In-game Raider.io score

[ellieg]

Ok so what I get to read between the lines, r.io score doesn't really matter until you are doing what, +13?
I'm very interested at this point about these thresholds, so 300 r.io doesn't matter if you do +5, but +13 is too much? Ok what about r.io 600, does that get me to 10? And please refrain from thinking about carrying of any sort, just similar people in a group, everyone pulling their own weight.
What about +15, what kind of r.io score you need in order to complete it? (well more like what r.io score you would personally consider +15 doable?)

So you get about 10 (a little higher but let's keep it simple) pts per key level per dungeon. Theres 8 dungeons. So at 500 rio, for real quick math, you could do 500/8 = 62.5. So on average each dungeon gave you 62.5 pts, which means if all dungeons were even, you've done all 8 on +6. At lower levels u can jump up 2 or 3 levels at a time, so at 500 rio, id say you're prob fine qing for an 8, maybe a 9. For safe bet, q for 7s and work your way up.

I personally don't care to look at rio until my alts are doing like a +7. Then at that point I make sure you at leaat have some history. At +10, I look to see if you a have ~700+ score, a couple plus 10s, and at least an 8 of that dungeon done. At +12, I care that you at least have 1 lower than the current dungeon done. So a +11 of that dungeon, other keys around the same level, and multiple keys run in that bracket. Thays just how I do it.

For +15, im looking for super smooth runs so honestly at least +15 already done on that dungeon, multiple +15s done total, and at least a 1300 score.

Idk about doable. Theres some ppl that can time a +10 in that dungeon and instantly do the 15. But im not taking the chance. Most ppl pugging past 12 usually try to do all on 12, then all on 13, then all on 14, to slowly build score to look more attractive in the group finder.

Ilvl is another metric too. As well as class and spec

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Let's look at this from another viewpoint. You actually are pretty damn good engineer, and but you can't get the job because your engineering.io is not high enough. Why?
Because you haven't done this engineering work, because in order to get to do this work, you need to have some experience, which you get when you get a job, but you need experience which you don't have since you can't be hired because you don't have the experience for it. You have to get experience, but you will not get experience because you need the experience in the first place. Again, a vicious cycle which you cannot break because of engineering.io.
You learn by doing, but if you can't do, you can't learn.

or you work your self up like everyone else, from a +2 engineering workplace to a +3 engineering workplace like in irl you cant get a degree and start @ the biggest IT firma in you country you have to do some shitty jobs and get exp and recommendations.

[Wuusah]

Ok so what I get to read between the lines, r.io score doesn't really matter until you are doing what, +13?
I'm very interested at this point about these thresholds, so 300 r.io doesn't matter if you do +5, but +13 is too much? Ok what about r.io 600, does that get me to 10? And please refrain from thinking about carrying of any sort, just similar people in a group, everyone pulling their own weight.
What about +15, what kind of r.io score you need in order to complete it? (well more like what r.io score you would personally consider +15 doable?)

dude, do you understand what the score is??? Like seriously. Where do you think that score comes from? If you have done dungeons on +5 then you will have a score of X and that score of X is good enough to let you into dungeons in the range of 7-9, which then will give you a score of Y, which is good enough to let you into 10-12, which will give you a score of Z...

Don't focus on the score number. Focus on the dungeon key levels and just do steady upgrades of 1-3 key levels.

[Something Wicked]

But I am curious: what is your solution to the issue: “I have (want) to to that in time, how do I find other ppl willing and hopefully capable enough to do so without basing on ppl word only?” Because it’s clear that basing only on ilvl already present in-game does not help at all.

Get rid of the timers, get rid of the automatic key reduction (but have an option so you can opt to do so), and get rid of the ridiculous "you can't invite anyone to replace anyone who left" stipulation. Then just make the esport aspects of it a series of achievements that they should have been from the start. Aka, turn it from negative reinforcement to positive reinforcement.

The vast majority of the toxicity melts away instantly. Still a lot there, but it would be almost entirely douche-related rather than game-justified.

[chiddie]

Ok so what I get to read between the lines, r.io score doesn't really matter until you are doing what, +13?
I'm very interested at this point about these thresholds, so 300 r.io doesn't matter if you do +5, but +13 is too much? Ok what about r.io 600, does that get me to 10? And please refrain from thinking about carrying of any sort, just similar people in a group, everyone pulling their own weight.
What about +15, what kind of r.io score you need in order to complete it? (well more like what r.io score you would personally consider +15 doable?)

