Will Shadowlands be lead to the End of Times or Is it the End of Times?

[Alanar]

He's talking about his appearance in Warcraft II and the novels around that time with the Daval Prestor plot.

Aah makes sense, thanks.

[Triceron]

Like I said, it's stated she's bound to Ardenweald. There's no going around that. The Winter Queen had to give her own power to keep Ysera's spirit going and that caused her to be bound to the realm.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Awaken_the_Dreamer

She's a special case for "Wild Gods" where she cannot leave.

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https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Court_of_Winter

Eh.

Considering the whole premise of her rebirth is based on fiction, its just as easy to write her out of Aedenweald and back into Azeroth.

Enter Dragon Isles and the titan artifact, the Dragon Originizer, that is capable of reforming the Aspects as they were originally. We all know Blizzard would do it just to sacrifice them all again in the future.

[vertigo12]

Eh.

Considering the whole premise of her rebirth is based on fiction, its just as easy to write her out of Aedenweald and back into Azeroth.

Enter Dragon Isles and the titan artifact, the Dragon Originizer, that is capable of reforming the AspectTs as they were originally. We all know Blizzard would do it just to sacrifice them all again in the future.

Another question that for me is still left unanswered is the spectral form of Ysera drawn towards a Spectral flower. What happened to it after Ysera can now be found in Ardenweald? Is it still there?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If things hold true it will lead to another "faction war" because that seems to be their go to every other expansion.

[vertigo12]

If things hold true it will lead to another "faction war" because that seems to be their go to every other expansion.

I think that is expected but the next cause would be fight for survival and not for resources.

[pacotaco]

Something I'm confused about that is since Nozdormu put his energy into making Deathwing's death a fixed point that can't be undone, does that completely remove End Time as a possibility?

Yes. How the Bronze Dragon powers seem to work is that they see a probable time-line, and they open a path to it.
Nozdormu created the End Time timeline to avoid a future that he saw as far worse. When he fixed Deathwings Death in time, he made End Time impossible to happen, because Deathwing's death is 100% probable.

Now, seeing as the Infinite Dragonflight still exists, we can guess that we didn't reach and prevent the future that Nozdormu saw and led him to become Murozond.

[Triceron]

While it's true that they COULD write her back into the story, there's absolutely no way they would. Writers don't set up a roadblock just to IMMEDIATELY tear it down. Roadblocks exist for story reasons.

We're talking about WoW here, where entire chunks of plot gets left behind just because they choose not to deal with it.

Writers also set up the story hooks of who would become the next Warchief after Garrosh, causing a huge debate amongst fans. It was finally concluded with being Vol'jin, who would usher in a new era of the Horde - which never really got addressed since the next expansion took us straight into alternate timeline/dimension/reality Draenor, and before we formally started questing in the Broken Isles, Vol'jin dies and passed the baton off to Sylvanas.

They set up the domino and knocked it down almost immediately. Vol'jin did practically nothing for the duration we knew him as Warchief, only aiding the Alliance in one fight in the Broken Shore and dying right after that.

Or what about Garrosh himself? We spend an entire expansion building up a force and uniting the factions to take him down, and formally putting him in chains. And before the next expansion even starts, he's already escaped and causing more chaos. It's like imprisoning him didn't even matter; and from a fictional standpoint it doesn't since they're literally the ones writing it.

This is just one of dozens of examples of the story hooks going nowhere. Neptulon going missing in Cata only to appear fine in Legion. Malfurion was stuck in the Emerald Nightmare and that all gets resolved off screen (Yes, Novel was convenient but it's not resolved in game) where he simply back in Cata.

If Ysera cannot be brought back to Azeroth due to the events of Shadowlands, the presumption is that Blizzard has a plan that involves Ysera remaining in the Shadowlands - Not just being ripped back to Azeroth with no change whatsoever.

Also, you might want to remind yourself - The entirety of WoW is based on fiction. It's a fictional game. That doesn't mean the game doesn't set constraints on it's story from time to time in order to tell a well thought out vision. At some point, you need a set of rules to follow, or the fiction is more "nonsense" than fiction.

It all serves the story. More specifically, it serves *the way they want to tell* the story, more than the cohesiveness of the plot.

Ysera being reborn is already contrary to showing her death in Legion, which implied a permanent death. That she was able to be brought back at all can be considered tearing down a certain roadblock. That she is bound to Ardenweald does not always mean Blizzard won't bring her back, they'll do whatever is necessary to serve the next point of plot, just as she exists today instead of simply being 'part of the cosmos' and left as a piece of Warcraft history. In a way, Ardenweald was created for the purpose of bringing Ysera back. The fact that they showed characters like Ursoc going here after death to wait for a cycle of rebirth shows that this place was intended to allow dead demigod lore characters to return to the world without associating it to the Emerald Dream the way they brought back Cenarius in Cataclysm. Ardenweald was designed for this purpose. They could absolutely write in that Ysera is bound in Ardenweald, and just as easily it could be seen as a continuation of her story to have the champions to free her from Ardenweald should the possibility present itself, because story reasons.

