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  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    The same way gear can be represented by numbers which makes it extremely boring. There is no fluid dps/survi slider.
    However people skill cannot be represented by a number and that is what is completely wrong with rio.
    Rio shows experience with content. It doesn't show your "skill", but someone who has done a a certain dungeon on +15 many times is most likely competent, and most of the time competent is more than good enough.
    When you pug your primary interest is to avoid the non-experienced entitled players, secondly your interest is to find people who have a proven record of doing the content you are going to do. And lastly you can only dream of getting a getting a super-skilled player.

    So people that are using raider.io as a tool to filter people are people that are conservative and prudent with their play-time. Or in other words they are people that buy boring family cars and who always play low-risk low-rewards games and never high-risk high-rewards games.

    Nothing stops people from using other criteria to pick which groups they join or whom they invite. You can pick a more "slot-machine" strategy if that suits you.
    If that makes you happy, then good for you.

    But trying to "force" other people to change the way they like to pick people they play with is not only a waste of time, but it is also quite rude and will only make the people that "you" try to "force" to behave in another way more set on not playing with people that try to "force" them to play in a particular way.
    Last edited by T-34; 2021-05-04 at 07:10 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Can I ask you, how did nobody do gear checks if Gearscore addon was the "bane" of WotLK? Bank inspections was a thing and TBC was full "300res min" premades.
    Vanilla had same bank roof inspections, but it was way more rare because how noob most of people were. Fast forward to WotLK, game is 4yo and community started to apply it's filters and in the later patches even "link Light of Dawn" was a thing for 25 HC pugs in ICC and I really don't buy your


    try taking someone blindly into a +15 not even looking at ilvl and not looking at rio and then good luck.

    Edit: OR invite someone into arena with no xp and some crap gear and let me know how fast you made it to 1.8k
    Gear score was terrible too. Then again, I’ve know more who thought that was worse than rio.

    I do remember people doing the “link achievement” thing but that wasn’t too common. Slightly different though. People did that to only invite people who had actually completed the content. Rio can show you’ve done similar content and you could still get taken.

    I’ve played many games with all kinds of systems and I still stand by D3’s method as the best. It’s unbias, doesn’t give control to poopheads, doesn’t alienate or discriminate.

    Wishful thinking.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    No, cause i said your logic if flawed.

    You need to understand how massive the game is and how irrelevant your presence is, when you actually realize that, you will understand the problem.

    The 99% considers AoTC/KSM as this "goal" to achieve.

    Do you know the reality of those things and how irrelevant they are for an actually skillful player, do you understand what a snoozefest those content are?

    Can you comprehend that there are depending on the period of the game, up to 50k-100k-300k people online daily in EU LFG with more qualifications than you therefor of course the xxx.xx1 player wont get accepted easily?

    And you can realize, in those thousands of players, lets say 100.000 players, there are literal 20 different ranks of actual game "skill", and the rank 5 vs the rank 20 is literally night and day in terms of skill and knowledge and you are even lower than that in terms of Period of Game = Achievements/Ilvl/R.io?

    This is what people dont understand and thats why you are being told, "Create your own groups and find a guild", cause you are not anyone special or you dont have any proof that you are special to be given the "Green light" to do whatever you want in the pug world.

    The Holy Paladin with 3k r.io in every season before, and 5 cutting edges, and 2 gladiator titles has the green light when a new expansion launches can join whatever group he wants with his qualifications, and he doesnt even need to cause he is probably surrounded by similar players.

    Your account with "500 transmog runs" and "Normal Throne of Thunder" the 6th month of its life as the only relevant achievements, does not have the green light to pug anything.

    I know you still cant accept it, cause "ITS A GAME" or whatever else excuse, and thats why you will always be facing this problem since you refuse to adapt to the problem.
    Dude again, it’s not you are either 3000 rio or “Gratz you are now 60 with 140 ilvl”.

    I fully understand why I’m not being picked even if I could/should, I simply would like another solution besides “push your own key”.

