NASA selects SpaceX as its sole provider for a lunar lander

[Easo]

Tesla was already in existence... he came in and pumped money in, and frankly his company is rather shit when you look at how they're making money which is mostly by selling carbon credits... which does fuck all for the environment. We had electric cars before quite popular ones that were then killed off because of car lobbies..

Yeah and he has been in Tesla for how long? That's right, since before their first car ever left the production line. Guess what - pumping money in something still requires some brains and business sense.
And then you end it with some rant about "lobbies". Which, exactly, popular electric cars before Tesla are you talking about?

[Zuben]

Yeah and he has been in Tesla for how long? That's right, since before their first car ever left the production line. Guess what - pumping money in something still requires some brains and business sense.
And then you end it with some rant about "lobbies". Which, exactly, popular electric cars before Tesla are you talking about?

I don't have a source on hand, but I recall reading about a very good electric car model in the 90's that was completely (and aggressively; I think there were lawsuit threats for refusals) recalled. Since the cars apparently worked fine it's prudent to presume this major recall was due to lobbying from traditional car makers.

I also read about a state decree (California, I think?) that traditional car makers had to produce an electric model to the market, so they did, but they were usually deliberately poor quality to discourage consumer interest. There's more money in ICE cars: besides the initial sale they make a killing in maintenance services, which electric cars don't require that much, then there's the whole gasoline market.

We wouldn't have gotten out of that slump without a superstar electric brand like Tesla disrupting consumer interest enough to force a movement. Now traditional car makers can't put the genie back in the bottle anymore.

[cubby]

Yeah and he has been in Tesla for how long? That's right, since before their first car ever left the production line. Guess what - pumping money in something still requires some brains and business sense.
And then you end it with some rant about "lobbies". Which, exactly, popular electric cars before Tesla are you talking about?

He and JohnB are just stuck in the bagging on Musk despite objective achievements. At some point you have to let the guys under the bridge just go. I'm sure I won't be able to do that in the near future, but for now I'm holding it at bay.

I mean, they are seriously saying that to create and build a company all you have to do is "throw money at it". LOLs.

[PACOX]

Isn't their lunar development currently sitting because of Bezos's lawsuit?

But yes, the spacesuits. It's unfortunate they'll be likely delaying Artemis as a whole, but I'm still glad next generation suits are on the development que. Do you know if they're part of the commercial program, or will NASA develop them inhouse only? I liked how Musk insisted on aesthetics being a core consideration in SpaceX's pressure suit, which led to it turning up pretty cool-looking. I'd love to see their take on actual spacesuits. Tbh I'd want to see whole bunch of takes on spacesuits.

I dont think they consider the suits 'proven technology' so making them in-house (they contract use contractors by the development process is more closely controlled).
The hitch is that they're going for a suit designed for multiple purposes, not just a lunar landing.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought Starship didn't even get going on the drawing board until around 2016 whereas SLS started in drafts around 2011...I could be wrong on that timeline though. I find it unsurprising that NASA continues to wallow in logistics (and imo administrative) hell. It's a criticism but not a harsh one, given what they've accomplished over the past 70 years. I do hope SLS works out - multiple launch platforms to the moon help everyone (I know I oversimplified that, lol, don't beat me up too badly).

I'm with @Biglog regarding Blue Origin and Virgin - backyard hobbyists that will make some coin in tourism and peeter out when it comes to actual astronaut launches/development. To me they are the two silly billionaires racing each other to ridiculous space milestones, while SpaceX is doing NASA-quality work.

It is interesting SpaceX isn't doing more landing tests - they have that one success but I would think a few more after multiple explosions would be prudent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spac...opment_history

At one point in time you could have said Blue Origin built respectable engines but 2020 happened and development stalled. Promising praise means nothing if they can't get back on track. Which is better because the US is going to need a new rocket soon, which waiting on a Blue Origin engine (for non-human heavy payloads). Maybe the US ends up buying some Falcon Heavy's instead.

