In-game Raider.io score

[Specialka]

Dude I know what i shows, been using it a lot. Doesn't show what I said I am interested in.

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learn to read.

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Read my comments again.


Since some people have troubles with reading with comprehension.

I am not interested in BEST dungeon. I am not interested in OTHER dungeons.

I am interested in showing best X dungeon runs for a SPECIFIC dungeon.

Wanna play mists, so I want to see their best runs agains THIS DUNGEON. I don't care for numerical score.
I care that one dude played 5 times mists with 15/15/15/15/16
And the other guy did 1/2/3/4/17

Because even if the second guy could have higher score, i'd rather take someone who has done THIS SPECIFIC DUNGEON more times on higher key.

And that is why the addon shows you how many dungeons over 15 the guy has done.

[kamuimac]

And that is why the addon shows you how many dungeons over 15 the guy has done.

but it indeed doest show the info which is much more important. its only showing overall number of runs - so you can have person who run that instance 10 time and erson was carried there once and had 9 runs in easier instances.

other thing which is annoying me personaly is that its stopping to show number of completed 10+ once its starts showing 15+

i would much rather take guys who has like 100+ runs in time in 10-14 and like 5 in 15+ instead guy that has like 5 runs in 10-14 and 10 in 15+ because latter most likely got carried hard while former is most likely alt that is just running dungeons for 226 gear.

other thing which i would love is overall number of runs in time on whole account. why ? i have for example 4 alts that are runing 12-14 bracket - each of them has maybe 40+ runs in time but all of them combined have like 200+ runs in time - so even though their toxic io score is around 1100 they have incomparably more experience for different points of view then random dude that has like 1200 score but just 15 run in time.

this is why i personaly think that toxic io is garbage

[Frozenbro]

but it indeed doest show the info which is much more important. its only showing overall number of runs - so you can have person who run that instance 10 time and erson was carried there once and had 9 runs in easier instances.

other thing which is annoying me personaly is that its stopping to show number of completed 10+ once its starts showing 15+

i would much rather take guys who has like 100+ runs in time in 10-14 and like 5 in 15+ instead guy that has like 5 runs in 10-14 and 10 in 15+ because latter most likely got carried hard while former is most likely alt that is just running dungeons for 226 gear.

other thing which i would love is overall number of runs in time on whole account. why ? i have for example 4 alts that are runing 12-14 bracket - each of them has maybe 40+ runs in time but all of them combined have like 200+ runs in time - so even though their toxic io score is around 1100 they have incomparably more experience for different points of view then random dude that has like 1200 score but just 15 run in time.

this is why i personaly think that toxic io is garbage

Everything you mention is in the page itself, dear god the missinfo as always on the average mmochamp poster lmao, doesnt surprise me tho, its the usual for the average mmochamp user to complain of something they have no idea

[kaminaris]

The addon provides the link to the webpage which is just an alt-tab away if you need it that detailed. The first dude will have a higher number "timed dungeons +15" shown in the addon already.

If you want it in the addon itself hop on their discord and leave #suggestions. They are very active.

I am against scoring system in general if you didn't notice, one part is turning it into antisocial garbage rat race and the other thing is how wildly inaccurate it is especially mid tier ~15s.

First it would require removal of numerical score, which isn't going to happen, second it would require such data in first place but it doesn't exist - i checked, literally checked object variables in game as well as their source code. At least it wasn't present in BfA.

And now that blizz is going to adapt it I suppose we will see the worst implementation ever imaginable - just score.

[Frozenbro]

other thing which i would love is overall number of runs in time on whole account.

They dont do this directly, and the reason why is because having over 100 10+ keystone done on a retri doesnt mean you can have same perfomance on a shadow priest, certainly not if you are a non KSM andy cause being a multi spec player isnt easy, so its understandable to a certain extent why they dont do this, but you can do it manually if you really want to since you can link alts to main character.

