Ardenweald Assault [Massive Spoilers]

[darkoms]

I already explain why Zovaal could be the perfect pathway for the Void.

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Definitely not like a WoD. WoD's plotline mostly got fucked. All the Jailer's doing this patch is claiming the Realms of Death for himself. 9.2 is going to be about the Jailer trying to claim Reality, and Life itself.

Essentially, that is what's been going on. Life is the main target of the Jailer next.

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Tbf here, I kinda knew the Eternal Ones wouldn't do shit, since a lot of them are not only gone, and not only did the Jailer BTFO the Primus, but the fucking ARCHON got 1 shot by Anduin! LMAOOOOO

tho, Darkoms is gonna have a field day seeing Odyn apparently still be scary, and he'll be like "OH YEAH, ETERNAL ONES ARE KEEPER LEVEL" or some irrelevant shit like that, when in reality, Odyn hasn't seen me in years (tho, he should still recognize me), and that Val'kyr chick legit doesn't know who I am lmao.

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Also, why is Odyn sending people out to beat Helya still? HE'S NOT BOUND TO THE HALLS OF VALOR ANYMORE!!!

What?..
10 characters

[TheFirstOnes]

What?..
10 characters

I was on a tangent. Kinda forgot I mentioned you that day. Sorry lmao

[darkoms]

I was on a tangent. Kinda forgot I mentioned you that day. Sorry lmao

I mean, i don't understand yoy. How connected Odyn and Eternal Ones power level?

[Feanoro]

Man, if only I had invested heavily in mustache wax before Danuser took over. Sylvanas' twirling would have made me millions.

[huth]

It’s almost like gaining the Sigils and controlling the Cosmic Power of Death itself after “ascending” is a much greater factor than just simply “ruling” something. Also, being a leader can definitely mean you’re stronger than your army/capital, if you will the power. Sargeras can literally dismantle the Legion with ease, and he rules them. Varian or CURRENT Anduin could also dismantle their kingdoms armies, arguably alone too.

We don't know what the Sigils actually allow him to do. And the "ascending" seems to be entirely literal, he is physically moving from the Maw to Oribos.

[voidox]

Game health percentage means nothing.

that's not the point, the point is that we fight nathanos and then the cinematic triggers at 10%. Nathanos is literally fighting us in the cinematic as his dialogue is directing at the players before tyrande shows up.

[Houle]

Can you prove he’s only Titan Keeper level? Cause I got like 4-5 interviews saying otherwise.

Also, when you put a guy who can’t even destroy all of reality himself against a guy who’s essentially going to control the Shadowlands and have the power of Death itself at his command and say “oh yeah he’s stronger” all because he did some feats Archimonde could do with ease, that’s wanking.

Sargeras has so many better feats than the Planet shit aswell. So, in a way, you’re also downplaying him.

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And don’t say “the fanbase is something else” if you can’t even argue Sargeras correctly

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It’s almost like gaining the Sigils and controlling the Cosmic Power of Death itself after “ascending” is a much greater factor than just simply “ruling” something. Also, being a leader can definitely mean you’re stronger than your army/capital, if you will the power. Sargeras can literally dismantle the Legion with ease, and he rules them. Varian or CURRENT Anduin could also dismantle their kingdoms armies, arguably alone too.

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I’m not disagreeing with you in that the Jailer isn’t impressive right now. That’s kinda why 9.1 exists

there was an interview where danuser specifically compared the eternal ones to titan keepers. and yes, there where also interviews where he compared them to titans.
just shows that the man has no fckn clue and pull this stuff out of his ass as it suits him.

but about 9.1: you dont even know yet if the jailer will end up as all that. you are assuming he will "control the cosmic power of death" and whatnot, but nothing so far shows or indicates that. we have no idea whats really going to happen.
which means, as long as it didnt happen yet, its no feat for the jailer, and has nothing to do in this discussion.

[DemonHunter18]

there was an interview where danuser specifically compared the eternal ones to titan keepers. and yes, there where also interviews where he compared them to titans.
just shows that the man has no fckn clue and pull this stuff out of his ass as it suits him.

but about 9.1: you dont even know yet if the jailer will end up as all that. you are assuming he will "control the cosmic power of death" and whatnot, but nothing so far shows or indicates that. we have no idea whats really going to happen.
which means, as long as it didnt happen yet, its no feat for the jailer, and has nothing to do in this discussion.