+15 is “complex”. It’s probably the most complex key regarding rio acceptance. If at 14 anyone with a proper rio (roughly 1050 to 1180) will be generally accepted, probably +15 per se is where absurd requests begins and you’ll have to really start pushing your own key.

You fall in the spiral “I know you could make it because you have all 14 but I’ll pick up someone that has already done some 15 just to be “more sure”” and it’ll be probably tough to enter groups regardless the role.

I’m only assuming of course but “spying” some +15 in lfg I got this idea.

[Specialka]

Get rid of the timers, get rid of the automatic key reduction (but have an option so you can opt to do so), and get rid of the ridiculous "you can't invite anyone to replace anyone who left" stipulation. Then just make the esport aspects of it a series of achievements that they should have been from the start. Aka, turn it from negative reinforcement to positive reinforcement.

The vast majority of the toxicity melts away instantly. Still a lot there, but it would be almost entirely douche-related rather than game-justified.

As soon as you get rid of the timer, people will just cc everything and pull mobs one by one. And specs without any kind of cc won't be picked.

[Something Wicked]

As soon as you get rid of the timer, people will just cc everything and pull mobs one by one. And specs without any kind of cc won't be picked.

Nice blog post.

[munkeyinorbit]

It doesn't. It literally doesn't show best X of people for SPECIFIC dungeon. It provides score which people only look at, at least most people. You can check on their website but you can't check in that tooltip. Again, you are wrong, read what I wrote, word by word.


And even if that info would be on tooltip, people would be still looking at score because its "easy to understand". While being mostly irrelevant,antisocial and turning M+ into rat race.

This is just plain embarrassing. The tooltip gives you the total score, your best dungeon, your best of the chosen dungeon, the number of dungeons done in a given difficulty bracket, and the score on your designated main.

It sounds like you only look at score and have completely missed the other info in the tooltip.

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Dude I know what i shows, been using it a lot. Doesn't show what I said I am interested in.

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learn to read.

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Read my comments again.


Since some people have troubles with reading with comprehension.

I am not interested in BEST dungeon. I am not interested in OTHER dungeons.

I am interested in showing best X dungeon runs for a SPECIFIC dungeon.

Wanna play mists, so I want to see their best runs agains THIS DUNGEON. I don't care for numerical score.
I care that one dude played 5 times mists with 15/15/15/15/16
And the other guy did 1/2/3/4/17

Because even if the second guy could have higher score, i'd rather take someone who has done THIS SPECIFIC DUNGEON more times on higher key.

Nice movement of the goalposts. First it was best of a specific dungeon, now it's the history of a specific dungeon.

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As a healer I would instead just love to see average dps for appliers, for me it’s far more important than the number or the level of completed runs, I would take a 1000 rio dude with 4.5k dps over a 1300 rio dude with 3.5k dps anytime.

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This is also due to the fact that gameplay is really not THAT exciting for tanks and in a lesser extent healers so if you play solo and wanna push and you are non meta dps and you can’t afford long sessions, it just takes ages and you give up and start whining.

And that's how you get a bunch of guys standing in fire. Gratz. You just killed your key.

[kaminaris]

This is just plain embarrassing. The tooltip gives you the total score, your best dungeon, your best of the chosen dungeon, the number of dungeons done in a given difficulty bracket, and the score on your designated main.

It sounds like you only look at score and have completely missed the other info in the tooltip.

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Nice movement of the goalposts. First it was best of a specific dungeon, now it's the history of a specific dungeon.

Plain embarrassing is your lack of reading comprehension. Read my first post I said (that was waaaaaaaaaaaaay back) until you understand what I said.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53132214

Not my fault people cut in the middle of conversation without bothering to read the thread.

[chiddie]

This is just plain embarrassing. The tooltip gives you the total score, your best dungeon, your best of the chosen dungeon, the number of dungeons done in a given difficulty bracket, and the score on your designated main.

It sounds like you only look at score and have completely missed the other info in the tooltip.

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Nice movement of the goalposts. First it was best of a specific dungeon, now it's the history of a specific dungeon.

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And that's how you get a bunch of guys standing in fire. Gratz. You just killed your key.

A dude with an average 4.5k dps over 20+ timed dungeons won’t stand always in the fire, dead dps cannot dps.

He wouldn’t have that average if he always died.

[Nite92]

A dude with an average 4.5k dps over 20+ timed dungeons won’t stand always in the fire, dead dps cannot dps.

He wouldn’t have that average if he always died.

There is a difference between dying and taking more dmg than necessary/interrupting/helping the tank kite. Maybe even save CD for a difficult pull. If dps were a better metric than r.io to judge people, well then r.io wouldn't exist and people would use wcl.