    Which one? No idea but I’m not a dev, it’s not supposed to be my job.

  4. #904
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    If you’re going to flat-out lie, go waste someone else’s time.
    You must be a troll. Full stop. We're all wasting time here but the difference is you're spewing nonsense. The D3 false equivalence is the biggest indicator of that. There is no soloing a 20 key to show you can do it with a group of people and it shouldn't be that way either. D3 doesn't have the holy trinity that MMOs do.

    What other MMOs have you played? Blade n Soul was 10x worse than WoW when it came to trying to pug. That's just one example.

  5. #905
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    However people skill cannot be represented by a number and that is what is completely wrong with rio.
    Rio has never ever indicated skill. Only anti-rio people equate rio to skill indicator. If someone uses it as skill indicator - that's wrong wait to look at it.

    And it was deffo a rat race. You had to have 5.2k GS to do ToGC, where if you had full BiS gear from it you could only reach something like 5.5k

  6. #906
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Dude again, it’s not you are either 3000 rio or “Gratz you are now 60 with 140 ilvl”.

    I fully understand why I’m not being picked even if I could/should, I simply would like another solution besides “push your own key”.

    Which one? No idea but I’m not a dev, it’s not supposed to be my job.
    Its not their job also, their job is to release the content every 6 months, what you do with that is your problem.

    If you refuse to join a community with an equal mindset, thats your problem.

    If you refuse to invest time in order to get out of the cesspool of lower skilled players, thats your problem.

    It has nothing to do with the developers, no matter what system they introduce, the 0.01% will stay only play with each other into tournaments/world firsts, the 0.09% will still sell boosts to the 95%, the 0.9% still will play with each other and doesnt care about the other 4%, and the 4% will keep being a cesspool of a mix of crybabies, forum posters and players that cant accept they are not good enough to enter the 1%.

  7. #907
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilford View Post
    You must be a troll. Full stop. We're all wasting time here but the difference is you're spewing nonsense. The D3 false equivalence is the biggest indicator of that. There is no soloing a 20 key to show you can do it with a group of people and it shouldn't be that way either. D3 doesn't have the holy trinity that MMOs do.

    What other MMOs have you played? Blade n Soul was 10x worse than WoW when it came to trying to pug. That's just one example.
    And there we go, the classic “troll” response. Not taking the bait. Have a good day.

  8. #908
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    And there we go, the classic “troll” response. Not taking the bait. Have a good day.
    The classic I have nothing to say so have a good day I'm not taking the bait response. Sad.

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Rio has never ever indicated skill. Only anti-rio people equate rio to skill indicator. If someone uses it as skill indicator - that's wrong wait to look at it.

    And it was deffo a rat race. You had to have 5.2k GS to do ToGC, where if you had full BiS gear from it you could only reach something like 5.5k
    Actually, that’s not true. Many of the Rio people have used words synonymous with skill to tell someone why they’re not invited.

    Both sides are just as guilty.

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I fully understand why I’m not being picked even if I could/should, I simply would like another solution besides “push your own key”.

    Which one? No idea but I’m not a dev, it’s not supposed to be my job.
    As long as WoW retains its core concept, which it has had since the beginning, that end-game content is always group content and that grouping for said content is 100% in the hands of the players then the only solution is either to make your own group, that is to become a leader, or make yourself "attractive" enough for other players, read leaders, to pick you.

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    And there we go, the classic “troll” response. Not taking the bait. Have a good day.
    You are comparing a system made for a ladder that shows nothing but "I did 34244535 runs until zombies and Pylon spawned properly so i can rank up" to a system made to simply show people if you have the basic knowledge of M+ scaling you arent a complete waste of time in two completely different genres.

    Its literally comparing amateur snooker night scoring to Cricket World Championship.

    Maybe you are not trolling, but you also show your do not have the knowledge to have an opinion on the matter, as to why that is up to you to figure out, i already know why.

