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  1. #381
    IMHO, I find Musk to be a rather fascinating analogue to Heinlein's Delos D. Harriman aka The Man Who Sold the Moon. A more real world yet distant example would be Columbus, where one's obsession leads to a drastic change of the World, irrespective of ones virtues and talents, beside the ability to successfully "sell" his project.
    "Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outwards, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang on Essays on Mind and Matter

  2. #382
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You know you can always just accept that there are entirely legitimate reasons to despise Musk and people of his ilk without trying to pathologize criticism of him, right?

    "Musk" is not going to get anyone to Mars. The people working at SpaceX will do so because bankrolling someone does not make it yours.
    Yeah, but thanks to his company we can get the choice to be in Indentured servitude on his corporate empire on mars!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    His influence as we all know is direct, overbearing, he sleeps at work, rages, etc
    You can describe young bill gates with exactly these words as well.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Kennedy didn't put people on the moon, NASA did.
    I am sure orders from the top meant nothing
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  5. #385
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Again; what achievements?

    Throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks isn't an achievement; the achievement belongs to the people at Tesla and SpaceX who are actually doing work, should their success materialize. Moreover, I'm highly critical of any worldview that hinges upon Great Man-esque history, which this is absolutely a case of when it comes to Musk.
    Just read back the last few pages, you can see/read them. I'm not going to have the same pointless conversation with close minded zealots. You and your ilk come out here every so often to bag on stuff you clearly don't understand, and don't want to learn about. I mean, asking what contributions Musk made to SpaceX is just such a disingenuous, laughably dishonest statement to make, everything else someone says after that is just ignorable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Cubby probably supports irl squid games. Just look at the engineering marvel of the island!
    You three should get a room. It's fucking laughable how willfully ignorant you three are on how companies work, and what part the founder of a company takes it shaping it's direction and achievements. Also, remember, you ignorantly contradicted yourself awhile back, and still haven't figured it out. Give us a shout when you're caught up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    I can't help but think of Ford.
    His influence on the auto industry is similar to what we're talking about.
    He didn't invent the combustion engine but his genius with streamlining production lines etc. had the impact we all know about.

    You can't deny X.com having a hand in what would become Paypal, nor deny his influence in Zip2 and it's eventual sale to Compaq;
    receiving something like 100 mil and 20 mil respectively for his shares.
    Ignoring Falcon 1 and its achievements too somehow and his influence in that, you've forgotten about Starlink and what it's doing.
    It's weird to claim he has none.
    He is where is he and we aren't afterall.

    A president is different as he wasn't the ceo and chief engineer of Nasa.
    Musk is for this "nasa".
    His influence as we all know is direct, overbearing, he sleeps at work, rages, etc I'm sure we've all heard stories.
    My point is Kennedy didn't lol.

    Musk does dumb shit.
    Musk says dumb shit.
    Musk does smart shit.
    Musk says smart shit.
    They aren't mutually exclusive lol
    Well put, thank you.

    I think at this point the kids under the bridge can just be ignored. They are making the same willfully ignorant statements over and over again. Baggers are always just gonna be baggers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Back onto thread topic:

    I'm pretty psyched about SpaceX just tossing rocket after rocket into the sky this year. Little sad that Starship is delayed, but not surprised. Seems like someone awhile back pointed out (and corrected me) that delays are happening across the board with developments in space launces.

  6. #386
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I am sure orders from the top meant nothing
    I'm sure they matter far more than the actual brains needed to pull it off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  7. #387
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    You can describe young bill gates with exactly these words as well.
    Eh, that's kind of an insult to Gates. The only real comparison is that they both got insanely rich. Musk has the same aptitude of any engineering graduate.

    Musk isn't stupid but his mastery of physics and the other disciplines of his various ventures are at an undergrad level. He puts his level of expertise on display when he runs his mouth and tries to appear to have a deeper mastery/more hands on involvement than he actually does. He is not dumb but he sure isn't brilliant.
    He would annoy the hell out of other engineers if he worked in an actual firm because of his unapologetic arrogance even when people are trying to educate him when he is why.

    Wouldn't be surprised if he is pressured to resign from his various SpaceX positions in the future as the company has a steady stream of revenue and stable fleet of rockets.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-10-17 at 10:56 AM.