I think it was the art designer who said that about the Titan Keepers. Still, the story writers had to give him all the information necessary for him to create their designs.

https://sagamer.co.za/2020/08/20/a-d...f-hibernation/

“So the winter queen we wanted something that stood above the night fae and felt somewhat different than they were. And of course, she’s similar to other creatures like her that we’ve had in the past. You know, she’s not a Titan, but she’s something kind of right below that. She’s an ultra-powerful creature here and part of this pantheon in a similar way that the Titan Watchers and Keepers we’ve seen in the past were part of the pantheon of law and order. These are the pantheon of death. So, that was sort of a starting point is that she’s a creature above and beyond the night fae themselves. She’s part of a greater order."

don't forget Archon struggled with her underlings and was even beaten by one, not to mention Denathrius was beaten by us so no way any of them is Titan level.

they are, by their portrayal, Titan Keeper level like the concept artist said.

P.S Johnstone, Sargeras didn't just beat 5 planet sized beings. he overpowered and wrecked 5 Godlike beings who were the rulers of Magic, Time, Sky, Earth and Life.

[Houle]

I think it was the art designer who said that about the Titan Keepers. Still, the story writers had to give him all the information necessary for him to create their designs.



don't forget Archon struggled with her underlings and was even beaten by one, not to mention Denathrius was beaten by us so no way any of them is a Titan level.

they are, by their portrayal, Titan Keeper level like the concept artist said.

ahhh yes. thanks. that was it.

[TheFirstOnes]

I mean, i don't understand yoy. How connected Odyn and Eternal Ones power level?

Idfk. Some Val’kyr said “oh yeah, Odyn might get mad about the news on Helya, DO NOT be afraid” and then Odyn proceeds to act like we just met him and he sends us to beat down Helya and her forces or some shit. And this is after we beat Denathrius, it’s weird.

However, in the same raid, the Jailer pulls some Sargeras type shit with his gaze, and it’s also weird.

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there was an interview where danuser specifically compared the eternal ones to titan keepers. and yes, there where also interviews where he compared them to titans.
just shows that the man has no fckn clue and pull this stuff out of his ass as it suits him.

but about 9.1: you dont even know yet if the jailer will end up as all that. you are assuming he will "control the cosmic power of death" and whatnot, but nothing so far shows or indicates that. we have no idea whats really going to happen.
which means, as long as it didnt happen yet, its no feat for the jailer, and has nothing to do in this discussion.

Danuser compared them to the Titans in a more recent interview, so no.

Also, what do you mean “nothing indicates that”? You just miss out on most of SL’s lore? Or?

[DemonHunter18]

that's not the point, the point is that we fight nathanos and then the cinematic triggers at 10%. Nathanos is literally fighting us in the cinematic as his dialogue is directing at the players before tyrande shows up.

that's actually quite sad lol.

if theory about Elune being the First One is true and First Ones are above the Titans and Tyrande is amped by the First One, then all that amp which is way too much for her to handle was only powerful enough to beat weakened Nathanos LMAO.

big brain at Blizzard.

but anyway, we trailed off topic with all the talk about power levels as if they even mean anything in WoW... or anywhere for that matter xd

[Houle]

Idfk. Some Val’kyr said “oh yeah, Odyn might get mad about the news on Helya, DO NOT be afraid” and then Odyn proceeds to act like we just met him and he sends us to beat down Helya and her forces or some shit. And this is after we beat Denathrius, it’s weird.

However, in the same raid, the Jailer pulls some Sargeras type shit with his gaze, and it’s also weird.

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Danuser compared them to the Titans in a more recent interview, so no.

Also, what do you mean “nothing indicates that”? You just miss out on most of SL’s lore? Or?

as ive said before: danuser makes this shit up as he needs it. until the addon is over, we can argue back and forth on this

pls, enlighten me. where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?
cause what i last heard is that hes trying to claim his "final prize, the secret that the first ones sought to hide". Which does not indicate hes ascending into some god-form. He MIGHT, but nothings even remotely confirmed.
as pretty often, thats merely speculation on your part.

