[Potential spoilers]Sylvanas, the Convergence of the Shadowlands, and the Great Truth

[kaelix1]

no way...she did worse things than garrosh,zero chance they do this....not everyone is an illidan

agree,the number of atrocities she did was equal if not more than Arthas, no way there is a redemption arc here, her story is done once shadowlands is over i don't see a reason to keep her, she had enough spotlight, its time other characters to shine

[TheFirstOnes]

Yes, this is precisely why Jailer is not and will never be as iconic as Sargeras and N'Zoth.

Sargeras and N'Zoth were actually built up throughout many expansions and their deeds were portrayed in a way that felt natural. Sargeras has been built up since WC3 with the Tomb of Sargeras and he obviously had a lot of screentime in the War of the Ancients novels, N'Zoth was built up since Cataclysm as the mastermind who orchestrated Deathwing's rise and the Cataclysm.

Jailer? Like you said he literally came out of nowhere in this expansion. And while some around this forum might be in awe at how much stuff he "planned" and "influenced" (not making names), it is all extremely artificial. It's easy to be influential when Blizzard retcons half the established lore for you.

In other words, Sargeras and N'Zoth levelled to 60 the old way, while Jailer bought the level boost.

With the new lore, it's implied the Jailer did shit WAY before Sargeras and the Void Lords. So, idk. Also, while Sargeras was built up, he was nothing but a voice, with his minions essentially doing most of the work for him. Same thing with N'Zoth. Sargeras in GAME mostly just stabbed Azeroth and called it a day, while N'Zoth got Kamehameha'd by a World Soul infused Champion with the power of the Reorigination device.

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I just imagine Icecrown Citadel basically being the carbon copy of Torghast in Azeroth. With the Chains he‘s trying to anchor the Shadowlands to Azeroth. So basically the chains he‘s throwing out from Torghast directly anchor on top of Icecrown.

It‘s hard to explain, but I try to visualize it:

> | <

> the pointy end is the top of Torghast
< the pointy end is the top of Icecrown Citadel
| is the veil the Jailer is breaking through

(Now just imagine it 90 degrees turned around where it‘s top = Azeroth and bottom = Shadowlands)

I...like that actually. Also, what if the Jailer knows that Azeroth is like infused with the First Ones' power and whatnot, hence why he wants to get there in the first place. He goes in there, extracts Azeroth's "secret" AKA power for himself, THEN BAM! The Jailer wielding the might of the First.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

There is more intriguing stuff. Not sure what does it mean exactly, but possibly might be given some sort of choice whether to spare her life or kill her. I'm just speculating. There is also a banshee form ability that allows you to fly, which is quite interesting as the location where the fight will take place.

[deenman]

agree,the number of atrocities she did was equal if not more than Arthas, no way there is a redemption arc here, her story is done once shadowlands is over i don't see a reason to keep her, she had enough spotlight, its time other characters to shine

the only thing i potentialy see done for her is replacing the jailor,but idk if thats redemption or a form of eternal punishment

[TheFirstOnes]

There is more intriguing stuff. Not sure what does it mean exactly, but possibly might be given some sort of choice whether to spare her life or kill her. I'm just speculating. There is also a banshee form ability that allows you to fly, which is quite interesting as the location where the fight will take place.

He gains the sigils + the Arbiter's sigil = He gains full control of the Realms of Death, and with those Keys of power, he'll use his newfound might to enter Reality in the hopes of claiming the Final Prize, so that he could finally have the ultimate power for himself.

[lockybalboa]

Brain-dead would be killing off one of the most popular characters in 30 years of lore as an unambiguous villain. You will alienate far more of your audience doing that than by killing her with some sort of Darth Vader moment tacked on at the end. They need to stop measuring the direction of the lore by what makes their (mostly Alliance) content creators pump their fist on twitch.