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  8. #388
    The Lightbringer Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Can we plz have a Space Megathread, pretty pleeease??

    another world's first, first movie shot in space, actors have now returned safe n sound

    Ugh...looks like the vids comment section attracted a horde of flat-earthers... brrrr...
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-10-17 at 02:31 PM.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Can we plz have a Space Megathread, pretty pleeease??

    another world's first, first movie shot in space, actors have now returned safe n sound
    Tom Cruise has gotta be so mad. I’m sure his will make more money, but it will no longer be the first. Sorry Elon and Tom, Russia beat you to it.

  10. #390
    The Lightbringer Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Tom Cruise has gotta be so mad. I’m sure his will make more money, but it will no longer be the first. Sorry Elon and Tom, Russia beat you to it.
    I wonder about his movies, so much action packed...why even bother going to space? They prob won't let him make any crazy stunts, he could potentially sink the whole station lol..instead such scenes will be done from earth, so why even go up there? just to say you did? I dunno..seems like a big hassle..

    Russia says musk has been a nice dude, but are suspicious of him..

    ‘Every day SpaceX people walk past photo of my grandad’: Descendant of Sergey Korolev talks to RT about meeting Elon Musk (VIDEO)

    RT.com
    15 Sep, 2021 12:37

    SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk is very humble in person and has great admiration for legendary Soviet rocket engineer Sergey Korolev, his grandson told RT after chatting with the billionaire in his company’s US headquarters.

    Andrey Korolev, a prominent Moscow surgeon, revealed that he came up with the idea to talk to Musk after watching the first manned test flight of the Crew Dragon spaceship in May 2020. He was so fascinated by the project that he decided to try to congratulate the SpaceX boss himself.

    After failing to pull some strings in Silicon Valley, Andrey contacted NASA, which did not seem to have much faith that Musk would be on board. Nevertheless, to Andrey’s surprise, after some time NASA told him the entrepreneur was up for a phone call.

    Korolev invited Musk to Moscow. The SpaceX chief, in turn, invited Andrey to the company’s HQ in Hawthorne, California.

    The opportunity came this year as Andrey was attending a medical conference in the US. He took his son Pavel, who works in the UK, with him, landed in California, rented a Tesla and drove to meet Musk, who flew to Hawthorne by plane.

    The trip was “unreal,” Andrey said. “We truly received a royal welcome.” The father and son toured the facilities, but were not allowed to take pictures. They observed how engineers worked in large open-space hangars and parts of the Crew Dragon were assembled in what Korolev said resembled a glass cube the size of several volleyball courts.

    Despite his wealth and fame, Musk was as humble in person as he was over the phone. “No arrogance, no pompousness. In terms of having a conversation, he’s a completely normal, down-to-earth guy,” Andrey said. “We sat down, drank water, everything was wonderful.”

    The entrepreneur reminded Andrey of his own grandfather, the famous Soviet rocket engineer and spaceship designer Sergey Korolev, with his passion for technology and workaholic persona. Korolev was involved in building rockets that launched Sputnik 1, the world’s first satellite, and later Yuri Gagarin, the first man in space.

    “Musk knows history very well, the history of the Russian space program in particular,” Andrey said. “He repeatedly brought up Korolev in interviews and books, acknowledging that the successes of his own company wouldn’t have been so impressive if it wasn’t standing on the shoulders of giants. He believed Korolev was one of such giants.”

    “The development of space technology is impossible without international partnership,” he said.

    “Just like in surgery, where you cannot grow limited to just one clinic or one country. It's impossible.”

    Andrey pointed out that one of the conference halls in the SpaceX HQ bears Korolev’s name, while another two are named after Gagarin and Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, a Russian aviation engineer and one of the earliest proponents of space exploration.

    Employees of SpaceX have great respect for Sergey Korolev, his descendant said. “Every day, in one way or another, they walk past the room with a photo of my grandfather.” Andrey added that Musk even gave him a plaque with his grandfather’s name as a gift.

    ‘Squeezing us out of the market’: Russia’s space agency chief rules out any cooperation with Musk & ‘direct competitor’ SpaceX.

    RT.com
    22 Sep, 2021 11:00

    The general director of Russian space agency Roscosmos has accused Elon Musk’s SpaceX of attempting to squeeze it out of the market by operating at a significant loss, calling cooperation between the two “hardly possible.”

    Speaking at the Youth Orbit conference on Tuesday, Roscosmos CEO Dmitry Rogozin explained that the state organization would not work with Musk.

    “It is hardly possible for our organizations to have any cooperation with SpaceX, because they are our direct competitors,” Rogozin said.