[Twdft]

other thing which is annoying me personaly is that its stopping to show number of completed 10+ once its starts showing 15+

Your addon must be broken, mine show timed runs for two brackets

[Noctiphobia]

I really don't know why people keep saying this. Item level has existed since classic, and players were aware of it since classic. Very early on, you had to use an addon to see it displayed in tooltips but it wasn't something people were unaware of. Later they added its display inately in game, you just had to toggle it on in the interface options. Ilvl was not the result of gearscore, and it long predated gearscore, it was always the number that referred to the item budget of gear from day one.

Gearscore died because Blizzard limited server queries, not because ilvl "replaced" it.

ANYWAY, I do think that probably whatever Blizz implements will be much more simplified than raider.io so it wouldn't surprise me at all if people continued to use raider.io addon or site for the full breadth of information.

It took displaying item level in game to really kill gearscore. If they didn't do that, gearscore could have gone the same way as raider.io, i.e. including the whole database with the addon and just refreshing it daily from armory. But since there's (an inferior) replacement in game, there's no incentive to develop that.

[Tziva]

i would much rather take guys who has like 100+ runs in time in 10-14 and like 5 in 15+ instead guy that has like 5 runs in 10-14 and 10 in 15+ because latter most likely got carried hard while former is most likely alt that is just running dungeons for 226 gear.

other thing which i would love is overall number of runs in time on whole account. why ? i have for example 4 alts that are runing 12-14 bracket - each of them has maybe 40+ runs in time but all of them combined have like 200+ runs in time - so even though their toxic io score is around 1100 they have incomparably more experience for different points of view then random dude that has like 1200 score but just 15 run in time.

this is why i personaly think that toxic io is garbage

Those two points don't really lead logically to that conclusion to me.

The first part is information you can absolutely get from raider.io. You can see exactly how many keys people have done in each key range, and you can make those exact discernments. The second part you can get similar info, in that you can see their highest experience across their whole account. It doesn't show precise overall keys easily, but you can see if that rogue that only has a few 2-4 keys in his history has, in fact, run a bunch of +18s on his main. And if you really do want overall keys, you can go and look at their linked characters on the website and tally them there, although that isn't as quick and easy to see.

So, like, if you want that information for runs, you can get it from raider.io. That is precisely the kind of information it provides so when you are building your group you can invite people based on the criteria you think is most valuable/important, whether that is the volume or keys or the difficulty level.

And you really can't get that information from anywhere else except actual API calls from Blizzard since even the armory doesn't really easily show it. So, like, even if those two points did lead to supporting the claim that raider.io is toxic and garbage (and I don't think they do)... how else would you get that information so you can choose the guy that has 100+ runs in the 10-14 range over the guy that has done just a few 15s? That alternatives are there that you would avail yourself of, and what makes them not toxic by comparison?

I think the things that I find most baffling about this entire overarching debate is that the people most adamantly against raider.io are people who are self-professed to never pug (and therefore will interact rarely or never with the system to begin with) or people who clearly have no familiarity with the addon or site and don't understand either what it shows or how that data is used. This is the internet so I shouldn't be surprised people have strong opinions about mundane things, but I really don't understand why people care so much that they will come into these threads and argue about a PuGing tool while simultaneously saying they never ever PuG or take an aggressive stand against something they don't fully understand and don't use. Don't y'all ever step back and ask yourself if maybe that is a little silly?

[Naville]

other thing which is annoying me personaly is that its stopping to show number of completed 10+ once its starts showing 15+

i would much rather take guys who has like 100+ runs in time in 10-14 and like 5 in 15+ instead guy that has like 5 runs in 10-14 and 10 in 15+ because latter most likely got carried hard while former is most likely alt that is just running dungeons for 226 gear.

Just hold the <Shift> key while mousing over some guy and it'll show the full record, lower brackets for dungeons and lower difficulties for raids.

