View Poll Results: Do you want matchmaking in M+

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  • Yes

    28 34.57%
  • No

    53 65.43%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    If they're going to bake in Raider.IO, there's no reason they don't just make it MM as well, similar to how other games have competitive SR for match making.

    That would also help eliminate the "Oh we don't want X class/spec for arbitrary Y reason." as the game would basically tell you "This player meets the skill level requirement for this level of content."

    At that point, if you want your custom tailored "this is peak performance" tailor built group, you can waste your time making that while the others, who just want competent players capable of that level of content, can take the faster route of match making.
    Yeah, except that's not at all how the game is played in high keys and if you've ever stepped in one you'd know that. The difference between a meta group and a non-meta group is the difference between timing and not timing. Nobody will force themselves to sit in a queue when a.) the current system takes about the same amount of time as a queue anyway and b.) it gives you control over which players you bring to the group, greatly increasing the likelihood of the group's success. Now, if you're suggesting that Blizzard simply do away with the ability to form your own group and would instead prefer if it was an MMR-based grind to the highest keys, you'd effectively kill M+ altogether.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I played since vanilla and people were worlds more patient and willing to help back then.

    Hell, go watch the old Serenity Now Funeral crash video. While most people focus on the PvP, notice instead just HOW MANY PEOPLE legitimately took time out of their day to go to Winterspring and stand in line to pay their respects to someone who passed away. There is absolutely NO such community in modern WoW. People are nameless faces in a crowd of gogogo step on the dead and keep moving. If a WoW player died in 2021, there would be no lines for a funeral in the game. No one would care.

    You are in a dream world if you think it was toxic back then.

    People were more patient because best rewards were not tied in timed dungeons with random affixes and ramping difficulty. You could run Stratholme in 10 minutes or 100 and there were no differences in the end apart from the 100 mins group having wasted 90 minutes more of their time.

    The game evolutions made people change.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    What actually happened was that the OP made it sound like some streamer had some inside knowledge (if you don't believe me read it again.) Someone clarifying that the basic point discussed isn't super secret info that we have to trust a streamer for isn't an attack unless your skin is a micron thick. And your position is illogical anyway because the context of the discussion was never Blizzard good versus Blizzard bad. IMO save your rage for a time it makes at least a little sense.
    a person clearly not being well informed does not call for hostility. not everyone follows mmochamp and wowhead datamining. there are plenty of people who use this site and don't look at datamining on purpose. THAT'S why i call felplague a shill. they don't stop to consider logic and nuance. anyways. i'm not going to derail the thread any further since this explanation should suffice. please know i'm not going to respond to something off topic.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    No offense, but how often is a +25 tank really going to queue into the ranked matchmaking unless they WANT to carry lower level players?
    Why design a system that good players will avoid anyways? The assumptions are being fair if you have a realistic grasp on the way the game works.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-04-16 at 06:34 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Why design a system that good players will avoid anyways? The assumptions are being fair if you have a realistic grasp on the way the game works. If no one is agreeing with you maybe look with in rather then trying to blame everyone else for being wrong.
    It won’t work, it just simply can’t. Tanks and healers are so few they know they will often be invited in runs THEY choose to apply regardless their skill or rio, why should they use an automatic MM that will mean failing 9 on 10 instead? Waiting times will just skyrocket to an insane degree and people will stop using the tool within one month because they will see it’s pointless. I completely stopped lfging bgs as dps in BfA due to 20-30 mins queue minimum, imagine the waiting times for a random mmaked +10.

  6. #66
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    prot warr is the sec best tank after VDH in M+ and will be double meta in 9.1 in WR 1-50 raidng (unless nerfed ofc), you see this guy ^ is an example why Rio exist
    Ah, yes, Prot Warrior is second best. It's why they are dead last in popularity, pushed keys, and overall preformance in M+.

    /s

    I didn't pay too much attention to raids, but then raiding is entirely different - Tank damage doesn't matter anywhere near as much, fights are mostly single target with some amount of adds (Generally no more then 10 adds, compared to the large pulls you need to do in M+), you don't even have to kite, ect, ect. While Tanking is a critical role in M+, it's simply a required role in raids - As long as you know where to position the boss and when to do the mandatory taunt swap, you don't even have to proactively use CDs except in maybe 2-3 boss fights, unlike in M+ where if your CD falls off, you better be more then 10 yds away or you die. A good enough tank can even make the second tank invalid on easier fights - No need to taunt swap if the taunt-swap mechanic isn't even threatening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Ah, yes, Prot Warrior is second best. It's why they are dead last in popularity, pushed keys, and overall preformance in M+.