  12. #912
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I fully understand why I’m not being picked even if I could/should, I simply would like another solution besides “push your own key”.
    I agree there should be more solutions. Ignore people who toss the “push your own key” parrot response. Most of them are not objective by any metric and reinforce the stigmas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    You are comparing a system made for a ladder that shows nothing but "I did 34244535 runs until zombies and Pylon spawned properly so i can rank up" to a system made to simply show people if you have the basic knowledge of M+ scaling you arent a complete waste of time in two completely different genres.

    Its literally comparing amateur snooker night scoring to Cricket World Championship.

    Maybe you are not trolling, but you also show your do not have the knowledge to have an opinion on the matter, as to why that is up to you to figure out, i already know why.
    Says I don’t know what I’m talking about while listing how ranking up does not work.

    I’ll leave that there.

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I agree there should be more solutions. Ignore people who toss the “push your own key” parrot response. Most of them are not objective by any metric and reinforce the stigmas.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Says I don’t know what I’m talking about while listing how ranking up does not work.

    I’ll leave that there.
    And this is why you are never taken seriously and you are called a troll, cause despite your obvious low skill and knowledge which you repeatedly come back to show, you cant even accept that you are clueless

  14. #914
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    It’s unbias, doesn’t give control to poopheads, doesn’t alienate or discriminate.
    But this is MANUAL group content. You don't auto-que for dungeons. Also you have your own key.

    Sure, if you add a system which allowed you to que for dungeons automatically - go ahead and add some hard solo content filter. Problem is that doing other content won't help you in WoW. I am ex-mythic raider, I did mage-tower when it was current and I am non-meta tank with over 2k score now. Throw me into a +21, I will be fine, throw me into Mythic Sire and I will fuck everything up and vice versa, I could be a 10/10M tank and completely flop in +20, why? Because some solo challenge did not prepare me for those exact things. It's just checked that I am not brain dead.
    What else you could do? "Complete all +14s to que for +15" that sounds exactly what community is doing on it's own.

    Ask to add these systems. You don't have to take Raider.IO and manual grouping away to have something which enables some auto-matchmaking. Imagine being unable to go into HC raid with your guild because you have not done full normal clear. That would be some nice backlash there.

    Also again: Guilds are the same filter for people. You "discriminate" people by not inviting noobs to a mythic raiding guild. You don't invite people with no experience into rated PvP groups/guilds
    Last edited by erifwodahs; 2021-05-04 at 07:37 PM.

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its not their job also, their job is to release the content every 6 months, what you do with that is your problem.

    If you refuse to join a community with an equal mindset, thats your problem.

    If you refuse to invest time in order to get out of the cesspool of lower skilled players, thats your problem.

    It has nothing to do with the developers, no matter what system they introduce, the 0.01% will stay only play with each other into tournaments/world firsts, the 0.09% will still sell boosts to the 95%, the 0.9% still will play with each other and doesnt care about the other 4%, and the 4% will keep being a cesspool of a mix of crybabies, forum posters and players that cant accept they are not good enough to enter the 1%.
    It indeed is their problem since it’s them that had the “genial” idea of introducing M+ in this form (basically the timer, let’s not joke each other more please, 99% of “issues” are caused by the presence of a timer).

    It is indeed their problem if majority of people get to a point in which they can only use their key or they cannot progress (tanks aside, maybe).

    And having reached myself almost 1200 rio with soooo little spare time means that the major difficulty is not doing 15, is GETTING into 15 even if you have the prereqs (no, prereqs should be the same you should have to move from 10 to 11, asking for 1300 rio for a 15 is just bad game design).

    Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand your pov, it’s simply not mine

    Peace.

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    And this is why you are never taken seriously and you are called a troll, cause despite your obvious low skill and knowledge which you repeatedly come back to show, you cant even accept that you are clueless
    I referred to how you get into random games in D3. You went off talking about ranking up and pylons. You’re talking about something entirely different. And a troll calling someone a troll is nothing anyone would bat an eye at, so why would you consider it anything special?

    I see, you’re a sock puppet. Should have known.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    But this is MANUAL group content. You don't auto-que for dungeons. Also you have your own key.