By the way, what problem do you guys have with scores? Isn't that fine to be able to quickly pick players who have a suited experience with the content you want to do? That has nothing to do with beeing "e-sports" or "competitive", even when playing casually and chill on mid-keys, that's better to be with some guys who contribute to the team effort, instead of ruining it.

[Ange]

The addon provides the link to the webpage which is just an alt-tab away if you need it that detailed. The first dude will have a higher number "timed dungeons +15" shown in the addon already.

Thats way to much work and reminds me of pre-RAIDER.IO with wowprogress checks in the browser.

=> just cancel everyone who is behind the curve in KEYS-DONE. Less than 30/40 +15 timed runs at this late stage of the game? Just cancel for your weekly vault, no reason to waste your time. There is no way to min-max the vault with 10/10 ~15 keys and not gaining timed key statistics, the sheer gearlevel increase over time and the weeks with easier affixes (PUSH WEEKS) makes it impossible to stay at a fixed metric for dungeons done.

[Frozenbro]

Less than 30/40 +15 timed runs at this late stage of the game? Just cancel for your weekly vault, no reason to waste your time.

No reason to do +15s each week, just spam the +14s if you really need the vault, one of my characters has only 16 15+s dungs done lmao.

[Kaver]

You're still making generalisations about the pugging population that frankly aren't accurate or fair. I'm not the exception to how PuGs are, and you seem to think I am; I am a reflection to what is very common in the PuGing community.

Just to clarify: Who are you talking about when you say the "pugging population" and "PuGing community"? Because I'm talking about the WoW population as a whole. You might be very common in relation to the "pugging community" you're talking referring to, but you're a rarity in relation to the entire WoW population. Players that are in active guilds and communities are a minority compared to the entire WoW population. There are A LOT of players who play wow as a single player game and want the game to adapt to their style of gameplay. Which I think is bad. These are the players that hate rio.

[chiddie]

Thats way to much work and reminds me of pre-RAIDER.IO with wowprogress checks in the browser.

=> just cancel everyone who is behind the curve in KEYS-DONE. Less than 30/40 +15 timed runs at this late stage of the game? Just cancel for your weekly vault, no reason to waste your time. There is no way to min-max the vault with 10/10 ~15 keys and not gaining timed key statistics, the sheer gearlevel increase over time and the weeks with easier affixes (PUSH WEEKS) makes it impossible to stay at a fixed metric for dungeons done.

As a healer I would instead just love to see average dps for appliers, for me it’s far more important than the number or the level of completed runs, I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.

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Just to clarify: Who are you talking about when you say the "pugging population" and "PuGing community"? Because I'm talking about the WoW population as a whole. You might be very common in relation to the "pugging community" you're talking referring to, but you're a rarity in relation to the entire WoW population. Players that are in active guilds and communities are a minority compared to the entire WoW population. There are A LOT of players who play wow as a single player game and want the game to adapt to their style of gameplay. Which I think is bad. These are the players that hate rio.

This is also due to the fact that gameplay is really not THAT exciting for tanks and in a lesser extent healers so if you play solo and wanna push and you are non meta dps and you can’t afford long sessions, it just takes ages and you give up and start whining.

[Naville]

As a healer I would instead just love to see average dps for appliers, for me it’s far more important than the number or the level of completed runs, I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.

If you've got some time to spend, you can try to check their warcraftlogs. If they are good at raiding they may not perform well in M+ however, but if they are bad at raiding, that's a no-go.

If you can't find any logs and raider.io doesn't show any raiding experience, that means they only do M+. In this case, if they have good score and good gear, just check for their number of timed runs. If it's high enough, that means they aren't boosted, and a M+ exclusive player. Chances are high they're fine.

This doesn't apply to alts by the way. If you're picky, just avoid any alts with way less score than their main, or on a different role.

[chiddie]

If you've got some time to spend, you can try to check their warcraftlogs. If they are good at raiding they may not perform well in M+ however, but if they are bad at raiding, that's a no-go.