[Soon-TM]

I agree, we should have heard something small during Legion. Helya or Sylvanas, doesn't mater for me should have been used to get some snippes f the Jailer. The feeling of.. something is out there or 'he is coming' type of thing would just spark peoples interest more.

The best is once again, to compare the Blue Man with Sargie boi. The latter was already mentioned in WC2, although by then he seemed to be just a (very) powerful Demon Lord. He's mentioned again during TFT as being the creator of the Legion, and there are multiple mentions to him in Vanilla/Classic quests, and yet again during BC.

Hell, even Garry, another of the most beloved villains of WoW, had a decent buildup all the way from BC to MoP. But the Blue Man of nowadays lives on nothing but shameless retcons, and no, his partner/employee's Sylv terrible writing doesn't help. I mean, if Sylv was meant to be a proxy for giving us a glimpse of Zovaal's power... then the writers just failed.

[DemonHunter18]

Johnstone, I couldn't care less what Betanuser said.

he can be a lead narrative designer for 50 years straight and I still wouldn't trust him.

I wouldn't even trust him to boil my eggs for dinner.

not a single Eternal One is close to being Titan level in power (Denathrius and Archon are the best example of that).

the only Titan like thing about them is the fact that they are the Pantheon of Death.

power wise, they are ants to them.

Titans in their true form cannot be fought by us in any way and iirc they said during Legion that Aggramar would have crushed us if he had his full Titan form.



23:35 we are no match for the real Titan and they would step on us like ants.

meanwhile, Eternal Ones can be fought off.

my last post on the matter.

The best is once again, to compare the Blue Man with Sargie boi. The latter was already mentioned in WC2, although by then he seemed to be just a (very) powerful Demon Lord. He's mentioned again during TFT as being the creator of the Legion, and there are multiple mentions to him in Vanilla/Classic quests, and yet again during BC.

Hell, even Garry, another of the most beloved villains of WoW, had a decent buildup all the way from BC to MoP. But the Blue Man of nowadays lives on nothing but shameless retcons, and no, his partner/employee's Sylv terrible writing doesn't help. I mean, if Sylv was meant to be a proxy for giving us a glimpse of Zovaal's power... then the writers just failed.

well said.

Blue Man... is that his official joke name around here xd

you should add bald

Bluebald Man

[TheFirstOnes]

that's not the point, the point is that we fight nathanos and then the cinematic triggers at 10%. Nathanos is literally fighting us in the cinematic as his dialogue is directing at the players before tyrande shows up.

Yeah, so? The argument made was that he was weakened when Tyrande kills him, and I'm pointing out why that's just bullshit.

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"Titans in their true form cannot be fought by us in any way and iirc they said during Legion that Aggramar would have crushed us if he had full Titan form."

"Ion said this during Legion, so it's valid"

Oh, this is perfect...

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First minute in, btw. Ion compares the Eternal Ones to the Titans in terms of Cosmic Power in the Verse!

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as ive said before: danuser makes this shit up as he needs it. until the addon is over, we can argue back and forth on this

pls, enlighten me. where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?
cause what i last heard is that hes trying to claim his "final prize, the secret that the first ones sought to hide". Which does not indicate hes ascending into some god-form. He MIGHT, but nothings even remotely confirmed.
as pretty often, thats merely speculation on your part.

where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?

Denathrius.

"For the Banished One to reclaim what was his. And once his victory is secured. It will be by HIS WILL that all is washed away. The only power that will emerge from this torrent of change is Death. Death and those who shaped its victory.

The Jailer also wants to chain all existence VIA the Primus telling us, AND the Primus said the Arbiter is the Key. The Attendants also said that IF the Jailer kills the Arbiter, everything the First Ones made would be gone. Which also implies the First Ones made everything!

[Super Dickmann]

The problem with the Blue Man is that he's simultaneously under and overwritten. The way he's underwritten is obvious - he's bland and lacks personality, his grievances are vague and mostly a copy paste of Sargeras, his design is pretty generic. The way he's overwritten is that such a character is perfectly fine as an end of expansion boss or an antagonist. Sargeras has no personality either, he's just a bad man, but the writers used him appropriately as a greater threat we couldn't possibly face, in the background, who auto-killed us as we neared his portal. The Jailer meanwhile makes threats and engages with us, he talks the first we see him, he walks all over the place. He has nothing to say, but say it he does. If he were entirely silent if he didn't leave Torghast and we just saw him in the background he'd not be any more deep, but he'd be far more fit for purpose.

