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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    The Jailer literally held back and did nothing to us from the Maw then. He probably just didn’t think Anduin held as much sway over the Light as he did, especially in the Maw.

    Also reminder that the Jailer can literally empower mf’s with his glare the same way Sargeras could.

    And no, you’re wanking Sargeras. He did defeat the Titan Pantheon, yes. But the battle took a LONG time, and different parts of reality were being torn asunder from their battle. Sargeras was literally beating down the Pantheon for that long, while the Pantheon did their best to stop him. It wasn’t till their wills were completely broken however, when Sargeras decided to destroy their already weakened and fucked up bodies with his might.

    Yes, they can destroy worlds and shit, so could Archimonde, a Garothi Worlbreaker, etc. There are much better feats for Sargeras to go by, and if the Jailer ends up ruling the Shadowlands in the end of 9.1, he essentially rules the Afterlife, the Infinite Realms of Death, as well as the Cosmic Power of Death itself.

    Slaps any “planet” buster.
    "ruling" doesnt mean anything. a king also rules a kingdom, but that doesnt mean hes the most powerful fighter.
    fact remains, we have feats for sargeras and nothing for the jailer. thats not "wanking" sargeras, thats simply staying true to his feats, and the jailers lack of them.
    so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.
    Well, change it from "can" to "was shown to" and i'll agree with you.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I really think they fucked it up with Jailer's reveal.

    It is clear it was a plan long in making at the VERY least from Legion that would make it 6-7 years in making at least, including planning. But as you say, they REALLY needed to start meaningfully introducing him already in Legion - the very first raid with Helya and content in Helheim zone. We should have at least started hearing term "Jailer" back then.

    Yes, they did plenty premonitions there with Helya and Sylv, Ilgy whispers, Odyn's and Voljin's breadcrumbs. But by the end of the Legion we at least should have had some knowledge about Jailer there, even if it would mostly be vague stuff with only his title mentioned and possible ties.

    It really should have been like Sargeras - you don't see him, but you are very keenly aware of his presence. But nope, they just went and plopped Jailer out of nowhere in Shlands and casually tied him to everything with "this guy did it all along" and let it slide.

    Yeap, mystery is fine and all, but I really think this has failed a bit. There needs to be more investment into supposedly big expansion threat they try to pain Jailer as.

    I just hope they will seed properly the upcoming villain's of next expansion and expansion after already.
    I agree, we should have heard something small during Legion. Helya or Sylvanas, doesn't mater for me should have been used to get some snippes f the Jailer. The feeling of.. something is out there or 'he is coming' type of thing would just spark peoples interest more.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    "ruling" doesnt mean anything. a king also rules a kingdom, but that doesnt mean hes the most powerful fighter.
    fact remains, we have feats for sargeras and nothing for the jailer. thats not "wanking" sargeras, thats simply staying true to his feats, and the jailers lack of them.
    so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.
    imagine people saying wanking Sargeras who stomped 5 planet sized beings and yet they wank some random ass, ugly as shit character made up on the spot who literally didn't do anything and was beaten by Titan Keeper level of power and one of them was fodder Archon xd

    this fanbase today is something else.

    glad I don't give a damn about World of Retcons/Garbage anymore.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2021-04-18 at 08:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    imagine people saying wanking Sargeras who stomped 5 planet sized beings and yet they wank some random ass, ugly as shit character made up on the spot who literally didn't do anything and was beaten by Titan Keeper level of power and one of them was fodder Archon xd

    this fanbase today is something else.

    glad I don't give a damn about World of Retcons/Garbage anymore.
    Can you prove he’s only Titan Keeper level? Cause I got like 4-5 interviews saying otherwise.

    Also, when you put a guy who can’t even destroy all of reality himself against a guy who’s essentially going to control the Shadowlands and have the power of Death itself at his command and say “oh yeah he’s stronger” all because he did some feats Archimonde could do with ease, that’s wanking.

    Sargeras has so many better feats than the Planet shit aswell. So, in a way, you’re also downplaying him.

