NASA selects SpaceX as its sole provider for a lunar lander

[cubby]

[B]I just want you to give me like a specific example that I can then go look into further.

We gave you two, in this thread, after you asked. Musk worked on the rockets directly, both during design and launch. Just two of hundreds of things he's done in building a space venture company. I guess you'll take a break now while "you look into [that] further", eh? I pointed you towards wiki because their site has a summary of his and SpaceX's achievements, with links to follow up. Maybe that's where you can start, since you know so little.

Rich boy from rich family builds becomes richer thanks to head start in life "omg he's so amazing" yeah no his "corporate" bs is just that bs.

You haven't really said much... like his engineer skills you said go read wiki... Do you not have one on the top of your head that isn't just "he had money and ideas and could afford them"

You realize these posts of yours are just proving my point. Your ridiculous bias and now gaslighting are beyond juvenile. You somehow think building a company is just throwing money at something. Innovating space launch abilities is just lucky according to you, eh?

We've told you what he's done. If you don't care to acknowledge it, that's your "zealotry", not ours. I've also pointed out numerous times where Musk is a terrible person, and you ignore those as well. The only person who needs to evaluate their behavior is you.

I guess the question you should ask yourself is why are you so intellectually dishonest?

[Themius]

We gave you two, in this thread, after you asked. Musk worked on the rockets directly, both during design and launch. Just two of hundreds of things he's done in building a space venture company. I guess you'll take a break now while "you look into [that] further", eh? I pointed you towards wiki because their site has a summary of his and SpaceX's achievements, with links to follow up. Maybe that's where you can start, since you know so little.




You realize these posts of yours are just proving my point. Your ridiculous bias and now gaslighting are beyond juvenile. You somehow think building a company is just throwing money at something. Innovating space launch abilities is just lucky according to you, eh?

We've told you what he's done. If you don't care to acknowledge it, that's your "zealotry", not ours. I've also pointed out numerous times where Musk is a terrible person, and you ignore those as well. The only person who needs to evaluate their behavior is you.

I guess the question you should ask yourself is why are you so intellectually dishonest?

Okay um that's not anything specific.

the guy who owns the rocket company worked directly with the rockets during design and launch. Okay? That's not impressive unless I know specifically what he was doing. If I have an idea for a sword design and someone makes it... I'm not the amazing blacksmith. Like ceos working directly on flagship shit is normal... not special for Elon...

Building a company often is just throwing money at it... innovating space with government funded research and decades tests is what has allowed Elon this chance you are aware right?

You've still not said much... You're the one being dishonest. You come at me with fucking "he helped design and work on the launch" doing what?? That's like typically CEO behaviour which includes CEOs who aren't part of the industry.

That's not fucking specific. At this point what you're telling mess that Elon Musk is a process manager. He is involved with design okay... and people who have worked there say that they come up with a lot of designs which they bring to musk and he goes through them. Alright but what is he doing... specifically that is genius levels engineering here? This is the part I am missing, where is he applying this engineering?

[Flarelaine]

What did "he" do?

He went and threw money at commercial space travel until it became financially viable. That could have taken decades at the usual pace of government and institutional investors.

[s_bushido]

He went and threw money at commercial space travel until it became financially viable. That could have taken decades at the usual pace of government and institutional investors.

Did he, though? He may have helped revive some popular interest in the idea, but are we any closer to "commercial space travel" than we have been for the past few decades that we've been sending shit into space for various commercial reasons?

[Flarelaine]

Did he, though? He may have helped revive some popular interest in the idea, but are we any closer to "commercial space travel" than we have been for the past few decades that we've been sending shit into space for various commercial reasons?

Well, we are certainly still far from casual space travel, but the cost of sending stuff into space as expressed in $/kg has gone down. Faster than it had been going down before he jumped in. That could be correlation, that could be simply hype, but I think he had some part in it. His contribution is hard to quantify, obviously.

[PACOX]

He went and threw money at commercial space travel until it became financially viable. That could have taken decades at the usual pace of government and institutional investors.