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So instead of helping him learn how to be better you just watched him fail time and time again. What a great friend you are.

You are always jumping to conclusions, which cant possible well informed. Some people dont care enough to learn/get better.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

And another example of someone voluntarily choosing to misinterpret a conversation.

If you bothered to read what I've said, I mentioned that there's always been toxic players. But that mythic+ dungeons, with their punishing of players for failing and their timers, have ramped that up, and with raider.io pretty much making it the norm now. Hence why so many people absolutely loathe both aspects of the game, especially with Blizzard choosing to embrace those toxic elements more and more strongly with every addition to the game.

Even more amusingly is how people like you seem to think I'm specifically attacking you, when in reality I'm talking about people like this guy. See my previous post about the Nazi statement parallel. That's on you, not me.



Nice blog post.

bro i don't even know who you are.
Infracted

[chiddie]

There is a difference between dying and taking more dmg than necessary/interrupting/helping the tank kite. Maybe even save CD for a difficult pull. If dps were a better metric than r.io to judge people, well then r.io wouldn't exist and people would use wcl.

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You are always jumping to conclusions, which cant possible well informed. Some people dont care enough to learn/get better.

Average dps is OF COURSE not the best metric exactly as rio itself is not the best metric, but it’s the simplest way to measure a dps.

[Nite92]

Average dps is OF COURSE not the best metric exactly as rio itself is not the best metric, but it’s the simplest way to measure a dps.

Lol, you are trolling, right? R.io is way better than dps to measure the skill of a player.

[chiddie]

Lol, you are trolling, right? R.io is way better than dps to measure the skill of a player.

I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.

[Kaver]

I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.

Me as a Rogue in Freehold.

Tank: "Hi Rogue, can you please stealth to the pig to start the RP event?"

Me: "Nope! I need to maintain my average DPS score!"

[Accendor]

I'm extremely sad that this tool used to justify elitism and toxicity is being formalized, but i've long since realized that this war has been over for a while.

I just don't pug anymore. Have fun with your toxic m+ pugging.

You do realize tho that the whole goal of rio us to make it less toxic, right? Successfull runs usually do not end in flamewars.

[kamuimac]

There is a difference between dying and taking more dmg than necessary/interrupting/helping the tank kite. Maybe even save CD for a difficult pull. If dps were a better metric than r.io to judge people, well then r.io wouldn't exist and people would use wcl.

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You are always jumping to conclusions, which cant possible well informed. Some people dont care enough to learn/get better.

good dps can though kill stuff before mechanics happen . thats why if you have group with good dps you only need like 1 max 2 interupts per pack . if dps is bad - oh boy then problems happen .

ill give you example from last night - i did run in what would be sub optimal group - aka 2 hunters and ele shammy - but because of 2x wild spirirts every 2 minutes trash melted down when 2 people were bursting for 25k consistently

[Nite92]

I said that BESIDES rio FOR ME it would be useful to have also average dps of dps who apply.

Feel free to not care about dps of dps just don’t pretend it’s not a useful data.

It is actually not useful data.

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good dps can though kill stuff before mechanics happen . thats why if you have group with good dps you only need like 1 max 2 interupts per pack . if dps is bad - oh boy then problems happen .

ill give you example from last night - i did run in what would be sub optimal group - aka 2 hunters and ele shammy - but because of 2x wild spirirts every 2 minutes trash melted down when 2 people were bursting for 25k consistently

I never meant that dps does not matter, just that the overall dps during a dungeon does tell you very little.

[chiddie]

Me as a Rogue in Freehold.

Tank: "Hi Rogue, can you please stealth to the pig to start the RP event?"

Me: "Nope! I need to maintain my average DPS score!"

I don’t see any freehold here. BUT in any case it won’t be 10 dungeons out of 50 done in which your dps was lower due to a particular mechanics to make the overall difference.

I would need it not to pick a 3.5k dps in a 14, if you’re 4K+ it’s all the same, if I think I need a rogue for whatever reason I won’t pick a 4.3k frost dk instead of a 4K rogue.

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It is actually not useful data.

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I never meant that dps does not matter, just that the overall dps during a dungeon does tell you very little.

It tells a lot. If your dps is consistent it means that you are able to do dps AND other things like interrupting AND not standing in bad stuff AND avoid avoidable damage. If it’s low and you’re geared like the high dps dude it means you are failing in one/two or all three of those 3 categories.

OF COURSE it’s not a 100% reliable data but as well as rio it’s better than the actual nothing.

Basing on MY healer experience 90% of my non timed runs at any level were because of dps not dpsing enough for whatever reason.