    /s

    I didn't pay too much attention to raids, but then raiding is entirely different - Tank damage doesn't matter anywhere near as much, fights are mostly single target with some amount of adds (Generally no more then 10 adds, compared to the large pulls you need to do in M+), you don't even have to kite, ect, ect. While Tanking is a critical role in M+, it's simply a required role in raids - As long as you know where to position the boss and when to do the mandatory taunt swap, you don't even have to proactively use CDs except in maybe 2-3 boss fights, unlike in M+ where if your CD falls off, you better be more then 10 yds away or you die. A good enough tank can even make the second tank invalid on easier fights - No need to taunt swap if the taunt-swap mechanic isn't even threatening.
    you just profed that youre a giga casual, me and another poster explained that warrior stuff some post ago go and read it up, i wont repat myself toa no name who neversaw a 20+ from the inside not to speak a 24+
    I.O BFA Season 3


  8. #68
    Look back in vanilla and bc, you had 10,11,14 million players and the overwhelming majority of those wanted a game with a community. They met people in wow. Got married in wow. When they died in real life they had a funeral in wow and people came out to line up for hours. THAT is world of warcraft. THAT is what people want.

    Then they nuked the community and turned it into gogogo rio. And subs collapsed to like 2-3 million. People dont WANT the shit that is current wow.

    And then to shit down the throat of wow, blizz does wow classic and strip out the community aspect of it which was the ENTIRE POINT. Wow classic is a billion light years from the vanilla experience. I have no interest in it. Wow classic and retail are the same.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2021-04-16 at 06:55 PM.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    And then to shit down the throat of wow, blizz does wow classic and strip out the community aspect of it which was the ENTIRE POINT. Wow classic is a billion light years from the vanilla experience. I have no interest in it. Wow classic and retail are the same.
    It is weird that you talk about the community being what made WoW great then expect Blizzard to fix that for classic. You can't change players no matter how hard you try and gamers and how they approach games has changed over the past 15 years. This is why things have nothing to do with rio or anything else that will take its place. People just don't want to waste their time.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is weird that you talk about the community being what made WoW great then expect Blizzard to fix that for classic. You can't change players no matter how hard you try and gamers and how they approach games has changed over the past 15 years. This is why things have nothing to do with rio or anything else that will take its place. People just don't want to waste their time.
    This has to be a troll. I have listed on this forum a billion times the fixes needed to rebuild the in game social community. Im done doing that. Stop saying it cant be done.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    This has to be a troll. I have listed on this forum a billion times the fixes needed to rebuild the in game social community. Im done doing that. Stop saying it cant be done.
    Classic was barely any changes and you didn't like it. You can't force people to forget 15 years of stuff and go back to a time when things were just different.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    You are in a dream world if you think it was toxic back then.
    You actually think your cute anecdote invalidates the thousands of instances in which people were completely toxic don't you? If you are saying people weren't toxic in 2004:
    A) You were not doing any kind of endgame content
    B) Your memory is terrible
    C) You are a liar
    D) You know nothing of basic human behavior

    Pick whatever combination you want. IMO it's likely to be all four.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    a person clearly not being well informed does not call for hostility
    I thought FelPlague was snarky and hostility wasn't involved until you came in. Just my two cents.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    You actually think your cute anecdote invalidates the thousands of instances in which people were completely toxic don't you? If you are saying people weren't toxic in 2004:
    A) You were not doing any kind of endgame content
    B) Your memory is terrible
    C) You are a liar
    D) You know nothing of basic human behavior

    Pick whatever combination you want. IMO it's likely to be all four.
    Daily reminder that this exists:



    Oh, and who could forget this little tidbit from Jeff Kaplan in his EQ days:

    "Whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle A.)Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power."