He filled a bubble because the US funds space was broke. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they placed a bandaid on it. He hasn't done anything NASA hasn't done or proposed, NASA wasn't allowed to do it

NASA duped Congress into giving them money for projects under the guise of the commercial system -part of the reason many scientists and the international community loathe the state of US spaceflight. Musk was there to catch the success. Does NASA know Musk is getting over? Yes. Do they care? No because the system is busted. NASA used SpaceX as its puppet agency despite of anything Musk was doing. Hell, Musk is often contracted by his actual engineers and directors when people start being realistic. Starship is their first real independent venture. Its awesome, but if Musk keeps overselling it it will lose contracts when it doesn't meet his extravagant expectations.

We paid Russia about $80-90 million to send people up.
We pay SpaceX $55-60 million. And then we turn around and give SpaceX more money. Its not like SpaceX is really saving us money if thats ones argument for celebrating them. I personally don't care about pushing numbers when it comes to spaceflight, just efficent results.

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Did he, though? He may have helped revive some popular interest in the idea, but are we any closer to "commercial space travel" than we have been for the past few decades that we've been sending shit into space for various commercial reasons?

We're in a place where research labs are using the commercial space agencies to put up small sats and science experiments. You don't hear much about them though because SpaceX dominates the press's attention.

[cubby]

He filled a bubble because the US funds space was broke. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they placed a bandaid on it. He hasn't done anything NASA hasn't done or proposed, NASA wasn't allowed to do it

I would say this is a solid summary of Musk/SpaceX's achievements. I crossed out one part of your second sentence only for clarity on my position, not yours.

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Well, we are certainly still far from casual space travel, but the cost of sending stuff into space as expressed in $/kg has gone down. Faster than it had been going down before he jumped in. That could be correlation, that could be simply hype, but I think he had some part in it. His contribution is hard to quantify, obviously.

SpaceX dropped the cost of $/kg by an order of magnitude. I would say that is both significant and very easy to quantify. Plus, reusable rockets - that I would also classify as significant and quantifiable.

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He went and threw money at commercial space travel until it became financially viable. That could have taken decades at the usual pace of government and institutional investors.

NASA was stuck and not moving forward. Their only viable rocket still hasn't launched, is 6+ years behind, and the guy who said it should be scrapped if the SLS doesn't make it's schedule is now in charge of it. NASA has some serious institutional problems, some of which are based on funding, but a lot of which are based on out dated perspectives.

SpaceX came along at the right time to both innovate an industry and spur others along.

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Boeing's next Starliner test flight moves to first half of 2022.

Engineers have narrowed down the likely causes of the oxidizer isolation valve problem that forced the team to scrap the August 2021 launch, but it remains a "complex issue" that requires a "methodical approach" to solve, according to Commercial Crew Program manager Steve Stich.

Boeing has several possible solutions in the works, ranging from small tweaks to the existing crew capsule through to modifying a capsule still in production. The exact launch timing hinges on both the readiness of the hardware itself as well as the rocket manifest and access to the International Space Station.

Boeing still doesn't know the exact cause of the problem yet, pushing the still first launch to sometime in 2022. The over/under on this thing ever carrying people anywhere is slowly climbing.

This is why privatization of space commercialization and innovation is really the only practical solution, at least for the U.S. If NASA were still trying to do things, well, we'd still be begging the Soviets Russians for lifts to our station.

[Easo]

I could also add that Tesla has certainly been one of the biggest forces for pushing electric cars to market, so maybe, just maybe, Musk is a bit more than one tricky pony who got lucky once.

[cubby]

I could also add that Tesla has certainly been one of the biggest forces for pushing electric cars to market, so maybe, just maybe, Musk is a bit more than one tricky pony who got lucky once.

Paypal did pretty well, too.

Musk is a certified genius and an unqualified success, in multiple genres, over multiple decades. Just as a side note, he was also admitted to Stanford's PhD material's science program as well, something he left to pursue money and success. He's also an asshole with some very questionable social issues.

[JohnBrown1917]

Then don't be impressed. Frankly, I don't give a shit about your opinion on this topic any more. You're clearly biased, with no ability for objectivity. Intellectually dishonest people rarely keep my interest, and since you've proven yours, we can be done with this conversation.

Ranting about other people's biases when you think Musk is actually an engineering genius(the engineers he hires do all the work) and are probably the biggest fanboy on forum by a mile.

Building a company is easy if you're born rich thanks to your parents profiting of apartheid-era South Africa policies.

