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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I have the opposite opinion. It creates nice progression path you can indirectly compete against your rivals. It adds a lot to the game and a lot of people would have quit ages ago, including myself, if it wasn't for m+
    I definitely agree with you there. The only people I know still playing WoW are M+ players.

  2. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    100% of the people I've asked have said no. So with absolutely confirmation, I can safely say no, I am not. 100% is a super big number. The biggliest.
    Why would you insert my name in a quote I never said?

  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I have the opposite opinion. It creates nice progression path you can indirectly compete against your rivals. It adds a lot to the game and a lot of people would have quit ages ago, including myself, if it wasn't for m+
    Indeed. The people left are those who like doing m+

  4. #804
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    And remember kiddies, 50% is a bigger number than 15%. So clearly that means it's the majority of players. No obvious attempt to spin numbers here. 50% is big number guys!
    I was not spinning any numbers lol. I really don't care what % of the playerbase does m+. Neither should you. My post was mainly in response to the person talking about how challenging grinding KSM was. Was just stating that for ppl that actually try, half of them achieve it.

  5. #805
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I definitely agree with you there. The only people I know still playing WoW are M+ players.
    Yeah, I currently only play WoW for m+. Same with the tank in my group.

    We're both quite annoyed that we have to raid to get the sun king trinkets

  6. #806
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    But aside from that it turns M+ into rat race.
    It's always been a rat race. Gearscore, achievement linking, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I really dislike what this game has become. eSport M+, ranks and ratings. The fuck is this shit lol.
    Overall here's the problem: There is challenging content in WoW that players want to engage in but only with players who can meet that challenge and succeed. There is (currently) no good and quick metric in which to judge applicates when looking through PuGs.

    Sure you say you're a good player and can do the challenging end-game content but anyone can say that. How do we verify these statements? At the minimum, r.io shows other players that at the very least, a player has the experience and was skilled enough (or carried) through a certain level of dungeons. Add in checking number of dungeons done in time (which the addon provides) allows you to filter towards those that have done plenty of keys versus those who might have been carried a few times.

    Ultimately that's the heart of the issue - we want to do challenging content with players equal (or exceeds) our level of skill and knowledge and rarely do we want to do that same challenging content with players of lesser skill or knowledge because the probability of failure increases with the later group compared to the former.
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  7. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    It's always been a rat race. Gearscore, achievement linking, etc.



    Overall here's the problem: There is challenging content in WoW that players want to engage in but only with players who can meet that challenge and succeed. There is (currently) no good and quick metric in which to judge applicates when looking through PuGs.

    Sure you say you're a good player and can do the challenging end-game content but anyone can say that. How do we verify these statements? At the minimum, r.io shows other players that at the very least, a player has the experience and was skilled enough (or carried) through a certain level of dungeons. Add in checking number of dungeons done in time (which the addon provides) allows you to filter towards those that have done plenty of keys versus those who might have been carried a few times.

    Ultimately that's the heart of the issue - we want to do challenging content with players equal (or exceeds) our level of skill and knowledge and rarely do we want to do that same challenging content with players of lesser skill or knowledge because the probability of failure increases with the later group compared to the former.
    I never understood the mentality of rio haters. If they're so good and can totally clear the content, why haven't they just run it already lol. I feel like taking the time to level your own key when u can't seem to get invited, would be a much better use of their time instead of crying about rio

  8. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post

    Overall here's the problem: There is challenging content in WoW that players want to engage in but only with players who can meet that challenge and succeed. There is (currently) no good and quick metric in which to judge applicates when looking through PuGs.

    Sure you say you're a good player and can do the challenging end-game content but anyone can say that. How do we verify these statements? At the minimum, r.io shows other players that at the very least, a player has the experience and was skilled enough (or carried) through a certain level of dungeons. Add in checking number of dungeons done in time (which the addon provides) allows you to filter towards those that have done plenty of keys versus those who might have been carried a few times.

    Ultimately that's the heart of the issue - we want to do challenging content with players equal (or exceeds) our level of skill and knowledge and rarely do we want to do that same challenging content with players of lesser skill or knowledge because the probability of failure increases with the later group compared to the former.
    You'recorrect which is personally why I prefer solo challenges. Mage tower for example. And proving grounds was a much better model because you can't buy a carry which are rampant these days.

  9. #809
    Pandaren Monk Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    You'recorrect which is personally why I prefer solo challenges. Mage tower for example. And proving grounds was a much better model because you can't buy a carry which are rampant these days.
    you can buy a carry for solo content... it just requires them to log on to your account and play... i have a friend who used to do that for rl money in arena... he'd play their accounts until they got the rating they wanted... sure... he eventually got banned for it but it's possible to get boosts by people playing your account instead of you...

  10. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    you can buy a carry for solo content... it just requires them to log on to your account and play... i have a friend who used to do that for rl money in arena... he'd play their accounts until they got the rating they wanted... sure... he eventually got banned for it but it's possible to get boosts by people playing your account instead of you...
    Yeah... some people do that. The question is what's the better system. A vast majority of players are way more likely to buy an in game group carry with gold than give access to their account for real money / violate TOS. Thus making solo challenges way more indicative of player skill than a group rating.

