In-game Raider.io score

[Relapses]

A personal opinion can be a complaint. @otaXephon said they don’t enjoy going past 15 because the there is a lack of reward but also because doing it with random pugs who might be good or not is masochistic. And that’s the thing: you don’t have to play with randoms. Guess what, in a premade group you can push keys with the same players and have fun doing the hard keys even without a reward. Because you’re pushing yourself to the limit, playing with people you like while sitting with them in voice.

And I disagree that there is no reward for doing those higher keys. It has the strongest reward system that exists: intrinsic rewards.

Let me slow this down for you: I know the reward exists. I just don't care to deal with it. You're not enlightening anybody with the revelation that it's easier to push IO in a premade group with voice comms.

[PaladinBash]

I mean it's a pointless score that's not even in the game as it is and this is just another example of catering to that speedrunning zoomer crowd. Just run your own keys or do them with your mates. It's not only more fun and effective that way (dramatically so in both cases), none of you need a stupid fucking score for it. Let the kids that care about this dumb shit have their silly fun. It means absolutely fucking nothing at all to anyone but them. Let them carry on about their mini game like arena kids do. Nobody gives a shit what they do. People just push 1800 or 2k or whatever gives the mogs they want and fuck off. Nobody cares that some try-hard has 3k rating in 2s but him. It's the same with keys.

What is Blizzard gonna do? Have a mount or something from it? Big deal, they already do. +15s are effortless to do this late into the patch. So what if normal players like me got it months ago if Joe Casual can get it now? Or Jimmy Nolife gets it a week or two before me? I didn't even go out of my way for it, I just did whatever 15s people had each week til we were missing 1 and were like "yo lets get that mount" and we did. Easy as fuck. No extra effort. What matters if there's a score? It's effectively the same shit.

[chiddie]

A personal opinion can be a complaint. @otaXephon said they don’t enjoy going past 15 because the there is a lack of reward but also because doing it with random pugs who might be good or not is masochistic. And that’s the thing: you don’t have to play with randoms. Guess what, in a premade group you can push keys with the same players and have fun doing the hard keys even without a reward. Because you’re pushing yourself to the limit, playing with people you like while sitting with them in voice.

And I disagree that there is no reward for doing those higher keys. It has the strongest reward system that exists: intrinsic rewards.

Guess what: “LF 1 proper tank + 3 proper dps immediately available for any key I want at any level I want available whenever I login”.

Feel free to point me to an EU guild or community that can guarantee that.

Pugs will ALWAYS be a thing for people that don’t live in-game.

[Wuusah]

Guess what: “LF 1 proper tank + 3 proper dps immediately available for any key I want at any level I want available whenever I login”.

Feel free to point me to an EU guild or community that can guarantee that.

Pugs will ALWAYS be a thing for people that don’t live in-game.

It's rather the other way round. You don't need to play a ton to play with your mates. Pugging is the thing you do when you play MORE than your mates. If you have not that much time to play and you are pugging, then you are doing something very wrong.

[chiddie]

It's rather the other way round. You don't need to play a ton to play with your mates. Pugging is the thing you do when you play MORE than your mates. If you have not that much time to play and you are pugging, then you are doing something very wrong.

I was of course exaggerating but it’s not unusual having to rely upon pugs depending on how much and when you play. If you don’t have a more or less fixed play schedule, you will probably have to pug most times even if you are in a big/proper guild.

I am in a supposedly “proper” guild and I pugged almost all my way to 14, having probably also to pug most if not all the final steps for KSM.

[Wuusah]

I was of course exaggerating but it’s not unusual having to rely upon pugs depending on how much and when you play. If you don’t have a more or less fixed play schedule, you will probably have to pug most times even if you are in a big/proper guild.

I am in a supposedly “proper” guild and I pugged almost all my way to 14, having probably also to pug most if not all the final steps for KSM.

ok and how much effort did you put into getting some guild members together? Playing with mates is like raiding but on a smaller scale. You have a raid schedule. Did you try making an M+ schedule? Or a "let's play together at that day around that time" schedule for whatever content or game you are playing? Obviously you won't have everyone ready to play together with you whenever you login. You gotta make plans. It's not so much different as making plans to go out clubbing or making plans to just meet up, drink a beer and have a chat or making plans to play some sports together. Pretty much everyone playing WoW is an adult these days and adults can't just spontaneously drop everything in their life and play games with their friends.

it's pretty much impossible to find a premade group...