[cubby]

Ranting about other people's biases when you think Musk is actually an engineering genius(the engineers he hires do all the work) and are probably the biggest fanboy on forum by a mile.

Building a company is easy if you're born rich thanks to your parents profiting of apartheid-era South Africa policies.

He is an engineering genius. People like you and others who can't evaluate things objectively just brush aside his ridiculous list of achievements as if anyone with money could have done them.

If you ever bothered to really look at your posts you'd realize how zealot-ish you Musk baggers are (not Haters, just to be clear). Any objective evaluation of Musk's achievements would conclude his scientific and organizational brilliance. He certainly has a laundry list of issues, both personally and professionally, he's done and said, but you and your ilk can't separate hating the man personally with recognizing his achievements - him being an asshole and also brilliant aren't mutually exclusive. You and people like Themius are emotionally tied to hating him personally, and that makes all your evaluations and comments forever biased, and therefore tainted. The irony is both deep and rich.

I'm consistently on record objectively (for the most part) pointing out Musk's goods and bads; you people just shit on him, then call me biased. It's hysterical, and the rest of enjoy a good laugh every time you post your bullshit.

[Nerraw]

First solid indications of a Starship launch date say March 2022: https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/...13057161736193

[PACOX]

First solid indications of a Starship launch date say March 2022: https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/...13057161736193

Kind of want to gloat.

Its the perception of SpaceX that gets annoying, not necessarily SpaceX itself. According to Musk a reentry test should have already happened. His grandstanding brought the wrong criticism towards SLS when it got pushed back to a window it was already expected to get pushed back to. Musk was putting on a show while his managers were like, "nah, none of what you're saying is actually realistic". Just goes to show Musk blows a lot of hot air and SpaceX gets their projects pushed back just like any other company. Especially when we're dealing with a rather sophisticated craft. The only thing that comes to what Starship is hoping to be is the shuttle - many tried to make one but only NASA was able to pull it off (not perfect to a decent degree of success).

Would like to add, the reentry test is not required for the lunar mission. You don't need a heat shield to land on the moon and they've successully landed one Starship protype already. They could just perfect that and be done if they really wanted. The reentry test is for future plans to launch and returns humans on Earth with Starship.

[Zuben]

Kind of want to gloat.

Its the perception of SpaceX that gets annoying, not necessarily SpaceX itself. According to Musk a reentry test should have already happened. His grandstanding brought the wrong criticism towards SLS when it got pushed back to a window it was already expected to get pushed back to. Musk was putting on a show while his managers were like, "nah, none of what you're saying is actually realistic". Just goes to show Musk blows a lot of hot air and SpaceX gets their projects pushed back just like any other company. Especially when we're dealing with a rather sophisticated craft. The only thing that comes to what Starship is hoping to be is the shuttle - many tried to make one but only NASA was able to pull it off (not perfect to a decent degree of success).

Would like to add, the reentry test is not required for the lunar mission. You don't need a heat shield to land on the moon and they've successully landed one Starship protype already. They could just perfect that and be done if they really wanted. The reentry test is for future plans to launch and returns humans on Earth with Starship.

Delays are par for the course when it comes to rocket engineering, especially new designs. There's a reason why some companies/agencies still use tried and true spacecraft models designed decades ago.

Having said that, SLS is so delayed and riddled with issues it deserves its ridicule. Starship hoppers began testing like, what, two years ago? If they have a functioning 1.0 model next year that's a very fast pace for that they're aiming for. I don't know how heavily NASA engineering factors into SpaceX's success, but the company itself has to be doing something exceptionally well when they're this fast compared to SLS and commercial competitors like Blue Origin.

I do expect Starship to blow up a few times before they nail a steady success rate. It was like that for payload-ready Falcon 9.

[PACOX]

Delays are par for the course when it comes to rocket engineering, especially new designs. There's a reason why some companies/agencies still use tried and true spacecraft models designed decades ago.

Having said that, SLS is so delayed and riddled with issues it deserves its ridicule. Starship hoppers began testing like, what, two years ago? If they have a functioning 1.0 model next year that's a very fast pace for that they're aiming for. I don't know how heavily NASA engineering factors into SpaceX's success, but the company itself has to be doing something exceptionally well when they're this fast compared to SLS and commercial competitors like Blue Origin.