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    And don’t say “the fanbase is something else” if you can’t even argue Sargeras correctly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    "ruling" doesnt mean anything. a king also rules a kingdom, but that doesnt mean hes the most powerful fighter.
    fact remains, we have feats for sargeras and nothing for the jailer. thats not "wanking" sargeras, thats simply staying true to his feats, and the jailers lack of them.
    so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.
    It’s almost like gaining the Sigils and controlling the Cosmic Power of Death itself after “ascending” is a much greater factor than just simply “ruling” something. Also, being a leader can definitely mean you’re stronger than your army/capital, if you will the power. Sargeras can literally dismantle the Legion with ease, and he rules them. Varian or CURRENT Anduin could also dismantle their kingdoms armies, arguably alone too.

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    I’m not disagreeing with you in that the Jailer isn’t impressive right now. That’s kinda why 9.1 exists

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I already explain why Zovaal could be the perfect pathway for the Void.

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    Definitely not like a WoD. WoD's plotline mostly got fucked. All the Jailer's doing this patch is claiming the Realms of Death for himself. 9.2 is going to be about the Jailer trying to claim Reality, and Life itself.

    Essentially, that is what's been going on. Life is the main target of the Jailer next.

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    Tbf here, I kinda knew the Eternal Ones wouldn't do shit, since a lot of them are not only gone, and not only did the Jailer BTFO the Primus, but the fucking ARCHON got 1 shot by Anduin! LMAOOOOO

    tho, Darkoms is gonna have a field day seeing Odyn apparently still be scary, and he'll be like "OH YEAH, ETERNAL ONES ARE KEEPER LEVEL" or some irrelevant shit like that, when in reality, Odyn hasn't seen me in years (tho, he should still recognize me), and that Val'kyr chick legit doesn't know who I am lmao.

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    Also, why is Odyn sending people out to beat Helya still? HE'S NOT BOUND TO THE HALLS OF VALOR ANYMORE!!!
    What?..
    10 characters

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    What?..
    10 characters
    I was on a tangent. Kinda forgot I mentioned you that day. Sorry lmao

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I was on a tangent. Kinda forgot I mentioned you that day. Sorry lmao
    I mean, i don't understand yoy. How connected Odyn and Eternal Ones power level?

  9. #269
    Man, if only I had invested heavily in mustache wax before Danuser took over. Sylvanas' twirling would have made me millions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    It’s almost like gaining the Sigils and controlling the Cosmic Power of Death itself after “ascending” is a much greater factor than just simply “ruling” something. Also, being a leader can definitely mean you’re stronger than your army/capital, if you will the power. Sargeras can literally dismantle the Legion with ease, and he rules them. Varian or CURRENT Anduin could also dismantle their kingdoms armies, arguably alone too.
    We don't know what the Sigils actually allow him to do. And the "ascending" seems to be entirely literal, he is physically moving from the Maw to Oribos.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Game health percentage means nothing.
    that's not the point, the point is that we fight nathanos and then the cinematic triggers at 10%. Nathanos is literally fighting us in the cinematic as his dialogue is directing at the players before tyrande shows up.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Can you prove he’s only Titan Keeper level? Cause I got like 4-5 interviews saying otherwise.

    Also, when you put a guy who can’t even destroy all of reality himself against a guy who’s essentially going to control the Shadowlands and have the power of Death itself at his command and say “oh yeah he’s stronger” all because he did some feats Archimonde could do with ease, that’s wanking.

    Sargeras has so many better feats than the Planet shit aswell. So, in a way, you’re also downplaying him.

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    And don’t say “the fanbase is something else” if you can’t even argue Sargeras correctly

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    It’s almost like gaining the Sigils and controlling the Cosmic Power of Death itself after “ascending” is a much greater factor than just simply “ruling” something. Also, being a leader can definitely mean you’re stronger than your army/capital, if you will the power. Sargeras can literally dismantle the Legion with ease, and he rules them. Varian or CURRENT Anduin could also dismantle their kingdoms armies, arguably alone too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I’m not disagreeing with you in that the Jailer isn’t impressive right now. That’s kinda why 9.1 exists
    there was an interview where danuser specifically compared the eternal ones to titan keepers. and yes, there where also interviews where he compared them to titans.
    just shows that the man has no fckn clue and pull this stuff out of his ass as it suits him.