[TheFirstOnes]

So, yeah!

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The problem with the Blue Man is that he's simultaneously under and overwritten. The way he's underwritten is obvious - he's bland and lacks personality, his grievances are vague and mostly a copy paste of Sargeras, his design is pretty generic. The way he's overwritten is that such a character is perfectly fine as an end of expansion boss or an antagonist. Sargeras has no personality either, he's just a bad man, but the writers used him appropriately as a greater threat we couldn't possibly face, in the background, who auto-killed us as we neared his portal. The Jailer meanwhile makes threats and engages with us, he talks the first we see him, he walks all over the place. He has nothing to say, but say it he does. If he were entirely silent if he didn't leave Torghast and we just saw him in the background he'd not be any more deep, but he'd be far more fit for purpose.

Didn't you hear? They made it so that Sargeras is now written like he's just some mad, big dumb idiot.

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Btw, I do agree that the Jailer isn't impressive atm. Doesn't mean anything. If Blizzard says it, and it's consistent, then that's the way it is. Especially since Sargeras and the Jailer have similar gaze's that both seem similar in power.

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We don't know what the Sigils actually allow him to do. And the "ascending" seems to be entirely literal, he is physically moving from the Maw to Oribos.

The ascension seems to be more than just him moving from one area to another. He likely is trying to use the Sigils to "potentially" power him up. All we know is that him gaining all the Sigils is apparently terrifying, and something that should NOT happen, or else the Jailer would be unstoppable or some shit like that.

[huth]

where exactly is it said that by gaining all sigils, the jailer would suddenly rise into some ultra uber-god form, where he basically is the power of death itself?

Denathrius. [video]

"For the Banished One to reclaim what was his. And once his victory is secured. It will be by HIS WILL that all is washed away. The only power that will emerge from this torrent of change is Death. Death and those who shaped its victory.

The Jailer also wants to chain all existence VIA the Primus telling us, AND the Primus said the Arbiter is the Key. The Attendants also said that IF the Jailer kills the Arbiter, everything the First Ones made would be gone. Which also implies the First Ones made everything!

That's his ultimate end goal. The Sigils are described as keys. The logical conclusion here would be that whatever he is looking for is locked behind whatever lock these keys are used for, so only getting the keys will not yet give him that power; he first needs to go to whatever place the lock is.

You're constantly skipping steps in your logic. Slow down a bit and actually think things through.

There's also no implication in this that the First Ones made everything. Destroying everything will naturally also destroy everything made by a specific group, but that doesn't tell you how much of everything that group made, just that their stuff doesn't escape destruction.

[TheFirstOnes]

I think it was the art designer who said that about the Titan Keepers. Still, the story writers had to give him all the information necessary for him to create their designs.



don't forget Archon struggled with her underlings and was even beaten by one, not to mention Denathrius was beaten by us so no way any of them is Titan level.

they are, by their portrayal, Titan Keeper level like the concept artist said.

P.S Johnstone, Sargeras didn't just beat 5 planet sized beings. he overpowered and wrecked 5 Godlike beings who were the rulers of Magic, Time, Sky, Earth and Life.

Also, I know how powerful the Titans are. I also know the Titans can be surpassed, and that the Players also need to fight greater foes/beings, as it's the natural laws of progression.

Think of it like Dragon Ball, but with Fantasy shit such as Magic, haxes, and shit.

[huth]

The ascension seems to be more than just him moving from one area to another. He likely is trying to use the Sigils to "potentially" power him up. All we know is that him gaining all the Sigils is apparently terrifying, and something that should NOT happen, or else the Jailer would be unstoppable or some shit like that.

Based on what we know so far, the ascension is really just him moving from Torghast to Oribos. The rest is your speculation, nothing more.
Him getting the Sigils is terrifying not because of what the Sigils make him, but because of what they enable him to do. They are the keys, not the prize behind the lock.