I don't think lumping Blue Origin with Virgin (there's a joke in there) is fair. Virgin is purely for tourism, Blue Origin is a more serious (attempting) company that saw an opportunity to make money off rocket tourism (Shatnet is going up to tomorrow, don't know if it got delayed again as of this post).

[cubby]

I dont think they consider the suits 'proven technology' so making them in-house (they contract use contractors by the development process is more closely controlled).
The hitch is that they're going for a suit designed for multiple purposes, not just a lunar landing.

They are going for the whole enchilada, IIRC. EVA/Moon/Mars and possibly asteroid landings. They want the suit for the next 100 years.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spac...opment_history

Ok, so really just about as long as the SLS. Musk was saying "incoming announcement" in 2013, but said it prior to then. And the funding act for the SLS was in 2010. So just about the same timeline.

[Afrospinach]

Which, exactly, popular electric cars before Tesla are you talking about?

Milk floats!

[JohnBrown1917]

He and JohnB are just stuck in the bagging on Musk despite objective achievements. At some point you have to let the guys under the bridge just go. I'm sure I won't be able to do that in the near future, but for now I'm holding it at bay.

I mean, they are seriously saying that to create and build a company all you have to do is "throw money at it". LOLs.

Eh... yes, money is the most important part of getting a company to grow, that and marketing. Neither of which are related to him being a engineering you keep claiming without anything to back it up. Meanwhile you just flat out deny whatever shitty things he does, his union busting, trying to ruin the reputation of a rescue diver because he had his feefees hurt, ignoring the California corona rules for his factories etc. But hey, I suppose the last one is only bad if somebody who you dislike ignores those rules, right? Musk fanboys are really no different than Trump fanboys.


All his so called objective achievements belong to the engineers who did the actual work.

[cubby]

Eh... yes, money is the most important part of getting a company to grow, that and marketing. Neither of which are related to him being a engineering you keep claiming without anything to back it up. Meanwhile you just flat out deny whatever shitty things he does, his union busting, trying to ruin the reputation of a rescue diver because he had his feefees hurt, ignoring the California corona rules for his factories etc. But hey, I suppose the last one is only bad if somebody who you dislike ignores those rules, right? Musk fanboys are really no different than Trump fanboys.


All his so called objective achievements belong to the engineers who did the actual work.

The best part of the above is that he doesn't even see his own contradiction re Musk and company development. But that's what you get from biased people who can't evaluate objective achievements.

Did I deny his shitty things? Aren't I on record, in this very thread, pointing out the bad things he does? Isn't it amazing how "you zealots" can't keep the biased out of even your most basic statements?

[Hollycakes]

If Jeff Bezos kills James T. Kirk, I'm gonna riot.

[cubby]

If Jeff Bezos kills James T. Kirk, I'm gonna riot.

Ok, right? Fucking 90 years old. Six G forces on the parachute landing alone. Plus whatever there is on launch, which I would assume is more than 1. I know they did their health "work up" on him - at least they showed it - but I'm deeply curious how many health waivers he had to sign. I bet there is an ironclad indemnity clause, over and above what the other astronauts tourist have to sign.

Rofl at 10 minutes in "space".

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I don't think lumping Blue Origin with Virgin (there's a joke in there) is fair. Virgin is purely for tourism, Blue Origin is a more serious (attempting) company that saw an opportunity to make money off rocket tourism (Shatnet is going up to tomorrow, don't know if it got delayed again as of this post).

On Branson endeavors, while the space tourism does take the limelight, it is often forgotten that he has many ventures. In a sense he is currently ahead of Bezos as his LauncherOne rocket, launched from his Cosmic Girl modified 747, successfully reached orbit.

It was first a comparatively low profile Virgin Galactic project, but now has been spun out as the separate Virgin Orbit entity.

While it competes in the separate smallsat segment, it does have the merit of existing and already having a list of customers.


On Bezos, I sincerely hope he manages to seriously restarts their non-tourism projects using his teams of engineers and not lawyers...

