In-game Raider.io score

[ellieg]

A "crazy river of tears" is a good indicator that there is a problem.

Plenty of people who forget that others may not be as super mega ultra awesome at the game as they are and insist that people are just whining for no reason.

Plenty of people forget that if you're not good at the game, not all content is for them.

[Necromantic]

If you can join a m+ group, you can form one yourself. Pray tell what is stopping someone from doing that?

Seen plenty of stories of people trying to make a group with their own keys and getting turned down and even called names over it with screenshots.

Lots of variables that can happen. I'm sure some of the stories are fake but I will also bet many are not.

Show me where I wrote that you could/should be "rude to people"? I sure hope you aren't twisting my words.
Being abusive to people is against the ToS, that goes both for people that make their own group and to people that apply to groups.

Not inviting people to your group isn't rude.

You're right, not inviting people isn't rude but some of the comments people have openly admitted to saying to people who simply applied for a key are the worst and then have the audacity to insinuate that the guy who simply applied is the toxic one. Or how we talk about people who simply apply on the forums. "That guy wasn't up to my standards and he had the nerve to apply for my key?! How much more toxic can you be??!!" We have some very cockeyed ways of thinking in our community.

Plenty of people forget that if you're not good at the game, not all content is for them.

Just because they're not now does not mean they can't/won't be.

[faunski]

And nobody is or ever has forced anyone to invite them to their groups. I don't know where this logical fallacy ever came from.

Right now you have a system where there are no guidelines and people can invite whoever they want based on their own criteria. To step further away from said system would require some sort of external factor/force to deny inviting whoever you want. That means the only alternative would essentially be forcing people be invited or something similar.

Again, what is it that people are actually wishing for? No matter whether there is rio or another scoring system people will still not randomly invite people, the guys who are picky now are still going to be picky and everyone is going to have a harder time deciding who to invite, yet nothing changes. For something to change you'd have to insert something that forces people to play with each other, essentially a matchmaking tool for content that was never meant to be matchmakeable.

[ellieg]

Seen plenty of stories of people trying to make a group with their own keys and getting turned down and even called names over it with screenshots.

Lots of variables that can happen. I'm sure some of the stories are fake but I will also bet many are not.



You're right, not inviting people isn't rude but some of the comments people have openly admitted to saying to people who simply applied for a key are the worst and then have the audacity to insinuate that the guy who simply applied is the toxic one. Or how we talk about people who simply apply on the forums. "That guy wasn't up to my standards and he had the nerve to apply for my key?! How much more toxic can you be??!!" We have some very cockeyed ways of thinking in our community.



Just because they're not now does not mean they can't/won't be.

Words can't hurt you if you got past 5th grade. Sucks someone was mean to someone else but nothing is stopping them from trying again.

[erifwodahs]

There can be various solutions but when the same solution is parroted over and over, I don't blame them for dismissing it, especially when it's been established multiple times for a long time that "push your own key" is not feasible for everyone else. A homeless man begging for money/food and someone wants to say "just go get a job!" thinking "it's JUST THAT SIMPLE!" but not knowing all the circumstances surrounding it. The man may have lost everything in some kind of house explosion that rendered him unable to work. Not everyone has a perfect life and can go on a linear path.

So why is joining a community/guild/add people to the friend list? Let me guess, guilds require scheduling, communities have set groups and also you can't add people because you have social anxiety. Then there is push your own keys! But that doesn't work because [insert a reason here] Also not all guilds require scheduling, especially social guilds who advertise themselves as super casual helping guilds/communities. But then people also say "but we keep failing keys with them"

It's more like that same homeless man was sleeping on the street begging for money while across the street there is a charity who accommodates homeless people with bed and shower. and small breakfast Also they are looking for a part time cleaner/receptionist, but homeless man is like "fuck, bed is old, shower is common and I am vegetarian so I can't eat breakfast"
Some people can't be helped, because they want world to change for them

[Necromantic]

Right now you have a system where there are no guidelines and people can invite whoever they want based on their own criteria. To step further away from said system would require some sort of external factor/force to deny inviting whoever you want. That means the only alternative would essentially be forcing people be invited or something similar.

Again, what is it that people are actually wishing for? No matter whether there is rio or another scoring system people will still not randomly invite people, the guys who are picky now are still going to be picky and everyone is going to have a harder time deciding who to invite, yet nothing changes. For something to change you'd have to insert something that forces people to play with each other, essentially a matchmaking tool for content that was never meant to be matchmakeable.

I've said twice in this thread alone, add a form of matchmaking. You can still just invite whoever you want like before if you don't like that system. Have some kind of preparation solo dungeon of increasing difficulty. We had something "kinda sorta" like this in BfA with horrific visions which can get harder and harder. Once you clear certain content alone, you can queue for a higher number key.

People being picky now is part of the problem. While they're "within their rights", Blizzard has stated that was not the intent to have people only want to "pick" those who grossly overgear the said content.

The system I suggested, everyone wins. Those who want to set odd standards can continue to do so. The other system wouldn't hurt them in the slightest.