It really isn't.

[chiddie]

it really is... none of them have ever lasted... i tried it roughly 70 times since bfa by now... most of the times people just stopped playing wow...

a few groups i stopped playing with because of racist or sexist talk...

one group i stopped playing with after we had been playing for a while and added each other on facebook and a guy in the group just fucking randomly shows up outside my home...

one group i stopped playing with because the tank had a drinking problem and would destroy the keys when he got too drunk...

one group i stopped playing with because a guy left a key because he got into an argument about some stupid shit... then he got invited back for more keys and eventually left again and that's when i stopped playing with them...

several groups i stopped playing with because of people hitting on me... some of them sent unsolicited dick pics to me as well...

one group fell apart because the healer was sexually assaulted... she and her boyfriend, the tank, stopped playing after that...

one group fell apart because the tank and healer got a kid...

one group i stopped playing with because the tank was on open mic with kids screaming in the background... stressed me out...

one group i noped the fuck out of after they were posting disturbing stuff on discord... i don't want to be involved in that shit if the police eventually gets involved because of something they do...

several groups i stopped playing with because people in them couldn't speak english well enough for me to understand what they were saying...

I would say that you have been probably unlucky but it’s true that people with a fixed group simply seem to not understand or acknowledge how difficult can be “in reality” to... well find a good fixed group.

Everyone would just love to simply login, type “/g hello, I would like to do a SD 12, dps here, waiting for you tank, healer and two dps with 1000 rio at the entrance in 10 mins” but it’s an impossible scenario.

[Coldkil]

It's rather the other way round. You don't need to play a ton to play with your mates. Pugging is the thing you do when you play MORE than your mates. If you have not that much time to play and you are pugging, then you are doing something very wrong.

Not really. Most of the people I know/meet/play with have always the same issues - work takes most of your day and family doesn't let you play every single night. SO the 2 nights I can play are devoted to raids since it's the activity that needs more organization to do. On the other hand, since I can pug M+ they are relegated to whatever free time I have. This is the reason why I'm still working towards KSM - literally I've done next to the absolute minimum runs required to get it.

Pugging has not been that terrible but it's not easy - and absolutely needed for 90% of the playerbase. Sometimes I stay up late after raid and manage to squeeze one M+ with guildies, but I have to do my 4 weekly ones the mornings/weekends cause I have really no other time to do those and at 6AM in the morning I am the only one online lol. I'm sure that I can ask for help and fortunately I know I have people actually willing to give me some, but again the issue is to actually be online and do that.

The problem i have with PUGs is that you spend a lot of time finding a group, and you don't have any clue about if you're gonna bring it home. Happened multiple times to waste an hour finding a group, run the istance for 25 minutes and then someone leaves/crashes/we wipe and everyone goes away. Part of the game unfortunately, not gonna complain about that, but for me it's the equivalent of an entire game session wasted and see you tomorrow.

Anyway, as I said, KSM is just 4 dungeons away, also thanks to Blizzard being slow and I know I'll have to do better next season. So I cannot really complain.

[Kaver]

Firstly, if everyone made their own group there’d be no one to join them.

Sure, but this is far from being an issue right now. So until it is I will still tell people to make there own groups.

[Jazzhands]

Yep, and that is what is wrong with rio as number simply turn people into vultures while whole game mode into rat race.
Im not getting accepted -> i push arbitrary score -> I get accepted bit more -> I want to push higher -> but im not getting accepted -> i need to push other dungeons

and the circle continues. The only way out from this madness is to make a network of friends.

So now it's basically turning people into numbers. Instead of providing basic data (like top X best dungeons) and giving more filters in finder.

You don't seem to understand how R.IO even works. It doesn't just show a score, and the score is often not even considered by most people when forming groups for difficult content, literally all the other information that r.IO gives is significantly more important, and oddly enough along the lines of what you seem to want.