    According to the space agency head, SpaceX is likely making losses that are subsidized by funds from the Pentagon and other American government agencies, making them hard to compete with because there is no “fair fight.”

    Until last year, the American space program relied on Roscosmos rockets to send its astronauts to space.

    Musk and Rogozin have a long relationship, and regularly communicate in the public eye, often on Twitter. Last month, the Russian space chief invited the SpaceX founder to the Baikonur Cosmodrome, a space launch facility located in Kazakhstan but leased by Russia. Musk is yet to publicly accept the offer.
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-10-17 at 02:40 PM.

  11. #391
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Tom Cruise has gotta be so mad. I’m sure his will make more money, but it will no longer be the first. Sorry Elon and Tom, Russia beat you to it.
    When is Cruise slatted to go up? Lol re not the first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I wonder about his movies, so much action packed...why even bother going to space? They prob won't let him make any crazy stunts, he could potentially sink the whole station lol..instead such scenes will be done from earth, so why even go up there? just to say you did? I dunno..seems like a big hassle..
    I'm curious about that too. Nolan in Inception pretty much redefined zero-G movie filming, and that was 10+ years ago. It could only have gotten better, and that looked so good another space-oriented movie reshot their zero-G scenes. I'm sure the authenticity will be great, but seems pretty costly to get the shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Russia says musk has been a nice dude, but are suspicious of him..
    Pretty sure Russia is trying to deorbit the ISS early. That thruster "malfunction" was the second time something Russia did threatened the stability of ISS, and that doesn't include the time the Russians poked a hole in the wall and then blamed it on the U.S.

  12. #392
    @cubby I don’t think it’s scheduled yet. It was news last year though.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Pretty sure Russia is trying to deorbit the ISS early. That thruster "malfunction" was the second time something Russia did threatened the stability of ISS, and that doesn't include the time the Russians poked a hole in the wall and then blamed it on the U.S.
    No idea what they are doing. ISS is old and expensive, then there are the politics, vague plans of their own space station like in the good old times and all of these goes together with lack of cash, no matter what propaganda says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  14. #394
    @Rozz I completely disagree with your assessment of there being no need for a space mega-thread. There are tons of things we can talk about and it would definitely benefit from being able to talk about various aspects of it without needing to open a dozen threads. There are small things that happen all the time that really do not need there own thread or they do not relate to SpaceX so they do not get posted. Whereas @cubby megathread the stuff would get linked and talked about. I ask you to close my thread and re-open Cubby's.

  15. #395
    Agreed, Lucy launched and I wasn't sure where to post it.

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...anet-formation

    Notable for being Nasa's first to Jupiter’s Trojan asteroids.

  16. #396
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    @Rozz I completely disagree with your assessment of there being no need for a space mega-thread. There are tons of things we can talk about and it would definitely benefit from being able to talk about various aspects of it without needing to open a dozen threads. There are small things that happen all the time that really do not need there own thread or they do not relate to SpaceX so they do not get posted. Whereas @cubby megathread the stuff would get linked and talked about. I ask you to close my thread and re-open Cubby's.
    As stated before, mega-threads are designed to route discussion in a practical and manageable way. It's not just a "big general topic" thread, as this one and all future space-related threads would be closed and told to go to the one you're requesting for regardless of how specific/niche. That can be more harmful than helpful since it's a type of restriction that can stifle or wash out a topic that'd do better on its own.

    When I said "need", that meant a literal need for consolidation. All existing (specifically titled) "Mega-Threads" exist, because many threads and posters were clamoring to discuss an important (or topical) issue. The fact that there aren't many space-related threads, suggests that forceful consolidation isn't necessary. But we do understand the interest, so the matter is being discussed.
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  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    When I said "need", that meant a literal need for consolidation. All existing (specifically titled) "Mega-Threads" exist, because many threads and posters were clamoring to discuss an important (or topical) issue. The fact that there aren't many space-related threads, suggests that forceful consolidation isn't necessary. But we do understand the interest, so the matter is being discussed.[/COLOR]
    Dunno if you've been reading this thread, but this thread has, in effect, been the space megathread for 10+ pages. The reason you don't see a bunch of space threads is because 1) cmdshep seems to have realized no one is going to let him live the cheerleader/jock/therapist nonsense down 2) the threads that would get posted, get posted in this thread and get 1-2 comments.