  14. #74
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    If Blizzard did do some sort of matchmaking with an in-game raider.io then that would do away with the keys that a person gets every week when doing their first M+ because there would be no way to ensure SOMEONE in the group actually has a key to even start it up. That or EVERYONE would be required to have the key for the selected M+ on the setting they want and probably would make each person use their key and upgrade/downgrade it once the run is over.
    True but it wouldn't be the worst to be rid of the keys, just pick how many affixes you want and queue up or get a group together like you do now. Fx. make the pedestals you insert keys into at the start into an interface much like torghasts where you pick your difficulty level and whatever affixes of the week that go with it. Let it pick for you in line with the bracket you queued in if you entered that way.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  15. #75
    Scarab Lord Wries's Avatar
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    No for several reasons. A bit of current m+, class and dungeon design is that planning is a part of the game and leads to better success.

    Blizzard can probably auto-match a decent setup for you to a degree, but that will also limit your pre-planning with intended routes and pulls etc. You could argue that a person using MM will accept that and play more generic ones, but the frustration of not reaching the same kind of scores as the organizing groups will be palpable. In the end the good players will probably skip using the system and form their own groups, leaving the system largely unnused. And then we're back here.

    I also think solving clinically shy peoples' problems in an MMO is a futile effort as you seem to eventually drive away more people than the ones you end up pleasing.

  16. #76
    I think you could do it... just you would have to be brutally clear that MM could flux up and down and now allow more then maybe 1 or 2 levels skipped max.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    You actually think your cute anecdote invalidates the thousands of instances in which people were completely toxic don't you? If you are saying people weren't toxic in 2004:
    A) You were not doing any kind of endgame content
    B) Your memory is terrible
    C) You are a liar
    D) You know nothing of basic human behavior

    Pick whatever combination you want. IMO it's likely to be all four.
    I will admit there are some people that have a very warped and corrupted definition of "toxic" that is almost 100% reversed from the actual meaning. It sounds like you could be one of those. I ran the top PvP guild on my server in vanilla. Made high warlord. I spent my time recruiting people and directing PvP battles. Lemme tell you, the toxic behavior back then was basically zilch compared to now.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    ...
    why use preach when the stuff is literally in the code itself, and raider.io literally made a post confirming they are working with blizzard on making an ingame version of radier.io

    why go "this youtuber and his contacts and!"
    when you can literally just... get the confirmed info we have?

    https://raider.io/news/212-inside-sc...scoring-system

    Could you not attempt to argue with people over anything they post. "HOLY SHIT, THIS OP POSTED LETTERS IN THEIR THREAD."


    Just because you attempt to be a literal Internet tryhard and attack the OP because you don't like the string of letters he posted that spell out P-R-E-A-C-H doesn't mean it's a valid excuse to do so. It continues to show how enslaved you are to your own (triggered) emotions and how you pay no mind to discussing thread topics.


    Go derail another anti-Blizzard thread instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Daily reminder that this exists:



    Oh, and who could forget this little tidbit from Jeff Kaplan in his EQ days:

    "Whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle A.)Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power."

    This is the best post in here. Didn't know Mr. Kaplan sued to be so... toxic.


    And who is that Sebudai guy?
    Last edited by KaneLivesInDeath; 2021-04-17 at 11:44 AM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Look back in vanilla and bc, you had 10,11,14 million players and the overwhelming majority of those wanted a game with a community. They met people in wow. Got married in wow. When they died in real life they had a funeral in wow and people came out to line up for hours. THAT is world of warcraft. THAT is what people want.

    Then they nuked the community and turned it into gogogo rio. And subs collapsed to like 2-3 million. People dont WANT the shit that is current wow.

    And then to shit down the throat of wow, blizz does wow classic and strip out the community aspect of it which was the ENTIRE POINT. Wow classic is a billion light years from the vanilla experience. I have no interest in it. Wow classic and retail are the same.
    Game turned in the gogorio because PvE people that couldn’t or didn’t want to raid for whatever reason were left miles behind gear wise.

    Imagine SL without M+. You would be stuck at ilvl 200 since months with nothing to do to increase your “power” until next major patch, like the dudes that are not opting in even for M+ nowadays.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Daily reminder that this exists:



    Oh, and who could forget this little tidbit from Jeff Kaplan in his EQ days:

    "Whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle A.)Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power."
    pure golden . thank you - you made my evening

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