    Sure, if you add a system which allowed you to que for dungeons automatically - go ahead and add some hard solo content filter. Problem is that doing other content won't help you in WoW. I am ex-mythic raider, I did mage-tower when it was current and I am non-meta tank with over 2k score now. Throw me into a +21, I will be fine, throw me into Mythic Sire and I will fuck everything up and vice versa, I could be a 10/10M tank and completely flop in +20, why? Because some solo challenge did not prepare me for those exact things. It's just checked that I am not brain dead.
    What else you could do? "Complete all +14s to que for +15" that sounds exactly what community is doing on it's own.

    Ask to add these systems. You don't have to take Raider.IO and manual grouping away to have something which enables some auto-matchmaking. Imagine being unable to go into HC raid with your guild because you have not done full normal clear. That would be some nice backlash there.

    Also again: Guilds are the same filter for people. You "discriminate" people by not inviting noobs to a mythic raiding guild. You don't invite people with no experience into rated PvP groups/guilds
    I know it is. I was telling how a normal manual grouping feature was turned into grouping by forcing a person to prove themselves using a solo in-game challenge.
    Last edited by Necromantic; 2021-05-04 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Realized he was a sock puppet

  17. #917
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I agree there should be more solutions. Ignore people who toss the “push your own key” parrot response. Most of them are not objective by any metric and reinforce the stigmas.
    If I understand you correct then you are saying that some/few/a lot of people pick other people that they want to play with in a "wrong way".
    So how do you suggest to "fix" this without denying people the freedom to pick whom they play with?

  18. #918
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    It indeed is their problem since it’s them that had the “genial” idea of introducing M+ in this form (basically the timer, let’s not joke each other more please, 99% of “issues” are caused by the presence of a timer).

    It is indeed their problem if majority of people get to a point in which they can only use their key or they cannot progress (tanks aside, maybe).

    And having reached myself almost 1200 rio with soooo little spare time means that the major difficulty is not doing 15, is GETTING into 15 even if you have the prereqs (no, prereqs should be the same you should have to move from 10 to 11, asking for 1300 rio for a 15 is just bad game design).

    Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand your pov, it’s simply not mine

    Peace.
    Again, you use the term "Game design", when its something that isnt even in the game keeping you out because other people use it wrongly and you have fallen into the trap, which is why i keep saying you are in the cesspool and refuse to improve.

    Lets start with reeducating.

    1)M+ was not introduced to be pugged.

    2)Yes, better players pugged them so community copied them.

    3)The 99% isnt supposed to pug, end of story.

    4)You arent allowed to say 3, so lets rephrase it, "Its only natural the lower skilled 99% has problems pugging".

    5)Raider.io was created because Blizzard freebie gear systems are ruining the 1% pugging world after some time has passed into the active patch cycle.

    6)1% uses it correctly, 99% uses it to block each other from progressing.

    7)99% blames the 1% because as always the last 17 years, they are clueless about what is going on.

    Solution? Find a god damn community that accepts your skill level and time commitment.

  19. #919
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I agree there should be more solutions. Ignore people who toss the “push your own key” parrot response. Most of them are not objective by any metric and reinforce the stigmas.
    There are solutions:

    Join a casual guild
    Join a m+ community
    Add people who you have successful runs with and ask them if they want to do some keys later - In the last 2 years I added like 30 people and every week I get a whisper or two without even reaching out to those people myself.

    But hey, people don't look for solutions. Those who do - they find them because it's certainly not super secret. On the other hand complainers will find a problem for every solution

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    If I understand you correct then you are saying that some/few/a lot of people pick other people that they want to play with in a "wrong way".
    So how do you suggest to "fix" this without denying people the freedom to pick whom they play with?
    There’s no right or wrong. There’s the normal path and the super-comfortable path.

    Unfortunately if you keep playing you will be slowly but steadily redirected to the super-comfortable path, where you need to show your 4 masters for a job that requires high school max.

    Maybe it’s not wrong but from a certain pov it’s not right either.

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