[Wuusah]

I would say that you have been probably unlucky but it’s true that people with a fixed group simply seem to not understand or acknowledge how difficult can be “in reality” to... well find a good fixed group.

Everyone would just love to simply login, type “/g hello, I would like to do a SD 12, dps here, waiting for you tank, healer and two dps with 1000 rio at the entrance in 10 mins” but it’s an impossible scenario.

again, that's not how a fixed group works. You don't just log in and say "anyone running raids?" either, do you? You need to make plans and schedule your M+ playtime. Premade group playing doesn't just spontaneously happen. The occasional spontaneous guild run happens, sure, but playing with the same people and pushing keys doesn't just happen as a byproduct of people being online. You need to put in effort to keep that group around. And not just you but everyone in that group.

I've seen this oftentimes with friends of mine. We play together, everything is fine and everyone is having fun. Then someone stops playing with us, plays some whatever games on their own and then later on complains that "we're not playing games together anymore". Like nah dude, we're still playing together. You just peaced out and started doing your own thing.

[kaminaris]

You don't seem to understand how R.IO even works. It doesn't just show a score, and the score is often not even considered by most people when forming groups for difficult content, literally all the other information that r.IO gives is significantly more important, and oddly enough along the lines of what you seem to want.

Dude, i used rio, extensively, not only I know how it works, I also checked their code. Read the post I was replying to.

[Jazzhands]

Dude, i used rio, extensively, not only I know how it works, I also checked their code. Read the post I was replying to.

The post that basically said "People only look at score"? Which you followed up with something like "Yup, it's too bad RIO doesn't give more info like top X best dungeon"?

You know r.IO like, basically does that right?

[thunderdragon2]

i got a question, will this in game rio be for m+ only or will it should raid progression also like the addon currently does?

[Relapses]

i got a question, will this in game rio be for m+ only or will it should raid progression also like the addon currently does?

Unclear at this point; I don't see why it wouldn't since M+ uses the same group finder as raids.

[Grimbolt]

Sounds like people who cant move out of graphics on the ground needs to find a new MMO. Hehe. How awful.

[Temp name]

he was not wrong there. if they taken 220 pala heal instead you they would time it - because he would be able to carry their mistakes.

i see it all time - groups colapsing in 12-14 because they take undergeared heal/tank due to not wanting to wait those few minutes and then failing.

its ok to want to be carried . everyone who makes group in lfg want that. it just not always work .

in this case 2 people were being boosted - you on undergeared toon and warlock who did bad dps. and it resoulted in untimed key .

Difference is that if I had 220 gear people would still be getting globalled.
If the dps (not just warlock) had kicked things, people wouldn't be getting globalled.

With an actual good group, the healer doesn't matter that much. I just finished a 19 in time, and I'll gladly admit that I'm probably not ready for that, but I did less healing that run that I did in the untimed 16. Like, way less. Around 1/3rd less healing. In a 3 level higher key.

[Alroxas]

So now it's basically turning people into numbers. Instead of providing basic data (like top X best dungeons) and giving more filters in finder.

Funny thing, the addon that r.io makes does that. It shows (in addition to a score), how many dungeons are done in time in multiple brackets (i.e. 5+, 10-14, 15+, 20+), and also the best dungeon (and by how much) that character has done.

Because carrying folks to XYZ r.io score is a thing, now the metric that seasoned r.io players look for is how many dungeons are completed in that bracket. So a player with 1300 r.io score with only 8 15+ done in time (potentially a boosted player), but that other player with a similar 1300 r.io score but over 30 15+ done in time = solid player.

[Firebeast]

raiderio is a cancer in this game....great idea to let it spread

[Something Wicked]

I think my favorite part about this whole conversation is that the elitist douchebags are constantly blaming the more casual players for being shitty players (even when they're not). When it's all -- literally all -- of Blizzard's fault for adding timed content that actively punishes you for not finishing it. And for no good reason either; in fact, all it does is double-down on the toxic behavior people have hated about those same types of people since the beginning. ("Go go go!!!" "OMG it's all ur fault not mine I'm pro!!!!!")

In a real world analogy, it's like all the idiots (and Republicans) blaming everything on immigrants and the poor.

And guess what: This is only going to make it worse.