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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    The "End Time" dungeon in Cata was a potential future. According to Murozond, that future (as seen in the dungeon) was a better outcome than the true End Time. Whatver the true End Time is supposed to be for our prime timeline -- whether it be Old God victory (doubtful now), the Jailer wins (our current fight), or victory of another enemy (yet to be revealed) -- it supposed to be much, much worse than a dead planet conquered by the Old Gods.


    That said, the 4 major players of that dungeon are major players in the story currently, so it could just be coincidence. I do hope the Infinite Dragonflight have a bigger story arc in the future.
    I always took the True End Time to be the Hour of Twilight as described in Chronicles - the ultimate victory of the Void.

  2. #82
    My idea is that basically every character, even the supposedly 'good ones', could be potentially made into PvE and raidcontent for future expansions, as such some of the foes that would make for interesting expansion themes are:

    - the Dragonflights
    - The Titans
    - Tyrande & Malfurion // the Wild Gods // Elune ?
    - Velen & the Draenei (probably in function of an anticipated 'Light themed' expansion)
    - ...
    - The One and Only, the Legendary, the Mighty - You might recognize me from the forum signatures of lesser mortals obsessed with me. -
    Vexing little man-babies and normies on the internet since before you were born.

  3. #83
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    neither, the end of time is officially avoided in Cata
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Not THAT Deathwing. The awesome Deathwing was the original one that was brilliant, that plotted schemed and infiltrated. That turned people against each other. HE was a great villain. The writers completely destroyed the character by turning him into some mindless crazed idiot in Cata.
    When did you encounter that version?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    When did you encounter that version?
    He's talking about his appearance in Warcraft II and the novels around that time with the Daval Prestor plot.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Catclysm dungeon, Nozdormu became Murozond.
    A fight against Sylvanas, Tyrande, Baine and Jaina.
    Do you think End Times is happening now or after dealing with Shadowlands heralds End Times?


    New broadcast text from the returned Primus:Come. There is much to do, and the Shadowlands must know that I have returned in this twilight hour.
    Honestly it wouldn't surprise me to see Deathwing again now that you mention it.
    They bound and banished him with all manner of power, but very little of that has much to mean in the Shadowlands.

    And since a lot of players were very unhappy about the way we killed him, well, he might be due for a retrial.

    That said it seems obvious that the void is playing death and not the other way around, so those "twilight times" likely do indeed refer to the void and the old gods.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    He's talking about his appearance in Warcraft II and the novels around that time with the Daval Prestor plot.
    Aah makes sense, thanks.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Like I said, it's stated she's bound to Ardenweald. There's no going around that. The Winter Queen had to give her own power to keep Ysera's spirit going and that caused her to be bound to the realm.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Awaken_the_Dreamer

    She's a special case for "Wild Gods" where she cannot leave.

    - - - Updated - - -



    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Court_of_Winter
    Eh.

    Considering the whole premise of her rebirth is based on fiction, its just as easy to write her out of Aedenweald and back into Azeroth.

    Enter Dragon Isles and the titan artifact, the Dragon Originizer, that is capable of reforming the Aspects as they were originally. We all know Blizzard would do it just to sacrifice them all again in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Eh.

    Considering the whole premise of her rebirth is based on fiction, its just as easy to write her out of Aedenweald and back into Azeroth.

    Enter Dragon Isles and the titan artifact, the Dragon Originizer, that is capable of reforming the AspectTs as they were originally. We all know Blizzard would do it just to sacrifice them all again in the future.
    Another question that for me is still left unanswered is the spectral form of Ysera drawn towards a Spectral flower. What happened to it after Ysera can now be found in Ardenweald? Is it still there?
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-20 at 09:09 PM.