If you can't find any logs and raider.io doesn't show any raiding experience, that means they only do M+. In this case, if they have good score and good gear, just check for their number of timed runs. If it's high enough, that means they aren't boosted, and a M+ exclusive player. Chances are high they're fine.

I know I can check out of the game sometimes and somehow but seeing the value in game at a glance would be soooooooo much better XD

[Ange]

I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.

Dont get me wrong, I like padding on AoE just as much as every stupid DPS too. But my fastest keys were done with mediocre 3x DPS doing what it needs to make the run fast.

* switchting to priority targets instead of AoE padding the most dense mob groups
* sacrificing DPS cooldowns to keep the tank cooldosn/healer downtime for difficult pulls low, even before a huge AoE pad-O-rama
* using UTILITY GCDs if needed instead of AoE finishing a huge pull with 3 dead peoples because you did nothing but pad on the meters, helping the tank to survive a pull is ususally not great for damage done on a difficult pull

Not sure what your experience is, but affix and dungeon mechanics are the things that cost most time in M+ and you need a very high key level that pure DPS matters.

15+2 can be done with 3.5k DPS and you can rip a key by 20 minutes with 6k from every DPS.

[Ange]

No reason to do +15s each week, just spam the +14s if you really need the vault, one of my characters has only 16 15+s dungs done lmao.

In my experience 14 keys are used a lot to boost low geared alts and/or with very unexperienced players, so it will take longer to start the runs and longer for the run itself.

Thats not something I would do for 10/10 keys per week.

[Something Wicked]

@Something Wicked
type /played now and tell me how long have you played on lvl 60.
Show me your raider io page.

I am telling you, I put effort into my keys, even with what little time I have I am 4 keys away from KSM. I told you how I messed up my chance at 15 ascension, how I acted, what I lacked, what I am going to do about it.

What did you do? YOUR POST was before mine, you called people like me "ELITIST DOUCHEBAG".
Look, I am 35, married for 7 years now, full time job. I can hardly do 1 key a week. I achieved this much in such a short play time. 11days total since NOVEMBER release.

Anybody whining about ilvls or raider.io at this point in the expansion is SIMPLY bad. Here I said it in a more polite way.
Or do you excel everything in real life? If people point out and tell you, here here this and this was bad about the thing you did, or about you,... Do you take it as valid criticism and try to improve or call them you are all elitist jerks? Totally same. Difference is I learn and put effort to it. while you are telling people using IO are shitheads and you are such an awesome person but they do not invite you.

I can show you 23482347320 videos on youtube about those so called I am diamon but my teammates... videos. You are like them. BAD. Simply BAD.
I am the opposite incarnation of everything you say.
I am casual I do not have time > me to, still OCE top arms warrior.(HC, no time for mythic)
I am casual I cannot get invite to m+ > me to, I worked my own key to 15. Raider io is that way --> go check it.
I am actually good but do not get invited > well no shit, I think I am a good player as well but you have to prove it to others. Why they have to believe you?
I waited 2 hours for an invite still no luck > trying being an arms warrior (bottom of dps in m+) I gave up on the idea of asking for invites long ago. I form my own group.

You can be really good at the game but I assume
You are bad at organizing your stuff, bad at setting priorities.
Good at accusing other successful players, good at avoiding responsibility.

Nobody carried me. Nobody got my gold.
What I achieved, I achieved through my own fucking effort.

Logs are there, raider.io is there. 11days played.
I bet you my ass on it that you have more played than me. All these people whining.

And let say if you have really like 4-5 days played since November, well not going above 10 is really normal. There are tons of people with more experience.

<eats popcorn while the toxic raging goes on and on, even though I have it on good authority this guy isn't a prime example of a toxic player>

I truly am amused. No where in these last few exchanges did I say a word about my own capabilities or experiences, nor what anyone else has done or was capable of doing. Not a word.

In essence all I said is that it's sad people like you -- and yes, clearly like you given your last handful of posts on the subject, where you're ranting on calling everyone a crybaby and shit player who, somehow, is bad if they've played longer than you OR less than you simultaneously -- continue to bitch and moan about the "bad" players rather than about Blizzard for creating this environment in the first place.