I do expect Starship to blow up a few times before they nail a steady success rate. It was like that for payload-ready Falcon 9.

We looked up earlier in the thread. Starship is just about as old as SLS if you trace both to their initial planning phases (Starship had a different name). SLS has less of an excuse since SLS is shuttle derived in its propulsion, so 90% of the craft. SpaceX basically finished an entire rocket family to get to where it's at with Starship while NASA spent its time in logistics hell. Actually testing of SLS has been smooth, I'll give them that. I believe its maidan flight is stacked with some odds and ends missing.

Last I really looked into Blue Origin they were doing well enough until they got hit with the same problems all rocket companies were hit. New Shepard is actually good for what they designed it to do. Bezos is full of crap if he thinks New Shepard means NASA should wait for him to build a lunar lander. Blue Origin's main issue is that finishing their engines is an uphill battle right now.

Boeing is playing both sides of the fence. They are also waiting for Blue Origin engines (as part of ULA for their Vulcan rocket).

I feel like SpaceX has been wasting time by not doing Starship landing tests while waiting to get a prototype ready for a reentry test but confidence in a lunar landing version of Starship ready by the an SLS is ready to get to the Moon. They have nothing but time but the real holdup is still isn't even the rockets...
Its the spacesuits.

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm consistently on record objectively (for the most part) pointing out Musk's goods and bads; you people just shit on him, then call me biased. It's hysterical, and the rest of enjoy a good laugh every time you post your bullshit.

Most people here are not musk fanboys, kiddo.


You just blindly believe whatever you tells you, like Trump fanboys do with Trump. He has funded a lot, he has however not invented shit. All his 'ideas' where already common ideas when he was still shitting his diapers while enjoying the privileges of South-African apartheid.


But that you can't even see your own bias is beyond hilarity. If he is a genius at anything, its marketing.




Did you also go this far in defending him when he called a rescue diver a pedophile for not agreeing to one of his stupid ideas?

[Zuben]

We looked up earlier in the thread. Starship is just about as old as SLS if you trace both to their initial planning phases (Starship had a different name). SLS has less of an excuse since SLS is shuttle derived in its propulsion, so 90% of the craft. SpaceX basically finished an entire rocket family to get to where it's at with Starship while NASA spent its time in logistics hell. Actually testing of SLS has been smooth, I'll give them that. I believe its maidan flight is stacked with some odds and ends missing.

Last I really looked into Blue Origin they were doing well enough until they got hit with the same problems all rocket companies were hit. New Shepard is actually good for what they designed it to do. Bezos is full of crap if he thinks New Shepard means NASA should wait for him to build a lunar lander. Blue Origin's main issue is that finishing their engines is an uphill battle right now.

Boeing is playing both sides of the fence. They are also waiting for Blue Origin engines (as part of ULA for their Vulcan rocket).

I feel like SpaceX has been wasting time by not doing Starship landing tests while waiting to get a prototype ready for a reentry test but confidence in a lunar landing version of Starship ready by the an SLS is ready to get to the Moon. They have nothing but time but the real holdup is still isn't even the rockets...
Its the spacesuits.

Isn't their lunar development currently sitting because of Bezos's lawsuit?

But yes, the spacesuits. It's unfortunate they'll be likely delaying Artemis as a whole, but I'm still glad next generation suits are on the development que. Do you know if they're part of the commercial program, or will NASA develop them inhouse only? I liked how Musk insisted on aesthetics being a core consideration in SpaceX's pressure suit, which led to it turning up pretty cool-looking. I'd love to see their take on actual spacesuits. Tbh I'd want to see whole bunch of takes on spacesuits.

[Biglog]

Bezos and Blue Origin are way, way, behind SpaceX in development. They aren't comparable at all right now. Musk was harsh in saying it, but it's true that Blue Origin is more like an (expensive) backyard hobby rocket compared to SpaceX. If you haven't followed them too closely you might think they are at about the same level, but they aren't remotely close if you look into what they've both accomplished and where they are at as far as company size, successful launches, technical accomplishments, etc. Musk is odd, he has some strange ideas, but when it comes to space he's been the Thomas Edison of our time.

They also aren't even close in objectives. SpaceX has a stated mission purpose of making humans a multiplanetary species to continue our survival, and things like reusable rockets that are evolutionary that they developed have taken a huge step towards that goal. So is SLS, planning trips to Mars, etc. In fact Musk has said all his other projects like Tesla and Starlink are really to fund that important higher objective.