I do see great potential for their choice of Hydrolox in the long run, given the prospective ban of hydrocarbon fuels and shift to a hydrogen economy.

[Easo]

I guess we can congratulate Shatner with the 100km jump. I would not mind doing it at all.

Milk floats!

Yeah, basically the only thing I can find. We fricking still don't have good battery technology, there simply could not have been good eletric cars, lobby or not, say 30 years ago.

[PACOX]

On Branson endeavors, while the space tourism does take the limelight, it is often forgotten that he has many ventures. In a sense he is currently ahead of Bezos as his LauncherOne rocket, launched from his Cosmic Girl modified 747, successfully reached orbit.

It was first a comparatively low profile Virgin Galactic project, but now has been spun out as the separate Virgin Orbit entity.

While it competes in the separate smallsat segment, it does have the merit of existing and already having a list of customers.


On Bezos, I sincerely hope he manages to seriously restarts their non-tourism projects using his teams of engineers and not lawyers...

I do see great potential for their choice of Hydrolox in the long run, given the prospective ban of hydrocarbon fuels and shift to a hydrogen economy.

Missed Virgin successfully launching their rocket. Thanks for the info.

[cubby]

On Bezos, I sincerely hope he manages to seriously restarts their non-tourism projects using his teams of engineers and not lawyers...

I do see great potential for their choice of Hydrolox in the long run, given the prospective ban of hydrocarbon fuels and shift to a hydrogen economy.

Can the consummate hobbyist's rockets even reach orbit at this point? The last two launches barely made the K line, space*. I would think that if they could go higher, they would. If they can't, won't Bezos/BO have to build an entirely new engine?

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Missed Virgin successfully launching their rocket. Thanks for the info.

So Virgin is categorically ahead of BO. Only BO of the three can't reach orbit?

[Themius]

Rofl at people who think Elon had a meaningful engineering role with his rockets. His biggest contribution is he told them to make it pointy because he watched a movie. As per Musk.

Cubby had me convince I was almost missing something..

CEO had hand in the design is like the most typical shit of ANY company. If a perfume CEO becomes the CEO of a car company and because of their aesthetic eye can pick what shape of car to make (after being given 100 designs) they didn't fucking design or engineer shit. Cubby seems to have missed this.

[cubby]

Rofl at people who think Elon had a meaningful engineering role with his rockets. His biggest contribution is he told them to make it pointy because he watched a movie. As per Musk.

Rofl at people who blatantly lie because they have nothing solid to contribute.

[Themius]

Rofl at people who blatantly lie because they have nothing solid to contribute.

You've contributed nothing to defend your point. I asked for specific engineering achievements of which you've offered up nilch.

[cubby]

Cubby had me convince I was almost missing something..

CEO had hand in the design is like the most typical shit of ANY company. If a perfume CEO becomes the CEO of a car company and because of their aesthetic eye can pick what shape of car to make (after being given 100 designs) they didn't fucking design or engineer shit. Cubby seems to have missed this.

You did. Continually.

Elon Musk contributed a lot to the start of SpaceX - engineering and administrative know how. Remember, you're still looking for your hypocrisy from previous posts in this thread. You literally contradicted yourself regarding companies in this thread, and still haven't found it.

[Themius]

You did. Continually.

Elon Musk contributed a lot to the start of SpaceX - engineering and administrative know how. Remember, you're still looking for your hypocrisy from previous posts in this thread. You literally contradicted yourself regarding companies in this thread, and still haven't found it.

We are talking about engineering genius why the fuck are you talking about "administrative work" You said he helped design... well the people that work there say they go to musk with hundreds of designs and he has input on them and he picks THAT ISN'T ENGINEERING

[cubby]

You've contributed nothing to defend your point. I asked for specific engineering achievements of which you've offered up nilch.

And I told you. He helped complete the design on the original rocket used in the first four flights, and another person told you Musk helped on the actual launches. Musk is a rocket engineer. Just because you don't like him personally, doesn't make it less true.