Yes, toxic players have always existed. But Blizzard burying one of the better gear progression routes in the game behind not only timed runs, but also punishing everyone in the group if there's a single failure (or someone just leaving, even for completely innocuous reasons) really amped it up to 11. And just like in real life where rich people sit back and laugh at the moronic lower classes bitching about immigrants and poor people, Blizzard is sitting back and laughing at the "elitsts" bitching about the "casuals" and "baddies" as if they somehow created the situation. Which you're personifying time and time again in your posts.

And what does Blizzard do about it? They throw a shit-ton of fuel on the fire with this revelation.

Yet, somehow, this is me being a "crybaby" even though not once -- not once -- did I say I don't do mythic runs, or any of the other garbage you keep trying to not-so-humble brag about while espousing your vitriol.

It truly is entertaining. Sad beyond belief, but entertaining nevertheless.

[Wuusah]

Thats way to much work and reminds me of pre-RAIDER.IO with wowprogress checks in the browser.

=> just cancel everyone who is behind the curve in KEYS-DONE. Less than 30/40 +15 timed runs at this late stage of the game? Just cancel for your weekly vault, no reason to waste your time. There is no way to min-max the vault with 10/10 ~15 keys and not gaining timed key statistics, the sheer gearlevel increase over time and the weeks with easier affixes (PUSH WEEKS) makes it impossible to stay at a fixed metric for dungeons done.

people need to understand that the raider.io addon doesn't track all that data from some ingame interface. It gets that data from the armory page which for some weird reason shows more than what you can find out ingame. All that raw data is then put into an addon and updated a few times per day. It's basically just a huge excel file. And the more data they put into that "excel file", the bigger it will be.

For example, I'd love to see the "3 best keys for that dungeon" to be shown. It's a huge difference whether someone is 15, 14, 14 or 15, 10, 5. But that would mean they'd have to put basically 3 times as much data into that file and make the file size bigger. And I don't know if they have limitations in that regard. I'm not an addon creator.

The best news of this "Blizzard M+ score system" is that we will finally have an ingame interface for that and addons like rio will be able to use it as a baseline and make it better without the need to be a huge spreadsheet that needs to be updated daily.

So while it might be this clunky way of looking people up on the rio website now, in 9.1 or later the addon could be so much better because of the ingame system that we won't have to do that anymore to get the detailed information

[chiddie]

Dont get me wrong, I like padding on AoE just as much as every stupid DPS too. But my fastest keys were done with mediocre 3x DPS doing what it needs to make the run fast.

* switchting to priority targets instead of AoE padding the most dense mob groups
* sacrificing DPS cooldowns to keep the tank cooldosn/healer downtime for difficult pulls low, even before a huge AoE pad-O-rama
* using UTILITY GCDs if needed instead of AoE finishing a huge pull with 3 dead peoples because you did nothing but pad on the meters, helping the tank to survive a pull is ususally not great for damage done on a difficult pull

Not sure what your experience is, but affix and dungeon mechanics are the things that cost most time in M+ and you need a very high key level that pure DPS matters.

15+2 can be done with 3.5k DPS and you can rip a key by 20 minutes with 6k from every DPS.

My experience as healer is that a run with low dps usually fail while a run with good dps may fail but less likely because random mistakes or even wipes can be covered (to an extent of course) by mobs and bosses going down fast.

I do recognize that it’s better doing less dps than dying but especially in Tyr weeks AND in pugs, with low dps bosses won’t simply go down fast enough for the healer to cover mistakes and massive dotting from bosses for a long time. It’s not a oom issue, it’s bosses that will simply overdamage your healing.

Take the third SD boss for example, in Tyr weeks if she doesn’t die shortly after the fourth “my patience is wearing thin” max, it’s a wipe 99% of time unless the other players have a way to refill to full theirselves.