Blue Origin's goal on the other hand is taking wealthy people up in a rocket just high enough to qualify as being "in space", purely for entertainment (and IG pictures) without any higher purpose or scientific goal whatsoever. In fact, these Blue Origin space tourism launches just hasten the need a bit to be multiplanetary with the emissions from each launch. Another Blue Origins launch with space tourists is scheduled for next week. Bezos admitted in an interview he did Blue Origin because he didn't know what else to do with his large amount of money and thought it would be fun. So Blue Origin and SpaceX are roughly in the same industry, but could not be more different companies. So of course Blue Origins was not considered for very long for the lunar lander, and it's kind of crazy that they thought they should be in the conversation when they are no where near SpaceX yet.

[Themius]

I could also add that Tesla has certainly been one of the biggest forces for pushing electric cars to market, so maybe, just maybe, Musk is a bit more than one tricky pony who got lucky once.

Tesla was already in existence... he came in and pumped money in, and frankly his company is rather shit when you look at how they're making money which is mostly by selling carbon credits... which does fuck all for the environment. We had electric cars before quite popular ones that were then killed off because of car lobbies..

[cubby]

Delays are par for the course when it comes to rocket engineering, especially new designs. There's a reason why some companies/agencies still use tried and true spacecraft models designed decades ago.

Having said that, SLS is so delayed and riddled with issues it deserves its ridicule. Starship hoppers began testing like, what, two years ago? If they have a functioning 1.0 model next year that's a very fast pace for that they're aiming for. I don't know how heavily NASA engineering factors into SpaceX's success, but the company itself has to be doing something exceptionally well when they're this fast compared to SLS and commercial competitors like Blue Origin.

I do expect Starship to blow up a few times before they nail a steady success rate. It was like that for payload-ready Falcon 9.

It seems like SLS keeps taking one step forward and two back, even after relying on so much borrow launch tech from the shuttle era (which is smart, I'm not criticizing that). It's just one delay after another, and they passed their 10+ year mark without a single viable launch. I'm actually a big fan of having more than one solution to both returning the U.S. to human launch capability and getting back to the moon (thank you China), so I hope the SLS figures out their shit and gets it up there.

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We looked up earlier in the thread. Starship is just about as old as SLS if you trace both to their initial planning phases (Starship had a different name). SLS has less of an excuse since SLS is shuttle derived in its propulsion, so 90% of the craft. SpaceX basically finished an entire rocket family to get to where it's at with Starship while NASA spent its time in logistics hell. Actually testing of SLS has been smooth, I'll give them that. I believe its maidan flight is stacked with some odds and ends missing.

Last I really looked into Blue Origin they were doing well enough until they got hit with the same problems all rocket companies were hit. New Shepard is actually good for what they designed it to do. Bezos is full of crap if he thinks New Shepard means NASA should wait for him to build a lunar lander. Blue Origin's main issue is that finishing their engines is an uphill battle right now.

Boeing is playing both sides of the fence. They are also waiting for Blue Origin engines (as part of ULA for their Vulcan rocket).

I feel like SpaceX has been wasting time by not doing Starship landing tests while waiting to get a prototype ready for a reentry test but confidence in a lunar landing version of Starship ready by the an SLS is ready to get to the Moon. They have nothing but time but the real holdup is still isn't even the rockets...
Its the spacesuits.

I thought Starship didn't even get going on the drawing board until around 2016 whereas SLS started in drafts around 2011...I could be wrong on that timeline though. I find it unsurprising that NASA continues to wallow in logistics (and imo administrative) hell. It's a criticism but not a harsh one, given what they've accomplished over the past 70 years. I do hope SLS works out - multiple launch platforms to the moon help everyone (I know I oversimplified that, lol, don't beat me up too badly).

I'm with @Biglog regarding Blue Origin and Virgin - backyard hobbyists that will make some coin in tourism and peeter out when it comes to actual astronaut launches/development. To me they are the two silly billionaires racing each other to ridiculous space milestones, while SpaceX is doing NASA-quality work.

It is interesting SpaceX isn't doing more landing tests - they have that one success but I would think a few more after multiple explosions would be prudent.