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Thus making solo challenges way more indicative of player skill than a group rating.
    I agree, but WoW is a MMO, and largely designed around group / team activities. In all of my years playing, since Beta and E3, I cannot recount a time when WoW was marketed as the ultimate single player experience.

  12. #812
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    This is the standard experience of pugging +14-15 keys.

    Imo chat toxicity is mostly a reaction to "gameplay toxicity". If people play like the biggest morons and waste everyone's time in a difficulty where they should know better, then they'll also encounter toxicity a lot. The solution to a lot of chat toxicity is to get better at the game. Not all of it, of course, but a lot of it.
    My suspicion as well. People who behave poorly around others often find others react poorly, or with "toxicity" to them. Whenever someone says, "most people are toxic", I take that to mean, "I'm toxic and people wont tolerate my BS".

    I try to treat others well in whatever game I'm playing and find that most people respond positively back to me, regardless of game.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  13. #813
    Stood in the Fire Guilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I never understood the mentality of rio haters. If they're so good and can totally clear the content, why haven't they just run it already lol. I feel like taking the time to level your own key when u can't seem to get invited, would be a much better use of their time instead of crying about rio
    I'll never understand it either. Wanting people at your skill or knowledge level is not elitist. Especially if you're doing keys exceeding the weekly 14/15 ezmode garbage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    If anyone still believes Sylvanas is responsible, you've not been paying attention.

  14. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Ff14 is so good, that it gives you plenty of time to post here talking about how much you hate wow? Lol.

    If its the worst expansion, take a break from game, more importantly take a break from posting here. Go to a ff14 fan forum and spend energy talking abt the game u do play
    This statement is a dumb thing to say. No matter how good a game is, people will take breaks from it. That means that he/she will have time to go elsewhere and post if need be. Like is it suppose to be soooooooooooo good that I can't or shouldn't post some where else in my free time......Like WTF
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    Of all the third-party addons and external website features that Blizzard could have copied and implemented into WoW, raider.io score has to be one of the worst.

    The system literally breeds elitism and toxicity. Having it become an official game feature will just be downright damaging to the game's community.

    I don't use rio because I want to. I use rio because I've had a plethora of really bad players join my keys, and even then it's a metric that is not very reliable to gauge a player's skill. Especially since all it takes is a few WoW tokens to legitimately purchase boosts and wallet warrior your way to KSM...
    This is a you problem. If you don't know how to use a tool properly it is hardly the tools fault. Thousands of people successfully use the tool every day. Read the FAQ.

    At this point Blizzards implementation of a score is meaningless. I think they have a random queue in store for mythic + and the official score is the first step.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by guru-gamer View Post
    I agree, but WoW is a MMO, and largely designed around group / team activities. In all of my years playing, since Beta and E3, I cannot recount a time when WoW was marketed as the ultimate single player experience.
    The solo challenge is used as a way to show individual skill when you put yourself into the market of player groups.

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    The solo challenge is used as a way to show individual skill when you put yourself into the market of player groups.
    Unless the challenge includes every permutation of M+ mechanics / affixes it really isn't comparable. This isn't a single player fighting game like Street Fighter, and being able to react and coordinate appropriately is important.
    Last edited by guru-gamer; 2021-05-03 at 10:16 PM.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    My suspicion as well. People who behave poorly around others often find others react poorly, or with "toxicity" to them. Whenever someone says, "most people are toxic", I take that to mean, "I'm toxic and people wont tolerate my BS".

    I try to treat others well in whatever game I'm playing and find that most people respond positively back to me, regardless of game.
    It's like the saying: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

    These kinds of players simply don't realize that "being mean to someone" isn't the only form of toxic behavior in a group environment.

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    It's like the saying: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

    These kinds of players simply don't realize that "being mean to someone" isn't the only form of toxic behavior in a group environment.
    No, it's like saying that if people are assholes to you all the time, it might be that you are the asshole. Running into assholes in an unlucky day - sure, but all the time? No.
    Leavers can be toxic, because it can be a form of griefing, but leaving a toxic pug, a false advertisement pug (i.e. push/fast weekly) and finding yourself wiping 3 times before you can reach second boss or obviously a carry run when leader invites his guildie who is underperforming hard and it was not disclosed - that is not toxic.

  20. #820
    Can any anti-rio player tell me what's the alternative for Rio if I want to get KSM solo (pugging)? How do I make groups?
    Just invite first person with enough ilvl and hope he knows the dungeon and his class? Is that it?

    Because before I started to use RIO (legion) my M+ experience was horrible, and most of my groups were a failure and now I'm getting KSM every season and 96% of my runs are timed and can also use my score on Alts, having great way to progress them even despite low ilvl.

    Removing RIO/score system is what would create elitism because it would shoehorn M+ back into premade group activity...

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