a better metric than r.io to judge people, well then r.io wouldn't exist and people would use wcl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    So instead of helping him learn how to be better you just watched him fail time and time again. What a great friend you are.
    You are always jumping to conclusions, which cant possible well informed. Some people dont care enough to learn/get better.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    And another example of someone voluntarily choosing to misinterpret a conversation.

    If you bothered to read what I've said, I mentioned that there's always been toxic players. But that mythic+ dungeons, with their punishing of players for failing and their timers, have ramped that up, and with raider.io pretty much making it the norm now. Hence why so many people absolutely loathe both aspects of the game, especially with Blizzard choosing to embrace those toxic elements more and more strongly with every addition to the game.

    Even more amusingly is how people like you seem to think I'm specifically attacking you, when in reality I'm talking about people like this guy. See my previous post about the Nazi statement parallel. That's on you, not me.



    Nice blog post.
    bro i don't even know who you are.
    Infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2021-04-22 at 05:13 AM.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    There is a difference between dying and taking more dmg than necessary/interrupting/helping the tank kite. Maybe even save CD for a difficult pull. If dps were a better metric than r.io to judge people, well then r.io wouldn't exist and people would use wcl.

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    You are always jumping to conclusions, which cant possible well informed. Some people dont care enough to learn/get better.
    Average dps is OF COURSE not the best metric exactly as rio itself is not the best metric, but it’s the simplest way to measure a dps.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Average dps is OF COURSE not the best metric exactly as rio itself is not the best metric, but it’s the simplest way to measure a dps.
    Lol, you are trolling, right? R.io is way better than dps to measure the skill of a player.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Lol, you are trolling, right? R.io is way better than dps to measure the skill of a player.
    I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

    Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

    Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.
    Me as a Rogue in Freehold.

    Tank: "Hi Rogue, can you please stealth to the pig to start the RP event?"

    Me: "Nope! I need to maintain my average DPS score!"

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    I'm extremely sad that this tool used to justify elitism and toxicity is being formalized, but i've long since realized that this war has been over for a while.

    I just don't pug anymore. Have fun with your toxic m+ pugging.
    You do realize tho that the whole goal of rio us to make it less toxic, right? Successfull runs usually do not end in flamewars.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    There is a difference between dying and taking more dmg than necessary/interrupting/helping the tank kite. Maybe even save CD for a difficult pull. If dps were a better metric than r.io to judge people, well then r.io wouldn't exist and people would use wcl.

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    You are always jumping to conclusions, which cant possible well informed. Some people dont care enough to learn/get better.
    good dps can though kill stuff before mechanics happen . thats why if you have group with good dps you only need like 1 max 2 interupts per pack . if dps is bad - oh boy then problems happen .

    ill give you example from last night - i did run in what would be sub optimal group - aka 2 hunters and ele shammy - but because of 2x wild spirirts every 2 minutes trash melted down when 2 people were bursting for 25k consistently

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

    Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.
    It is actually not useful data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    good dps can though kill stuff before mechanics happen . thats why if you have group with good dps you only need like 1 max 2 interupts per pack . if dps is bad - oh boy then problems happen .

    ill give you example from last night - i did run in what would be sub optimal group - aka 2 hunters and ele shammy - but because of 2x wild spirirts every 2 minutes trash melted down when 2 people were bursting for 25k consistently
    I never meant that dps does not matter, just that the overall dps during a dungeon does tell you very little.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Me as a Rogue in Freehold.

    Tank: "Hi Rogue, can you please stealth to the pig to start the RP event?"

    Me: "Nope! I need to maintain my average DPS score!"
    I don’t see any freehold here. BUT in any case it won’t be 10 dungeons out of 50 done in which your dps was lower due to a particular mechanics to make the overall difference.

    I would need it not to pick a 3.5k dps in a 14, if you’re 4K+ it’s all the same, if I think I need a rogue for whatever reason I won’t pick a 4.3k frost dk instead of a 4K rogue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    It is actually not useful data.