    but about 9.1: you dont even know yet if the jailer will end up as all that. you are assuming he will "control the cosmic power of death" and whatnot, but nothing so far shows or indicates that. we have no idea whats really going to happen.
    which means, as long as it didnt happen yet, its no feat for the jailer, and has nothing to do in this discussion.
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  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    there was an interview where danuser specifically compared the eternal ones to titan keepers. and yes, there where also interviews where he compared them to titans.
    just shows that the man has no fckn clue and pull this stuff out of his ass as it suits him.

    but about 9.1: you dont even know yet if the jailer will end up as all that. you are assuming he will "control the cosmic power of death" and whatnot, but nothing so far shows or indicates that. we have no idea whats really going to happen.
    which means, as long as it didnt happen yet, its no feat for the jailer, and has nothing to do in this discussion.
    I think it was the art designer who said that about the Titan Keepers. Still, the story writers had to give him all the information necessary for him to create their designs.

    https://sagamer.co.za/2020/08/20/a-d...f-hibernation/

    “So the winter queen we wanted something that stood above the night fae and felt somewhat different than they were. And of course, she’s similar to other creatures like her that we’ve had in the past. You know, she’s not a Titan, but she’s something kind of right below that. She’s an ultra-powerful creature here and part of this pantheon in a similar way that the Titan Watchers and Keepers we’ve seen in the past were part of the pantheon of law and order. These are the pantheon of death. So, that was sort of a starting point is that she’s a creature above and beyond the night fae themselves. She’s part of a greater order."
    don't forget Archon struggled with her underlings and was even beaten by one, not to mention Denathrius was beaten by us so no way any of them is Titan level.

    they are, by their portrayal, Titan Keeper level like the concept artist said.

    P.S Johnstone, Sargeras didn't just beat 5 planet sized beings. he overpowered and wrecked 5 Godlike beings who were the rulers of Magic, Time, Sky, Earth and Life.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2021-04-18 at 09:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    I think it was the art designer who said that about the Titan Keepers. Still, the story writers had to give him all the information necessary for him to create their designs.



    don't forget Archon struggled with her underlings and was even beaten by one, not to mention Denathrius was beaten by us so no way any of them is a Titan level.

    they are, by their portrayal, Titan Keeper level like the concept artist said.
    ahhh yes. thanks. that was it.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

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    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I mean, i don't understand yoy. How connected Odyn and Eternal Ones power level?
    Idfk. Some Val’kyr said “oh yeah, Odyn might get mad about the news on Helya, DO NOT be afraid” and then Odyn proceeds to act like we just met him and he sends us to beat down Helya and her forces or some shit. And this is after we beat Denathrius, it’s weird.

    However, in the same raid, the Jailer pulls some Sargeras type shit with his gaze, and it’s also weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    there was an interview where danuser specifically compared the eternal ones to titan keepers. and yes, there where also interviews where he compared them to titans.
    just shows that the man has no fckn clue and pull this stuff out of his ass as it suits him.

    but about 9.1: you dont even know yet if the jailer will end up as all that. you are assuming he will "control the cosmic power of death" and whatnot, but nothing so far shows or indicates that. we have no idea whats really going to happen.
    which means, as long as it didnt happen yet, its no feat for the jailer, and has nothing to do in this discussion.
    Danuser compared them to the Titans in a more recent interview, so no.

    Also, what do you mean “nothing indicates that”? You just miss out on most of SL’s lore? Or?

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    that's not the point, the point is that we fight nathanos and then the cinematic triggers at 10%. Nathanos is literally fighting us in the cinematic as his dialogue is directing at the players before tyrande shows up.
    that's actually quite sad lol.

    if theory about Elune being the First One is true and First Ones are above the Titans and Tyrande is amped by the First One, then all that amp which is way too much for her to handle was only powerful enough to beat weakened Nathanos LMAO.

    big brain at Blizzard.

    but anyway, we trailed off topic with all the talk about power levels as if they even mean anything in WoW... or anywhere for that matter xd
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2021-04-18 at 09:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Idfk. Some Val’kyr said “oh yeah, Odyn might get mad about the news on Helya, DO NOT be afraid” and then Odyn proceeds to act like we just met him and he sends us to beat down Helya and her forces or some shit. And this is after we beat Denathrius, it’s weird.

    However, in the same raid, the Jailer pulls some Sargeras type shit with his gaze, and it’s also weird.

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    Danuser compared them to the Titans in a more recent interview, so no.