BFA made a point of Sylvanas raising new Dark Rangers in a shocking act at the Burning of Tel'drassil, only to abandon all the Dark Rangers completely by the end of BFA. It doesn't make sense either, but that's what Blizzard chose to do with the story they wanted to tell. Raising Kal'dorei Dark Rangers served almost zero purpose in the story other than shock value, and even now they serve absolutely no purpose in the story. I don't think Blizzard actually plans too far ahead for what they actually want to do with the story, it's more a matter of writing for the purpose of pulling people's emotions left and right instead of properly setting up a purpose for every character they add to the plot. I'd argue that the fiction as it stands is not all that 'well thought out', and is full of nonsense whether they stick to their own canon or not.

Then there's this

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ra-zone/356510

The devs directly addressed that the giant Goblin cannon in Azshara will be fired. It wasn't used at all. I'm not sure how well planned everything is if even the writers aren't even making use of all the plot seeds that they've planted. We could say 'well they didn't say when, they probably mean far in the future' but then that's not really being well-thought out, that's just keeping possibilities open without having to address a loose end, and misleading fans in the meantime by addressing it directly.

[Hack-Attack]

There are only two ways I see Deathwing returning in the story as an active character. 1: we encounter him in the shadowlands and just interact with him there like other characters. 2: my complete weird theory that the dragon soul didn’t kill Deathwing but split him similar to how onyxia split varian. Then both versions of him would probably be saved for the dragon isles.

Though most likely not happening as much as I would like because I love Deathwing.

[vertigo12]

There are only two ways I see Deathwing returning in the story as an active character. 1: we encounter him in the shadowlands and just interact with him there like other characters. 2: my complete weird theory that the dragon soul didn’t kill Deathwing but split him similar to how onyxia split varian. Then both versions of him would probably be saved for the dragon isles.

Though most likely not happening as much as I would like because I love Deathwing.

But we know that dragons can be reanimated. Take Onyxia for example and Nefarian in Cataclysm.

[huth]

But we know that dragons can be reanimated. Take Onyxia for example and Nefarian in Cataclysm.

Great, an animated giant chin. I'm sure everybody will be down on the ground laughing while it annihilates us all.

[vertigo12]

Great, an animated giant chin. I'm sure everybody will be down on the ground laughing while it annihilates us all.

Or perhaps a chinless Deathwing like one of the Undead face with tongue drooping and hanging.. He once again crash lands on Stormwind/Oggri at to claim his metal chin plate and be part of the raid before suiciding in Wyrmrest Temple.

[kranur]

But if End Time is just one possiblity on how things could have ended that did not come to pass, that means Murozond dies differently, no? Or can certain events just be pulled as real and others discarded from the same timeline?

[vertigo12]

There's no body left with which to resurrect Deathwing, except two distinct chin chunks that hang in Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

The only piece that COULD exist naturally would be the chin. Everything else would have to be magically reconstructed. Which would be especially difficult since we destroyed Onyxia and Nefarian's remains as well, leaving very few relatives left who could serve as replacement parts.

And since Wrathion hasn't died yet and shows no sign of doing so soon, I doubt they plan to use him in such a wasteful way.

Not if like everybody else they end up in Shadowlands which they don't require a physical body and if they were able to find way to reconstruct him with whatever means.

Or allow him to possess someone else's body like his son, Wrathion.

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But if End Time is just one possiblity on how things could have ended that did not come to pass, that means Murozond dies differently, no? Or can certain events just be pulled as real and others discarded from the same timeline?

We never saw the alternate timeline up until Legion allied race and the Alternate Timeline merged with ours. This means that different timelines could have one focal point or convergence similar to what Murozond was mentioning.

[pacotaco]

But if End Time is just one possiblity on how things could have ended that did not come to pass, that means Murozond dies differently, no? Or can certain events just be pulled as real and others discarded from the same timeline?

Well, timetraveling on WoW is weird. It looks like when you time-travel, you create a new bubble universe, and if it goes unchecked it could merge with the main time-line overwritting it.
What we have with Murozond could be 2 different things:
- The event that leads Nozdormu become Murozond is still going to happen (because there still are Infinite Dragons going around), so the future Murozond travels back to our present.
- The Infinite Dragonflight we currently have is a "time-remnant": something from a time-line that it does not exists anymore and were left on our time-line, and they NEED to exists, because they're the cause that led to their time-line to stop existing. Because if they ceased to exists with their time-lime, then you have a paradox. (Yeah, time-traveling can be a mess xD)

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We never saw the alternate timeline up until Legion allied race and the Alternate Timeline merged with ours. This means that different timelines could have one focal point or convergence similar to what Murozond was mentioning.