So it's just about merchandise sales for you rather than quality writing eh? Many fans are already sick of Blizzard shitty characterization of her in recent years and would rather she be killed off rather than being continually butchered by Blizzard's awful writing. The Sylvanas of old is long gone pal

[Alanar]

He gains the sigils + the Arbiter's sigil = He gains full control of the Realms of Death, and with those Keys of power, he'll use his newfound might to enter Reality in the hopes of claiming the Final Prize, so that he could finally have the ultimate power for himself.

Nice fantheory, but that is obviously not entirely happening. This is world of warcraft, we might fail a bit. But will always end on top. What you said is end of life basically.

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There is more intriguing stuff. Not sure what does it mean exactly, but possibly might be given some sort of choice whether to spare her life or kill her. I'm just speculating. There is also a banshee form ability that allows you to fly, which is quite interesting as the location where the fight will take place.

She could just hover above the boss platform while shooting some banshee lasers and the raid kills some adds while she is up.

[TheFirstOnes]

Nice fantheory, but that is obviously not entirely happening. This is world of warcraft, we might fail a bit. But will always end on top. What you said is end of life basically.

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She could just hover above the boss platform, while the raid kills some adds .

What I said was his goal. What I KNOW is that we'll kick his ass.

[Alanar]

the only thing i potentialy see done for her is replacing the jailor,but idk if thats redemption or a form of eternal punishment

Why replace him? He was chained all this time, what would we miss if we get rid of him. We will have the rest of the shadowlands forces behind us.

[TheFirstOnes]

Why replace him? He was chained all this time, what would we miss if we get rid of him. We will have the rest of the shadowlands forces behind us.

Seems like that's gonna do fuck all though, especially for this patch. Funny enough, this shit kinda reminds of when Sargeras fought the Titan Pantheon, but take that...and make it 50 times more fucked and one sided for the Jailer.

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the only thing i potentialy see done for her is replacing the jailor,but idk if thats redemption or a form of eternal punishment

Idk. What I assume is that, by the end of 9.1, the Jailer will win, and likely put Sylvanas somewhere by his side, or maybe even leave her. I mean, the Maw post SoD is Red with Purple in it.

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Then again, that COULD just be the Maw at the end of the 9.1 questline.

[Alanar]

Seems like that's gonna do fuck all though, especially for this patch. Funny enough, this shit kinda reminds of when Sargeras fought the Titan Pantheon, but take that...and make it 50 times more fucked and one sided for the Jailer.

What do you mean fuck all? Like all of shadowlands?

Highly doubt it tho.. bolvar is not on hes throne and azeroth is just fine. Just kill the bigblueman and voila. If they come up with the same shit as the end of icc I will laugh my ass off, but yea knowing blizz they will pull the same sillyness.

Like idk what hes jailing besides all those stolen souls. Seems stupid to replace something we dont need.

[TheFirstOnes]

What do you mean fuck all? Like all of shadowlands?

Highly doubt it tho.. bolvar is not on hes throne and azeroth is just fine. Just kill the bigblueman and voila. If they come up with the same shit as the end of icc I will laugh my ass off, but yea knowing blizz they will pull the same sillyness.

Like idk what hes jailing besides all those stolen souls. Seems stupid to replace something we dont need.

Maybe. Also, he's doing more than just Jailing.

Also, yeah, I mean the Pantheon of Death, the MAIN Eternal Ones. They're doing fuck all. Except for Denathrius, who got yeeted outta the holy mirror by his Nosferatu and Count Chocula buds.

[Soon-TM]

If there's any way I want things to go now, it would be Mawduin killing Sylvanas. She had the opportunity to listen to him and let him go, failed, and deserves the consequences.

No, nelfs don't need to be any more cucked than what they already are. If Sylv is going to be killed (something I REALLY doubt it happens), she definitely should die at Tyrande's hands. Mawduin can go lay waste to SW and half of Azeroth for all I care.

[Alanar]

Maybe. Also, he's doing more than just Jailing.

Also, yeah, I mean the Pantheon of Death, the MAIN Eternal Ones. They're doing fuck all. Except for Denathrius, who got yeeted outta the holy mirror by his Nosferatu and Count Chocula buds.