- - - Updated - - -

So why is joining a community/guild/add people to the friend list? Let me guess, guilds require scheduling, communities have set groups and also you can't add people because you have social anxiety. Then there is push your own keys! But that doesn't work because [insert a reason here] Also not all guilds require scheduling, especially social guilds who advertise themselves as super casual helping guilds/communities. But then people also say "but we keep failing keys with them"

It's more like that same homeless man was sleeping on the street begging for money while across the street there is a charity who accommodates homeless people with bed and shower. and small breakfast Also they are looking for a part time cleaner/receptionist, but homeless man is like "fuck, bed is old, shower is common and I am vegetarian so I can't eat breakfast"
Some people can't be helped, because they want world to change for them

You're right on all accounts of why someone may or may not join one of those things.

And you can't rearrange my homeless story to fit your own narrative. That's not how analogies work. Plus, yours still goes back to the "everyone is fully capable" mindset that simply isn't true and even those who say that it is don't actually believe it. They just want to make others feel inept.

[erifwodahs]

A "crazy river of tears" is a good indicator that there is a problem.

Plenty of people who forget that others may not be as super mega ultra awesome at the game as they are and insist that people are just whining for no reason.

So wait, you want a auto-que for m+ which was unlockable by doing challenging solo content. But then say this. So what do you want? You can't want auto-que locked behind challenging content, so you can que for even more challenging content, but then also allow players who are not ready for that content to pass the challenge? What.

[Necromantic]

So wait, you want a auto-que for m+ which was unlockable by doing challenging solo content. But then say this. So what do you want? You can't want auto-que locked behind challenging content, so you can que for even more challenging content, but then also allow players who are not ready for that content to pass the challenge? What.

What's wrong with what I said? If someone is not able to complete the solo content, they're not ready for a higher key. It's the game showing them that they're not ready, not some silly person who expects them to have all M15 gear just to enter a M4 dungeon or something equally silly.

Where or how did you come up with reading that as allowing people who are not ready to pass?

[erifwodahs]

You're right on all accounts of why someone may or may not join one of those things.

And you can't rearrange my homeless story to fit your own narrative. That's not how analogies work. Plus, yours still goes back to the "everyone is fully capable" mindset that simply isn't true and even those who say that it is don't actually believe it. They just want to make others feel inept.

Ok, so maybe if you can't do any of those and you don't meet requirements to do everything solo, MAYBE that is not for you?

I did not rearrange your analogy, I gave you mine. And I do believe that we should have inclusivity, which we have by existing LFD and LFR, random BG and Skirmish Arenas.

[Necromantic]

Ok, so maybe if you can't do any of those and you don't meet requirements to do everything solo, MAYBE that is not for you?

I did not rearrange your analogy, I gave you mine. And I do believe that we should have inclusivity, which we have by existing LFD and LFR, random BG and Skirmish Arenas.

That's a pretty rigid way of thinking. That's like saying if you don't like other people, video games are not for you since other people play video games.

Yes, you did clearly rearrange. You took a homeless man analogy and twisted it up to paint your own narrative. If you wanted your own, you'd start from scratch. Either way, the point mine made still stands. Not everyone has a perfect life and can go on a linear path. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to enjoy things too.

You're welcome to believe we should not have inclusivity. Very few people in our RIO community are objective and I'm happy to be one of the ones who are. I'm fine with outsiders coming in and experiencing content.

[T-34]

People being picky now is part of the problem. While they're "within their rights", Blizzard has stated that was not the intent to have people only want to "pick" those who grossly overgear the said content.

Could you be so kind and link where Blizzard has stated what you claim here?

And by the way when you pick people for your M+ gear level is one of the least important things that decides whom you invite. Experience is what counts the most.

[erifwodahs]

What's wrong with what I said? If someone is not able to complete the solo content, they're not ready for a higher key. It's the game showing them that they're not ready, not some silly person who expects them to have all M15 gear just to enter a M4 dungeon or something equally silly.

Where or how did you come up with reading that as allowing people who are not ready to pass?

Well you said that people crying about MT challenge and Torghast challenge were right to do so instead of getting better, and me "super mega good" player does not understand that not everyone is as capable as I am.

And again, we are all free to set our standards to enter our group. Nothing wrong with that because EVERYONE is a keyholder. If for some reason made it so where only select people could create groups - that would be wrong, as that goes against equal opportunity.

[T-34]

What's wrong with what I said? If someone is not able to complete the solo content, they're not ready for a higher key. It's the game showing them that they're not ready, not some silly person who expects them to have all M15 gear just to enter a M4 dungeon or something equally silly.

What stops that person who is "persecuted" by this "silly person" to make his own group for a M4 and invite other people who have gear similar to his own?
Why shouldn't that person do what everybody else can do and make his own group with his own, much more inclusive, criteria?

[Necromantic]

Could you be so kind and link where Blizzard has stated what you claim here?

And by the way when you pick people for your M+ gear level is one of the least important things that decides whom you invite. Experience is what counts the most.