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    I never meant that dps does not matter, just that the overall dps during a dungeon does tell you very little.
    It tells a lot. If your dps is consistent it means that you are able to do dps AND other things like interrupting AND not standing in bad stuff AND avoid avoidable damage. If it’s low and you’re geared like the high dps dude it means you are failing in one/two or all three of those 3 categories.

    OF COURSE it’s not a 100% reliable data but as well as rio it’s better than the actual nothing.

    Basing on MY healer experience 90% of my non timed runs at any level were because of dps not dpsing enough for whatever reason.
    Last edited by chiddie; 2021-04-21 at 02:12 PM.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    It tells a lot. If your dps is consistent it means that you are able to do dps AND other things like interrupting AND not standing in bad stuff AND avoid avoidable damage. If it’s low and you’re geared like the high dps dude it means you are failing in one/two or all three of those 3 categories.

    OF COURSE it’s not a 100% reliable data but as well as rio it’s better than the actual nothing.

    Basing on MY healer experience 90% of my non timed runs at any level were because of dps not dpsing enough for whatever reason.
    That will decrease low rio people chances to get into low key dungeons even more.
    And rio gives you experience score. DPS is very situational, if your healer dies on PF last boss 3 times, your dps for the dungeon will be trash, same as if your tank only pulls 1 pack at the time. Your dps score would have to rely on "biggest key dps" which would mean a lot of padding and if it doesn't happen - people would leave.
    How do you measure healers against it? What if you run with prot paladin or bdk? Their healing will be as high as healers. Or do you want to rate it on dps? Tanks with DPS builds = healers can dps. Imagine being a paladin and having to compete against venthyr paladins lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

    Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.
    in all the threads I have read, you shift the blame to something else just because you had some good runs with premade party at some point in the past. "We timed it - it means it's not me who fuck up pugs" while in truth it probably was your premade carrying you hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Yep, and that is what is wrong with rio as number simply turn people into vultures while whole game mode into rat race.
    Im not getting accepted -> i push arbitrary score -> I get accepted bit more -> I want to push higher -> but im not getting accepted -> i need to push other dungeons

    and the circle continues. The only way out from this madness is to make a network of friends.

    So now it's basically turning people into numbers. Instead of providing basic data (like top X best dungeons) and giving more filters in finder.
    People treat other people as a score and then suggesting that they could have more data.. but when someone says that data is there you say it's not there because you have to put any effort and you rather turn people into simple numbers than do that. Self induced problem.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I don’t see any freehold here. BUT in any case it won’t be 10 dungeons out of 50 done in which your dps was lower due to a particular mechanics to make the overall difference.

    I would need it not to pick a 3.5k dps in a 14, if you’re 4K+ it’s all the same, if I think I need a rogue for whatever reason I won’t pick a 4.3k frost dk instead of a 4K rogue.
    Yes so this is how you would use it. But what about the rest of the players? You don't see how this could create further problems?

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    good dps can though kill stuff before mechanics happen . thats why if you have group with good dps you only need like 1 max 2 interupts per pack . if dps is bad - oh boy then problems happen .

    ill give you example from last night - i did run in what would be sub optimal group - aka 2 hunters and ele shammy - but because of 2x wild spirirts every 2 minutes trash melted down when 2 people were bursting for 25k consistently
    While this is true in essence it's mostly good for doing 4-5 pack bl pulls with combust, it is very far from truth on normal pulls. You must have excellent rotation of cc and interrupts because you don't out-gear +20, you get better at doing what you have to do.

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Yes so this is how you would use it. But what about the rest of the players? You don't see how this could create further problems?
    No. Now good people with lower rio and good dps are declined simply because of lower rio. I see you’re 100 rio points below your colleague, bye. You maybe do double dps than your colleague but I can’t know it and I won’t take the risk. If I instead see that they have awesome dps despite lower rio I will give you a chance for sure.

    Now people only look at rio. The higher, the better. If we could have more parameters to measure a player global rio could be less important and give ppl more chances.