  10. #90
    If things hold true it will lead to another "faction war" because that seems to be their go to every other expansion.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    If things hold true it will lead to another "faction war" because that seems to be their go to every other expansion.
    I think that is expected but the next cause would be fight for survival and not for resources.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Something I'm confused about that is since Nozdormu put his energy into making Deathwing's death a fixed point that can't be undone, does that completely remove End Time as a possibility?
    Yes. How the Bronze Dragon powers seem to work is that they see a probable time-line, and they open a path to it.
    Nozdormu created the End Time timeline to avoid a future that he saw as far worse. When he fixed Deathwings Death in time, he made End Time impossible to happen, because Deathwing's death is 100% probable.

    Now, seeing as the Infinite Dragonflight still exists, we can guess that we didn't reach and prevent the future that Nozdormu saw and led him to become Murozond.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Eh.

    Considering the whole premise of her rebirth is based on fiction, its just as easy to write her out of Aedenweald and back into Azeroth.

    Enter Dragon Isles and the titan artifact, the Dragon Originizer, that is capable of reforming the Aspects as they were originally. We all know Blizzard would do it just to sacrifice them all again in the future.
    While it's true that they COULD write her back into the story, there's absolutely no way they would. Writers don't set up a roadblock just to IMMEDIATELY tear it down. Roadblocks exist for story reasons.

    If Ysera cannot be brought back to Azeroth due to the events of Shadowlands, the presumption is that Blizzard has a plan that involves Ysera remaining in the Shadowlands - Not just being ripped back to Azeroth with no change whatsoever.

    Also, you might want to remind yourself - The entirety of WoW is based on fiction. It's a fictional game. That doesn't mean the game doesn't set constraints on it's story from time to time in order to tell a well thought out vision. At some point, you need a set of rules to follow, or the fiction is more "nonsense" than fiction.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-04-21 at 06:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    While it's true that they COULD write her back into the story, there's absolutely no way they would. Writers don't set up a roadblock just to IMMEDIATELY tear it down. Roadblocks exist for story reasons.
    We're talking about WoW here, where entire chunks of plot gets left behind just because they choose not to deal with it.

    Writers also set up the story hooks of who would become the next Warchief after Garrosh, causing a huge debate amongst fans. It was finally concluded with being Vol'jin, who would usher in a new era of the Horde - which never really got addressed since the next expansion took us straight into alternate timeline/dimension/reality Draenor, and before we formally started questing in the Broken Isles, Vol'jin dies and passed the baton off to Sylvanas.

    They set up the domino and knocked it down almost immediately. Vol'jin did practically nothing for the duration we knew him as Warchief, only aiding the Alliance in one fight in the Broken Shore and dying right after that.

    Or what about Garrosh himself? We spend an entire expansion building up a force and uniting the factions to take him down, and formally putting him in chains. And before the next expansion even starts, he's already escaped and causing more chaos. It's like imprisoning him didn't even matter; and from a fictional standpoint it doesn't since they're literally the ones writing it.

    This is just one of dozens of examples of the story hooks going nowhere. Neptulon going missing in Cata only to appear fine in Legion. Malfurion was stuck in the Emerald Nightmare and that all gets resolved off screen (Yes, Novel was convenient but it's not resolved in game) where he simply back in Cata.

    If Ysera cannot be brought back to Azeroth due to the events of Shadowlands, the presumption is that Blizzard has a plan that involves Ysera remaining in the Shadowlands - Not just being ripped back to Azeroth with no change whatsoever.

    Also, you might want to remind yourself - The entirety of WoW is based on fiction. It's a fictional game. That doesn't mean the game doesn't set constraints on it's story from time to time in order to tell a well thought out vision. At some point, you need a set of rules to follow, or the fiction is more "nonsense" than fiction.
    It all serves the story. More specifically, it serves *the way they want to tell* the story, more than the cohesiveness of the plot.

