[Potential spoilers]Sylvanas, the Convergence of the Shadowlands, and the Great Truth

[Sondrelk]

At this point it's starting to become obvious that "the Purpose" is some kind of mechanical order set up by the First Ones, and that the Jailer and Sylvanas just want to break free from it in the name of free will and self-determination.

The Jailer is Illidan 2.0

I think the difference here is that the Jailer and Sylvanas have yet to give a real reason why the current system is so horrible. At best it just looks like Sylvanas is pissy that she cannot go to heaven after being evil.

More importantly though is that the solution they seemingly give is to just destroy everything and kill everyone.


One of the gravest sins a writer can make is to have a resolution be at odds with the way the story is told. If a story is about a foster kid who gains friends and a loving family through a caring system you cannot then have the resolution be that the foster system is terrible.
Similarly the story in Shadowlands is that everyone goes to a fair afterlife, with at worst a few stragglers that are misjudged, mostly based around the Kyrians. You cannot then have the story end by telling us that this is not how it is supposed to work. We have yet to even see a fundamental flaw in how the afterlife works that needs rectifying outside the specific case of the Kyrians, and even then it seems more that the problem is that they don't want to give massive powers to those that intend ot use it for the wrong reasons.

[TickTickTick]

I've been saying it for a while. We defeat Sylvanas but then the Jailer launches his invasion of Azeroth. 9.3 is on Azeroth fighting back the Scourge and Shadowlands forces. Possibly with revamped Northrend zone(s).

Tbh I'd love it if it turned out Sylvanas was just a pawn in the Jailer's game and he never meant to realize the plan she's been working on. That all he really cared about is claiming Azeroth the titan (because for some time now there have been implications that Azeroth is the most important thing in the universe). And he just used Sylvanas to free himself and in his vision of the future he's the master of the universe and everyone ends as a nameless soul-fuel, Sylvanas included. What a shock it would be to her.

What really got me into this idea was the confirmation that the Nathrezim are under Denathrius' command. Whether he's their master or the Jailer is (and Denathrius is just THE main Nathrezim) is to be found out. But what we know is the Nathrezim pushed Sargeras into the Burning Crusade with claiming the Azeroth titan as an end goal. Maybe the plan was for Sargeras to claim it in the name of the Jailer (either willingly or not)? And since Sargeras failed, the Jailer decided to work on plan B (which, suspiciously, starts with Argus' death and that weird red blast pacifying the Arbiter)?

[Gaidax]

I think that Oribos will be destroyed. You can actually see a ruin of a city like Oribos in Korthia.
And seeing the footage of Tazavesh makes me think that this is too detailed to be just a dungeon. There are Mail boxes and i saw a building perfect to be a bank.
My guess is Oribos will be destroyed in 8.1 and a cleared out Tazavesh will be our new main city.

That would be cool, though I think that probably Jailer will storm through Oribos and move on to Azeroth - he seems to want to break out of Shadowlands.

As a matter of fact, I almost expect the last raid to be Anduin returning to Stormwind, Arthas style, to take it for Jailer.

[TickTickTick]

As a matter of fact, I almost expect the last raid to be Anduin returning to Stormwind, Arthas style, to take it for Jailer.

This could be a bit too dramatic and I'm sure there's one particular user who'd hate the idea, but... How cool it'd be if Anduin, under the Jailer's control, killed both Turalyon and Alleria? This would be both very personal and emotional, and the Jailer would prove the Death's dominion over the Light and the Void.

[Sondrelk]

This could be a bit too dramatic and I'm sure there's one particular user who'd hate the idea, but... How cool it'd be if Anduin, under the Jailer's control, killed both Turalyon and Alleria? This would be both very personal and emotional, and the Jailer would prove the Death's dominion over the Light and the Void.

Seems like overkill to have him kill Turalyon or Alleria, never mind both.

Would be great to have him return to Stormwind and we have to stop him though.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Ahh, so redemption it is. I just hope that the whole story will not turn me off like it did in BFA where I completely lost my will and purpose. I still wanna help Odyn to recover his eye though. I think the Jailer is using it. Also the Halls of Valor pretty much resembles Elysian Hold in Bastion. I have been always thinking that I have seen this somewhere. Now I know it.

[Wrathson]

Are there any screenshots of the ruined cities? Sounds interesting

I just saw it when Asmongold explored the new zone. Here is a video with Timestamp.
The architecture, especially the inner circle looks just like Oribos.

https://youtu.be/DGJGb0gIuh8?t=1396

[TheFirstOnes]

That would be cool, though I think that probably Jailer will storm through Oribos and move on to Azeroth - he seems to want to break out of Shadowlands.

As a matter of fact, I almost expect the last raid to be Anduin returning to Stormwind, Arthas style, to take it for Jailer.

I literally expect the SW invasion shit to be the 10.0 pre-patch. Also, the Jailer wants to escape the Maw, that's it. He wants total control over the Shadowlands and Death atm, however.

[Varodoc]

Seems like overkill to have him kill Turalyon or Alleria, never mind both.

Would be great to have him return to Stormwind and we have to stop him though.

Alleria and Turalyon are the most popular and iconic WC2 characters, Blizzard isn't going to kill them, and especially not that easily.

[Yayeet]

I think that Oribos will be destroyed. You can actually see a ruin of a city like Oribos in Korthia.
And seeing the footage of Tazavesh makes me think that this is too detailed to be just a dungeon. There are Mail boxes and i saw a building perfect to be a bank.
My guess is Oribos will be destroyed in 8.1 and a cleared out Tazavesh will be our new main city.

No.