    The real issue would be that really bad people/boosted would have even lass chances to be picked than today but I’m not sure it’s 100% bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itishowitis View Post
    That will decrease low rio people chances to get into low key dungeons even more.
    And rio gives you experience score. DPS is very situational, if your healer dies on PF last boss 3 times, your dps for the dungeon will be trash, same as if your tank only pulls 1 pack at the time. Your dps score would have to rely on "biggest key dps" which would mean a lot of padding and if it doesn't happen - people would leave.
    How do you measure healers against it? What if you run with prot paladin or bdk? Their healing will be as high as healers. Or do you want to rate it on dps? Tanks with DPS builds = healers can dps. Imagine being a paladin and having to compete against venthyr paladins lol.

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    in all the threads I have read, you shift the blame to something else just because you had some good runs with premade party at some point in the past. "We timed it - it means it's not me who fuck up pugs" while in truth it probably was your premade carrying you hard.

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    People treat other people as a score and then suggesting that they could have more data.. but when someone says that data is there you say it's not there because you have to put any effort and you rather turn people into simple numbers than do that. Self induced problem.
    I’m not blaming anyone. I posted my experience.

    My experience brought me to think that runs almost always fail because of dps not dpsing enough so I would like to have a better measure besides rio. I’m not saying it’ll be easy to implement and it will solve all the issues. It would just be another indicator. Feel free to think I am the problem instead... it’s not a problem.

  17. #657
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    It's almost like some in game score isn't a good indicator of how good a player is. It's almost like people are fixated on a random number to tell how good a player is instead of just queing for content, clearing content and being happy you could clear content.. Why people are so fixated on a meaningless score of how good someone supposedly is is beyond me. It's a bit childish imo.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    It's almost like some in game score isn't a good indicator of how good a player is. It's almost like people are fixated on a random number to tell how good a player is instead of just queing for content, clearing content and being happy you could clear content.. Why people are so fixated on a meaningless score of how good someone supposedly is is beyond me. It's a bit childish imo.
    Without the score, people would just use the Armory to determine your value to the group anyway. Why are you so insecure about people who clear difficult content wanting to have an easy way to determine whether an applicant to their group is qualified?

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    No. Now good people with lower rio and good dps are declined simply because of lower rio. I see you’re 100 rio points below your colleague, bye. You maybe do double dps than your colleague but I can’t know it and I won’t take the risk. If I instead see that they have awesome dps despite lower rio I will give you a chance for sure.

    Now people only look at rio. The higher, the better. If we could have more parameters to measure a player global rio could be less important and give ppl more chances.

    The real issue would be that really bad people/boosted would have even lass chances to be picked than today but I’m not sure it’s 100% bad.

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    I’m not blaming anyone. I posted my experience.

    My experience brought me to think that runs almost always fail because of dps not dpsing enough so I would like to have a better measure besides rio. I’m not saying it’ll be easy to implement and it will solve all the issues. It would just be another indicator. Feel free to think I am the problem instead... it’s not a problem.
    The issue is that overall dps numbers tend to be more strongly correlated to other factors (how big the tank pulls, what key level you are playing, even the dps of your party members) than actual ability of the player. I can do 9k overall in one 19 and 7k in the same dungeon in the next. Overall dps just isn't a good metric. Obviously if can't play your class you will perform worse on the meters, but the actual number tells you nothing useful by itself (unlike rio!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    It's almost like some in game score isn't a good indicator of how good a player is. It's almost like people are fixated on a random number to tell how good a player is instead of just queing for content, clearing content and being happy you could clear content.. Why people are so fixated on a meaningless score of how good someone supposedly is is beyond me. It's a bit childish imo.
    Well, mostly because it isn't meaningless. It isn't designed to tell how good someone is, but rather how experienced. Experience correlates strongly to performance, but it isn't a perfect correlation.

  20. #660
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Without the score, people would just use the Armory to determine your value to the group anyway. Why are you so insecure about people who clear difficult content wanting to have an easy way to determine whether an applicant to their group is qualified?
    Not insecure, just think it's stupid to worry about what other's gear score is instead of just playing the game. Besides gearscore like this new rio thing is just a number. It doesn't show how good a player is. You won't know that until you actually group up with them.

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