    Also, what do you mean “nothing indicates that”? You just miss out on most of SL’s lore? Or?
    as ive said before: danuser makes this shit up as he needs it. until the addon is over, we can argue back and forth on this

    pls, enlighten me. where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?
    cause what i last heard is that hes trying to claim his "final prize, the secret that the first ones sought to hide". Which does not indicate hes ascending into some god-form. He MIGHT, but nothings even remotely confirmed.
    as pretty often, thats merely speculation on your part.
    Last edited by Houle; 2021-04-18 at 08:38 PM.
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  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I agree, we should have heard something small during Legion. Helya or Sylvanas, doesn't mater for me should have been used to get some snippes f the Jailer. The feeling of.. something is out there or 'he is coming' type of thing would just spark peoples interest more.
    The best is once again, to compare the Blue Man with Sargie boi. The latter was already mentioned in WC2, although by then he seemed to be just a (very) powerful Demon Lord. He's mentioned again during TFT as being the creator of the Legion, and there are multiple mentions to him in Vanilla/Classic quests, and yet again during BC.

    Hell, even Garry, another of the most beloved villains of WoW, had a decent buildup all the way from BC to MoP. But the Blue Man of nowadays lives on nothing but shameless retcons, and no, his partner/employee's Sylv terrible writing doesn't help. I mean, if Sylv was meant to be a proxy for giving us a glimpse of Zovaal's power... then the writers just failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  19. #279
    Johnstone, I couldn't care less what Betanuser said.

    he can be a lead narrative designer for 50 years straight and I still wouldn't trust him.

    I wouldn't even trust him to boil my eggs for dinner.

    not a single Eternal One is close to being Titan level in power (Denathrius and Archon are the best example of that).

    the only Titan like thing about them is the fact that they are the Pantheon of Death.

    power wise, they are ants to them.

    Titans in their true form cannot be fought by us in any way and iirc they said during Legion that Aggramar would have crushed us if he had his full Titan form.



    23:35 we are no match for the real Titan and they would step on us like ants.

    meanwhile, Eternal Ones can be fought off.

    my last post on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The best is once again, to compare the Blue Man with Sargie boi. The latter was already mentioned in WC2, although by then he seemed to be just a (very) powerful Demon Lord. He's mentioned again during TFT as being the creator of the Legion, and there are multiple mentions to him in Vanilla/Classic quests, and yet again during BC.

    Hell, even Garry, another of the most beloved villains of WoW, had a decent buildup all the way from BC to MoP. But the Blue Man of nowadays lives on nothing but shameless retcons, and no, his partner/employee's Sylv terrible writing doesn't help. I mean, if Sylv was meant to be a proxy for giving us a glimpse of Zovaal's power... then the writers just failed.
    well said.

    Blue Man... is that his official joke name around here xd

    you should add bald

    Bluebald Man
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2021-04-18 at 09:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    that's not the point, the point is that we fight nathanos and then the cinematic triggers at 10%. Nathanos is literally fighting us in the cinematic as his dialogue is directing at the players before tyrande shows up.
    Yeah, so? The argument made was that he was weakened when Tyrande kills him, and I'm pointing out why that's just bullshit.

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    "Titans in their true form cannot be fought by us in any way and iirc they said during Legion that Aggramar would have crushed us if he had full Titan form."

    "Ion said this during Legion, so it's valid"

    Oh, this is perfect...

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    First minute in, btw. Ion compares the Eternal Ones to the Titans in terms of Cosmic Power in the Verse!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    as ive said before: danuser makes this shit up as he needs it. until the addon is over, we can argue back and forth on this

    pls, enlighten me. where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?
    cause what i last heard is that hes trying to claim his "final prize, the secret that the first ones sought to hide". Which does not indicate hes ascending into some god-form. He MIGHT, but nothings even remotely confirmed.
    as pretty often, thats merely speculation on your part.
    where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?

    Denathrius.

    "For the Banished One to reclaim what was his. And once his victory is secured. It will be by HIS WILL that all is washed away. The only power that will emerge from this torrent of change is Death. Death and those who shaped its victory.

    The Jailer also wants to chain all existence VIA the Primus telling us, AND the Primus said the Arbiter is the Key. The Attendants also said that IF the Jailer kills the Arbiter, everything the First Ones made would be gone. Which also implies the First Ones made everything!

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