    @cubby Some self-reflection is needed. You call others close-minded zealots while 1/2 of this thread has been you defending musk from people who independently have called you out for being a musk fanboi, people who support what spacex is doing, just not its CEO and his business practices. Musk has been building a personality cult for years, and you're lapping it up. To try to help you refocus: you used quora for a source. Ask yourself what your reaction would be to someone who had tried to use quora to make a point in a discussion they were having with you. It's not that I don't like you, I'm just frustrated that you can't see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  18. #398
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Dunno if you've been reading this thread, but this thread has, in effect, been the space megathread for 10+ pages. The reason you don't see a bunch of space threads is because 1) cmdshep seems to have realized no one is going to let him live the cheerleader/jock/therapist nonsense down 2) the threads that would get posted, get posted in this thread and get 1-2 comments.

    @cubby Some self-reflection is needed. You call others close-minded zealots while 1/2 of this thread has been you defending musk from people who independently have called you out for being a musk fanboi, people who support what spacex is doing, just not its CEO and his business practices. Musk has been building a personality cult for years, and you're lapping it up. To try to help you refocus: you used quora for a source. Ask yourself what your reaction would be to someone who had tried to use quora to make a point in a discussion they were having with you. It's not that I don't like you, I'm just frustrated that you can't see it.
    We're all pretty frustrated that you can't see beyond your own zealotry. The three of you should get a room and just continue your non-productive bag sessions. Even the entertainment value of your continual decline into haters is waning. Please, prove me wrong, show me where I defended Musk personally in this thread - we'll wait. The reality is that you three zealots continue to lash out and barb at those that appreciate what Musk and SpaceX has done, professionally.

    Remember - I'm on record not liking the guy personally. More than several times. You're on record as both closed minded and unable to move beyond a singular point. The self reflection is definitely needed, you just need to hold the mirror to yourself. And to complete your intellectual dishonesty, did I not heavily caveat those links to Quora? Or was that fact a little too inconvenient to keep in your vitriol laden comment? I mean, look at the way you describe me lapping up a personality cult...it's near pathetic how stuck you are desperately needing to think I'm some personal fanboi of Musk. All I've ever done is admire SpaceX's achievements.

    @Rozz - it's hard to express how disappointing Ripster's comments are, and how blatantly out of touch his thoughts are with the reality of this thread. If you read the first 10+ pages you will see a fantastic discussion on just one of many topics space related.

    And, if you look back through the last several months, even the past few years, you'll see several threads pop up with space themes/questions/discussions, rising above any one topic. That's where I was hoping a mega thread would go. I'm sorry people like Ripster are weighing down what would otherwise be a good discussion forum.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    Agreed, Lucy launched and I wasn't sure where to post it.

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...anet-formation

    Notable for being Nasa's first to Jupiter’s Trojan asteroids.
    Agreed. So many medium and small projects are tough to find a home for in regards to a discussion.

    Such a great project though, Lucy. Go go NASA.
    Last edited by cubby; 2021-10-19 at 09:18 AM.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Remember - I'm on record not liking the guy personally. More than several times. You're on record as both closed minded and unable to move beyond a singular point. The self reflection is definitely needed, you just need to hold the mirror to yourself. And to complete your intellectual dishonesty, did I not heavily caveat those links to Quora? Or was that fact a little too inconvenient to keep in your vitriol laden comment? I mean, look at the way you describe me lapping up a personality cult...it's near pathetic how stuck you are desperately needing to think I'm some personal fanboi of Musk. All I've ever done is admire SpaceX's achievements.
    You must think people on this forum have goldfish memories. You have been gushing to beiber fever levels of cringe for this guy for YEARS.

    This "I am on record not liking him personally" is a pretty standard tactic on the interwebz to try and make yourself appear reasonable by making a virtually meaningless concession whereas you come across as anything but.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    You must think people on this forum have goldfish memories. You have been gushing to beiber fever levels of cringe for this guy for YEARS.

    This "I am on record not liking him personally" is a pretty standard tactic on the interwebz to try and make yourself appear reasonable by making a virtually meaningless concession whereas you come across as anything but.
    Using "we" for things is also a pretty standard tactic to use, trying to give the impression everyone else takes their position. Cubby uses it quite a lot.

    Honestly, its pretty disappointing that the immediate response to self-reflection is "We're all pretty frustrated that you can't see beyond your own zealotry." Definitely no forthcoming self-reflection.

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