Again, you're welcome to only pick people who've done the dungeon 500 times and not someone trying to better themselves. Nobody is stopping you or asking to stop you! You can cherry pick to your hearts content. The suggestions do not affect you in the slightest yet you're so aggressively opposed to them. Why? Because you don't want anyone but you to have rewards?

- - - Updated - - -

Well you said that people crying about MT challenge and Torghast challenge were right to do so instead of getting better, and me "super mega good" player does not understand that not everyone is as capable as I am.

And again, we are all free to set our standards to enter our group. Nothing wrong with that because EVERYONE is a keyholder. If for some reason made it so where only select people could create groups - that would be wrong, as that goes against equal opportunity.

If a challenge is out of tune, that's one thing and many challenges in the game were nerfed because they ended up being more challenging than intended.

And I've said a dozen times already, set your own ridiculous standards for your own group, nobody is saying you can't.

- - - Updated - - -

What stops that person who is "persecuted" by this "silly person" to make his own group for a M4 and invite other people who have gear similar to his own?
Why shouldn't that person do what everybody else can do and make his own group with his own, much more inclusive, criteria?

Please read the reasons in the responses above, not going to keep copy/pasting the same answer for the same people.

[T-34]

You're welcome to believe we should not have inclusivity. Very few people in our RIO community are objective and I'm happy to be one of the ones who are. I'm fine with outsiders coming in and experiencing content.

I am 100% in favour that everyone should have equal rights to run their own key. Just as Blizzard allows us to do now..
I am 100% in favour that everyone should have equal rights to invite whomever they want to their key. Just as Blizzard allows us to do now
I am 100% in favour that everyone should be able to do enter an M+, regardless of their ilvl. Just as Blizzard allows us to do it now.

The game can't get any-more inclusive as it is now.

[Necromantic]

I am 100% in favour that everyone should have equal rights to run their own key. Just as Blizzard allows us to do now..
I am 100% in favour that everyone should have equal rights to invite whomever they want to their key. Just as Blizzard allows us to do now
I am 100% in favour that everyone should be able to do enter an M+, regardless of their ilvl. Just as Blizzard allows us to do it now.

The game can't get any-more inclusive as it is now.

Yes it can. Matchmaking is a perfect example.

[chiddie]

I don't care if you can solo stuff as that says nothing about your ability to interact with a group and overcome content in a group setting.
It might be "un-biased", but it is much more irrelevant than your raider.io-score/dungeon experience, as that shows your experience in doing GROUP content.

By the way nothing stops you or anybody else now from inviting people based on whether they have bronze, silver, gold or even endless in proving grounds.
But people prefer to invite people based on their experience in doing the challenging GROUP content instead of inviting them based on their experience of doing SINGLE PLAYER content.

You are not searching for people that can overcome a content.

You are searching for people that have ALREADY overcome that content.

That’s a thin difference but it’s THE difference.

[T-34]

Again, you're welcome to only pick people who've done the dungeon 500 times and not someone trying to better themselves. Nobody is stopping you or asking to stop you! You can cherry pick to your hearts content. The suggestions do not affect you in the slightest yet you're so aggressively opposed to them. Why? Because you don't want anyone but you to have rewards?

I'll ask you again: Could you please be so kind and link me where Blizzard writes what you claimed:

"People being picky now is part of the problem. While they're "within their rights", Blizzard has stated that was not the intent to have people only want to "pick" those who grossly overgear the said content."

I'll be most obliged if you could do so. You are one of the few "objective persons" here. To quote your own words...

[ellieg]

The game will not be better with automated queues for m+. It will someoneone work in m+2-m+5. Then anything higher will have a much higher fail rate. You won't have the class setups u like. U might not have the cov for the dungeon. Thete will be an extreme lack of tanks and a low supply of healers. Dps queues will reach absurd lengths.

The forums will be flooded with 2 kinds of posts. 1. Screenshots of dps sitting in queues with estimated wait length of 15 hours. "Real nice feature blizz, Hurrrrr!". And 2. "This content is way too hard. My groups fail over 50% of the time. This needs nerfed NOW!". If you want to know why blizz hasn't added a queue function in the 3 xpacs m+ has been around, its because of these 2 points.

[erifwodahs]

You're welcome to believe we should not have inclusivity. Very few people in our RIO community are objective and I'm happy to be one of the ones who are. I'm fine with outsiders coming in and experiencing content.

And I said I am for inclusivity. I just don't believe in equal outcome, I believe in equal opportunity and supporting people who don't have that. WoW does really good at that with cross realm playing guild and communities - not everyone has as much time or has enough abilities to do so. There have been deaf people clearing CE content in commless raids, there are plenty of super casual guilds and if it does not suit you - you can do the content in via auto-matchmaking systems so you are not excluded from content for your inabilities.
My groups mage started mid-SL, he only did 17s up until last week until he reached out to my friend if we were looking for extra people, as we were pugging 2-3 people all the time. Now he is 2k score.