Yea again.. its just that we know jack shit about the bald guy. Surely they will pull something. Msybe by 9.3 we have uther being a heroic and shit and take that mantle cus He didnt find rest and he needs it yadada. Could see that happen if blizz pulls the WE ALWAYS NEED A JAILER.

Anyway the point was.. what would we miss if we get rid of him?

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No, nelfs don't need to be any more cucked than what they already are. If Sylv is going to be killed (something I REALLY doubt it happens), she definitely should die at Tyrande's hands. Mawduin can go lay waste to SW and half of Azeroth for all I care.

It would be even better if we have a jailer controller Nathanos killing her. That would hit her harder then that stupid night warrior shit no one cares about.

[Soon-TM]

It should've been more simply in my opinion; just make Sylvie the baddie who is trying to undo the system because she's pissy that bad things happened to her, and she's objectively bad because she's trying to destroy a system that's working perfectly.

I think that would be too on the nose even for Danuser's standards, but it would at least make sense, dull as it would be.

Contrariwise, they could have gone fully down the traditional Greco-Roman pantheon way, showing how that these deathly entities don't actually give a !@#$ about the mortals (you could throw one or two exceptions here) and are only interested in their own petty internal quarrels. That would at least give a little more nuance (as Danuser likes to say) to the Blue Man and his associate/employee Sylv, in the sense that they would have some actual grounds to act upon, instead of REEEEEEEEEEEE I R EVUL LOLZ

[dope_danny]

There is no way she doesn't do some kerrigan 2.0 shit like reveal it was all a giga-redemption arc "because yeah i committed genocide but a moments pain is better than an eternity in the maw" and she will either become a kyrian or the arbiter or something equally cringe.

Because WoW was always Sylvanus' story and we were the spectators now. Don't question it "champion"

[Le Conceptuel]

I think that would be too on the nose even for Danuser's standards, but it would at least make sense, dull as it would be.

Contrariwise, they could have gone fully down the traditional Greco-Roman pantheon way, showing how that these deathly entities don't actually give a !@#$ about the mortals (you could throw one or two exceptions here) and are only interested in their own petty internal quarrels. That would at least give a little more nuance (as Danuser likes to say) to the Blue Man and his associate/employee Sylv, in the sense that they would have some actual grounds to act upon, instead of REEEEEEEEEEEE I R EVUL LOLZ

These days, you'd be surprised at the amount of spite people can hold to systems that work fine because bad things happened to them once.

[Nyel]

I...like that actually. Also, what if the Jailer knows that Azeroth is like infused with the First Ones' power and whatnot, hence why he wants to get there in the first place. He goes in there, extracts Azeroth's "secret" AKA power for himself, THEN BAM! The Jailer wielding the might of the First.

Yea, we saw the top of thorghast upside down from icc. I got ya, I was thinking the same thing

That line or barrier that got shattered is what we see in the sky. The blue sky is azeroth. I cant think of anything else what could make sense.

If we have to believe the escending.. to be the jailers way to go to azeroth, will be from there.

Yeah, this is basically how I imagine 9.1 to end.

[Stormdash]

So it's just about merchandise sales for you rather than quality writing eh? Many fans are already sick of Blizzard shitty characterization of her in recent years and would rather she be killed off rather than being continually butchered by Blizzard's awful writing. The Sylvanas of old is long gone pal

Oh, did I give you the impression that a rational or literary minded person could consider the black-hat Sylvanas shift since late in "Legion" to be quality writing? I'm sorry. No, only a facile dilettante of genre fiction could consider the "suddenly, Sylvanas was completely uncomplicated and evil, and did bad things until she died" direction in the last few years to be good writing.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah, this is basically how I imagine 9.1 to end.

Oh, I wasn't talking 9.1. I was talking overall, like in 9.2 or some shit. Also, I can't see the pic. Then again, my internet's been weird today.

Also, this could be the perfect lead into a Void expac.