    Ysera being reborn is already contrary to showing her death in Legion, which implied a permanent death. That she was able to be brought back at all can be considered tearing down a certain roadblock. That she is bound to Ardenweald does not always mean Blizzard won't bring her back, they'll do whatever is necessary to serve the next point of plot, just as she exists today instead of simply being 'part of the cosmos' and left as a piece of Warcraft history. In a way, Ardenweald was created for the purpose of bringing Ysera back. The fact that they showed characters like Ursoc going here after death to wait for a cycle of rebirth shows that this place was intended to allow dead demigod lore characters to return to the world without associating it to the Emerald Dream the way they brought back Cenarius in Cataclysm. Ardenweald was designed for this purpose. They could absolutely write in that Ysera is bound in Ardenweald, and just as easily it could be seen as a continuation of her story to have the champions to free her from Ardenweald should the possibility present itself, because story reasons.

    BFA made a point of Sylvanas raising new Dark Rangers in a shocking act at the Burning of Tel'drassil, only to abandon all the Dark Rangers completely by the end of BFA. It doesn't make sense either, but that's what Blizzard chose to do with the story they wanted to tell. Raising Kal'dorei Dark Rangers served almost zero purpose in the story other than shock value, and even now they serve absolutely no purpose in the story. I don't think Blizzard actually plans too far ahead for what they actually want to do with the story, it's more a matter of writing for the purpose of pulling people's emotions left and right instead of properly setting up a purpose for every character they add to the plot. I'd argue that the fiction as it stands is not all that 'well thought out', and is full of nonsense whether they stick to their own canon or not.

    Then there's this

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ra-zone/356510

    The devs directly addressed that the giant Goblin cannon in Azshara will be fired. It wasn't used at all. I'm not sure how well planned everything is if even the writers aren't even making use of all the plot seeds that they've planted. We could say 'well they didn't say when, they probably mean far in the future' but then that's not really being well-thought out, that's just keeping possibilities open without having to address a loose end, and misleading fans in the meantime by addressing it directly.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-04-21 at 07:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #95
    There are only two ways I see Deathwing returning in the story as an active character. 1: we encounter him in the shadowlands and just interact with him there like other characters. 2: my complete weird theory that the dragon soul didn’t kill Deathwing but split him similar to how onyxia split varian. Then both versions of him would probably be saved for the dragon isles.

    Though most likely not happening as much as I would like because I love Deathwing.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack-Attack View Post
    There are only two ways I see Deathwing returning in the story as an active character. 1: we encounter him in the shadowlands and just interact with him there like other characters. 2: my complete weird theory that the dragon soul didn’t kill Deathwing but split him similar to how onyxia split varian. Then both versions of him would probably be saved for the dragon isles.

    Though most likely not happening as much as I would like because I love Deathwing.
    But we know that dragons can be reanimated. Take Onyxia for example and Nefarian in Cataclysm.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    But we know that dragons can be reanimated. Take Onyxia for example and Nefarian in Cataclysm.
    Great, an animated giant chin. I'm sure everybody will be down on the ground laughing while it annihilates us all.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Great, an animated giant chin. I'm sure everybody will be down on the ground laughing while it annihilates us all.
    Or perhaps a chinless Deathwing like one of the Undead face with tongue drooping and hanging.. He once again crash lands on Stormwind/Oggri at to claim his metal chin plate and be part of the raid before suiciding in Wyrmrest Temple.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-23 at 02:27 AM.

  19. #99
    But if End Time is just one possiblity on how things could have ended that did not come to pass, that means Murozond dies differently, no? Or can certain events just be pulled as real and others discarded from the same timeline?

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Or perhaps a chinless Deathwing like one of the Undead face with tongue dropping and hanging..
    There's no body left with which to resurrect Deathwing, except two distinct chin chunks that hang in Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

    The only piece that COULD exist naturally would be the chin. Everything else would have to be magically reconstructed. Which would be especially difficult since we destroyed Onyxia and Nefarian's remains as well, leaving very few relatives left who could serve as replacement parts.

    And since Wrathion hasn't died yet and shows no sign of doing so soon, I doubt they plan to use him in such a wasteful way.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

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