Korthia is the portion of the land where oribos' base was originally attached to. Until they sunk that mass.

[TheFirstOnes]

No.

Korthia is the portion of the land where oribos' base was originally attached to. Until they sunk that mass.

That is literally not the case.

[kaintk]

no way...she did worse things than garrosh,zero chance they do this....not everyone is an illidan

they will do a redemption arc because blizzard are sjw/woke now, you missed the information ? just look at their rainbow color logo in the last blizzcon lol, you really think they will kill her ? good one...

she killed almost all elves, burning the tree, nearly wipeout the worgen, killed thousand of alliance people, but, heh ! she's a waman, you must not kill her or sjw people will cry about it on twitter

[TheFirstOnes]

they will do a redemption arc because blizzard are sjw/woke now, you missed the information ? just look at their rainbow color logo in the last blizzcon lol, you really think they will kill her ? good one...

she killed almost all elves, burning the tree, nearly wipeout the worgen, killed thousand of alliance people, but, heh ! she's a waman, you must not kill her or sjw people will cry about it on twitter

Let's not go that far. Besides, Sylvanas is essentially a throwaway at the end of the day. The Jailer's the big boi.

[deenman]

they will do a redemption arc because blizzard are sjw/woke now, you missed the information ? just look at their rainbow color logo in the last blizzcon lol, you really think they will kill her ? good one...

she killed almost all elves, burning the tree, nearly wipeout the worgen, killed thousand of alliance people, but, heh ! she's a waman, you must not kill her or sjw people will cry about it on twitter

uhm,is that why every other woman villain in wow was also killed or defeated?the only one that didnt ''die'' was azshara,but she was basicaly taken by nzoth as a gimmick in the next raid,and wile she also caused much bad stuff to happen,its never rly shown and told as directly as with sylvanas

there is no ''sjw/woke/dogwhistle that will redeem sylvanas from burning innocent kids alive

[Houle]

Alleria and Turalyon are the most popular and iconic WC2 characters, Blizzard isn't going to kill them, and especially not that easily.

yeah, just like we arent going to kill ner'zhul, one of the main characters in Wc2 AND Wc3, as a random throw-away raidboss next patch or kel'thuzad, fan favourite since Wc3
dont fool urself, blizz doesnt give a fuck about the legacy of the characters, if their names arent arthas, illidan or sylvanas

[Wangming]

Question. If during this raid the Jailer goes to Oribos and Sylvanas destroys torghast (or somethin) are people really expecting two more patches out of this story?

- - - Updated - - -

Let's not go that far. Besides, Sylvanas is essentially a throwaway at the end of the day. The Jailer's the big boi.

Nope. From a cosmic standpoint maybe. From a franchise standpoint? The Jailer is a fucking nobody while Sylvanas is one of the faces of WarCraft, featuring in more opening cinematics than any other character.

[Shoggoth]

I've been saying it for a while. We defeat Sylvanas but then the Jailer launches his invasion of Azeroth. 9.3 is on Azeroth fighting back the Scourge and Shadowlands forces. Possibly with revamped Northrend zone(s).

A revamp of Northrend for one patch? I doubt it.

[Varodoc]

Question. If during this raid the Jailer goes to Oribos and Sylvanas destroys torghast (or somethin) are people really expecting two more patches out of this story?

No. I've been speculating for some time that this will be another 2 patch expansion like WoD.

And it doesn't necessarily correlate to lore either. It's easy to see why marketing-wise it'd be smarter to push for a 2 patch expansion. 9.1 is already coming very late, 10.0 would have to come out in 2023 if they intend to push for a 9.3 patch... and that's simply too late for a new expansion, it would mean a significant money loss for Activision Blizzard.

Seems like the story is already wrapping up to. Jailer is literally attacking Oribos where the final key is (Arbiter), it doesn't take a genius to figure out 9.2 is likely going to be the final patch of Shadowlands.

[leorana]

I think the difference here is that the Jailer and Sylvanas have yet to give a real reason why the current system is so horrible. At best it just looks like Sylvanas is pissy that she cannot go to heaven after being evil.

More importantly though is that the solution they seemingly give is to just destroy everything and kill everyone.


One of the gravest sins a writer can make is to have a resolution be at odds with the way the story is told. If a story is about a foster kid who gains friends and a loving family through a caring system you cannot then have the resolution be that the foster system is terrible.
Similarly the story in Shadowlands is that everyone goes to a fair afterlife, with at worst a few stragglers that are misjudged, mostly based around the Kyrians. You cannot then have the story end by telling us that this is not how it is supposed to work. We have yet to even see a fundamental flaw in how the afterlife works that needs rectifying outside the specific case of the Kyrians, and even then it seems more that the problem is that they don't want to give massive powers to those that intend ot use it for the wrong reasons.

You don't need them to explain it to you when you can see for yourself the machine is broken.

A kyrian can decide on his own to dump a soul into the maw without judgment (Arthas), or just mindlessly carry good people to the maw just because the Arbiter is "out of order".

I have no idea what are they suggesting instead, but given an eternity of undeserving torrment or simply ceasing to exist - I'll take the latter.

[Gravemind]

You don't need them to explain it to you when you can see for yourself the machine is broken.

A kyrian can decide on his own to dump a soul into the maw without judgment (Arthas), or just mindlessly carry good people to the maw just because the Arbiter is "out of order".

I have no idea what are they suggesting instead, but given an eternity of undeserving torrment or simply ceasing to exist - I'll take the latter.

Both of which were caused by the Jailer lol

Jailer: *breaks the machine*
Also Jailer: look guys the machine is broken we should just destroy it