If you mean the Draenor time-line from which Mag'har come, that time-line didn't merge. It's still out there, I feel like Yrel would be a menace in a future expansion.

[huth]

Not if like everybody else they end up in Shadowlands which they don't require a physical body and if they were able to find way to reconstruct him with whatever means.

But then he's just dead, not undead.

Well, timetraveling on WoW is weird. It looks like when you time-travel, you create a new bubble universe, and if it goes unchecked it could merge with the main time-line overwritting it.

That's actually one of the more sensible ways of doing and avoids some of the problems of having only a single timeline while not requiring you to commit to a full-blown multiverse. Most timelines just re-merge or destabilise so much they become non-viable, so you still have a relatively small number of timelines you actually need to pay attention to, but there's no limit to how many possibilities you can explore.

[vertigo12]

But then he's just dead, not undead.



That's actually one of the more sensible ways of doing and avoids some of the problems of having only a single timeline while not requiring you to commit to a full-blown multiverse. Most timelines just re-merge or destabilise so much they become non-viable, so you still have a relatively small number of timelines you actually need to pay attention to, but there's no limit to how many possibilities you can explore.

Reanimation/Ressurection/Rebirth
- There could be several ways of how one could come back to life. One could be the Deathwing we encountered in Dragon Soul raid could've been an echo of Deathwing without our knowledge. 2 he could be reincarnated in the body of a human guise such as Daval Prestor or somebody else. A ritual could've been performed similar to Nathanon, or Deathwing's soul could've been reincarnated as Wrathion or he could possess Wrathion along the way.

Multiple timelines
- there's a reason why bronze dragonflight are assigned to be cstodians of time and there is no possible means of going back thru time without the aid of a magical item or thru their intercession. The complication of traveling from past, present or future creates a time loop and the only way to break the cycle is change one of the events which was the goal of the Infinite dragonflight but it leads to branching of events such Draenor and Outland which exist in WoW universe and it's reality. We knew that the past of records of the old horde and what happened to Draenor turning to Outland but because we travel back in time we haven't seen the fulfillment of of Draenor's very own destruction and implosion into Outland but we are seeing an event unfolding which shows Light "corrupting" the Orcish Horde.

Perhaps that is the reason why the Burning Legion tried to corrupt them instead because we haven't seen the corruptible nature of Light which blinds everyone staring at it directly, a blind faith or it represents goodness.


From Warcrimes novel:
Eventually, Wrathion revealed himself to be working with Kairozdormu and the Infinite dragonflight to free Garrosh and send him back in time to the Draenor of thirty-five years ago.


N'Zoth the Corruptor whispers: You tread within a vision of what was... and what will be.
N'Zoth the Corruptor whispers: My empire is this world's inevitable destiny.
MOTHER says: Signal interference negated. Connection restored.
Magni Bronzebeard says: Yer back! What happened?
The corpse of the Black Emperor dissolves, revealing it to actually be the n'raqi Ki'merax.
Wrathion says: I learned that it doesn't take much for my friends to believe I betrayed them.
Wrathion says: Champions, that vision was as much for me as it was for you. N'Zoth wants us to believe that my corruption is inevitable.
Wrathion says: Doubt me if you must, but know that I will not rest until his smoldering corpse lies at my feet.

[Unholyground]

The Void sees all outcomes and possibilities but they can never accurately pinpoint which will actually happen so they just try as many things as possible to secure the Void ruled universe they want.

[vertigo12]

The Void sees all outcomes and possibilities but they can never accurately pinpoint which will actually happen so they just try as many things as possible to secure the Void ruled universe they want.

I'm not sure why they can see all possibilities. The only way for them be able to do that is experience multiple timelines and peer into the future but that domain and power is within the hands of Amanthul not unless...
If Void transcends life,order,death then it only means Void is above all and the ultimate cosmic force.. No wonder why Azeroth is always kept in check and in slumber if she is really the Dark Titan.

[cparle87]

Not THAT Deathwing. The awesome Deathwing was the original one that was brilliant, that plotted schemed and infiltrated. That turned people against each other. HE was a great villain. The writers completely destroyed the character by turning him into some mindless crazed idiot in Cata.

You mean the Deathwing who had cultists infiltrating literally every faction. The one who wiped out the entire next generation of enemy dragonkind under the temple, killed Alexstrasza's right hand man, and temporarily fractured the wyrmrest accord? The one who masterminded numberous elemental lords attacking numberous vital points simultaneous to thin out our response where winning in every one place wins? That Deathwing?

[huth]

I'm not sure why they can see all possibilities.

Well, of course you don't. Nobody does except maybe Blizzard. We just know that it can.

But you're overreading as well. The Void can see them, nothing more. The Light can also grant visions of the future. Neither has the ability to manipulate time, at least, not any more than anybody else does.