NASA selects SpaceX as its sole provider for a lunar lander

[Themius]

And I told you. He helped complete the design on the original rocket used in the first four flights, and another person told you Musk helped on the actual launches. Musk is a rocket engineer. Just because you don't like him personally, doesn't make it less true.

He helped complete the design... by giving input on which designs that were already engineered for him... and having people actually engineer it.

It's like how an artist can sketch a building BUT THE ARCHICHEST AND CIVIL ENGINEERS ARE THE ONES TO MAKE IT A FUCKING REALITY

[cubby]

We are talking about engineering genius why the fuck are you talking about "administrative work" You said he helped design... well the people that work there say they go to musk with hundreds of designs and he has input on them and he picks THAT ISN'T ENGINEERING

I'm answering both your critiques of Musk at the same time. His engineering prowess helped at the start, and his administrative prowess has been key during the entire growth of SpaceX. You said "he just threw money as SpaceX and others did it" - which is categorically wrong, in a number of different arenas.

- - - Updated - - -

16 miles above where space begins IS space. Elon Musk isn’t an engineer. Thanks for catching up.

Ok, sure - 11 minutes is super cool. Musk is an engineer. You zealots crack me up every time you show up for these discussions.

- - - Updated - - -

He helped complete the design... by giving input on which designs that were already engineered for him... and having people actually engineer it.

Thank you for admitting I was right. This has been my entire point from the beginning.

[cubby]

You didn’t take issue with the time, you mocked the idea he went to space. And Musk is a software engineer. As one myself I can tell you it’s not the same thing as an engineer. Let alone one who designs reusable rockets. Musk’s own company refuses to detail how “involved” he was in the design process because his involvement came down to aesthetic choices, not engineering ones.

He's more than a software engineer. I can't help you if you can't face facts and reality. Keep going with your zealotry though - it's adorable.

Or, cite where you're getting your info on him. My says different.

(and I mocked almost everything about Bezos at one point - don't take one statement I said and pretend I haven't said more in other places - please be at least better than that)

[Themius]

I'm answering both your critiques of Musk at the same time. His engineering prowess helped at the start, and his administrative prowess has been key during the entire growth of SpaceX. You said "he just threw money as SpaceX and others did it" - which is categorically wrong, in a number of different arenas.

- - - Updated - - -



Ok, sure - 11 minutes is super cool. Musk is an engineer. You zealots crack me up every time you show up for these discussions.

- - - Updated - - -



Thank you for admitting I was right. This has been my entire point from the beginning.

THAT DOESN'T JUSTIFY YOU CALLING HIM AN ENGINEERING GENIUS The fuck are you confused about? Is an artist who sketches a building a civil engineering genius because they hire architects and engineers to do the work to make their vision real?

- - - Updated - - -

He's more than a software engineer. I can't help you if you can't face facts and reality. Keep going with your zealotry though - it's adorable.

Or, cite where you're getting your info on him. My says different.

(and I mocked almost everything about Bezos at one point - don't take one statement I said and pretend I haven't said more in other places - please be at least better than that)

You can't help anyone because you can't find shit to justify your position else you would have done so by now instead of pestering us with fluff.

[cubby]

THAT DOESN'T JUSTIFY YOU CALLING HIM AN ENGINEERING GENIUS The fuck are you confused about?

No, the only one that's confused here is you. You just said he contributed to the engineering designs of the first rockets. Admitting I was right all along. After that it's just semantics, so when you're no longer confused, we can continue the rest of the discussion.

[cubby]

His biography. Dude has never worked as an engineer nor been educated as one. Fuck, he only has a BS in economics(weird, he made his money off charging people to pay for shit online…) and his degree in material sciences is a bachelor of arts. That means he couldn’t pass the required courses for the BS in materials, the first steps towards being an engineer. Then he got accepted to a course to become an engineer and promptly dropped out because it was too hard. He then tried to get a job coding and was rejected because he sucks at that too. He then made paypal so people could pay for shit on ebay and got rich skimming off the top(charging a usage fee). Dude is a piece of shit that has convinced gullible people he has something to offer besides funding/marketing. Just like Steve Jobs.

And you're wrong, again, as usual. His degree is Economic and Physics, both from the University of Penn. He was admitted to the Materials Science PhD program at Stanford, but quit after two days.

Please try and get your basic facts right before having a conversation about a topic. For all of us.

You don't need formal training as an engineer to work and be an engineer. I know you want to argue with this, but you're wrong to do so, as even the Professional Engineering designations in some states don't require an engineering degree. And the P.E. allows you to certify engineering plans and train other engineers. I'm not saying Musk was a P.E., I'm just cutting off your argument at the pass, when you try to say you have to have an engineering degree to be an engineer.

- - - Updated - - -

Ruh roh Shaggy.

Right? I'm not sure why he's arguing with himself. He admitted I was right two posts ago.

[Themius]

No, the only one that's confused here is you. You just said he contributed to the engineering designs of the first rockets. Admitting I was right all along. After that it's just semantics, so when you're no longer confused, we can continue the rest of the discussion.

Lol any bendito……bendito no….don’t do this to yourself.

[Themius]

Ruh roh Shaggy.

This is funny because he is ignoring the fact I asked for engineering genius proof and have asked if an artist is a civil engineer genius for sketching a building. He somehow thinks things choosing designs is the same as contributing towards the engineering….uh I guess like me asking for an extra floor to a building is me contributing to something that affects engineering…yet how does this make me a genius in engineering.

He literally can’t provide anything to prove this point.

“Make it pointy.”

Cubby - “HES AN ENGINEERING MARVEL LOOK HE DID SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS ENGINEERING”

SO does every ceo at every company or a vast majority.

[cubby]

Duck, I flipped the two. Sorry, my brain does that. Guess what though? I know people who work at SpaceX. Elon isn’t designing shit. Aside from suggesting “make it pointy… like in the Dictator!”

He sure as shit isn't designing much NOW, but I never said he was doing it now. I said early on, when he couldn't afford enough people, he chipped in during the design and build phases.

(where are you getting that quote - it's the second time you've mentioned; I would like a cite, please)

Meanwhile, your other zealot, Themius, has literally said it doesn't take anything to grow a company except money - that Musk literally did nothing but throw some cash at a problem and POOF it was solved.

Even you can see the folly in that.

- - - Updated - - -

This is funny because he is ignoring the fact I asked for engineering genius proof and have asked if an artist is a civil engineer genius for sketching a building. He somehow thinks things choosing designs is the same as contributing towards the engineering….uh I guess like me asking for an extra floor to a building is me contributing to something that affects engineering…yet how does this make me a genius in engineering.

He literally can’t provide anything to prove this point.

“Make it pointy.”

Cubby - “HES AN ENGINEERING MARVEL LOOK HE DID SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS ENGINEERING”

SO does every ceo at every company or a vast majority.

It's funny because:

[Musk] helped complete the design.

You admitted I was right. I was actually more right than you're admitting here, but at least he healing has begun.

Why do you zealots choose to die on the dumbest fucking hills?

[cubby]

His “contribution” was telling them they couldn’t use the more efficient rounded nose cone… because he saw a movie.

*Edited*

Do you have a source for that? You keep repeating it.

I'm working on finding a source you guys would accept. Wiki doesn't cut it, and most of the articles I'm seeing are puff pieces cribbed from Wiki and shitty journalism.

[cubby]

Cite what? My evidence he never did shit? You’re the one claiming he did. Cite your evidence. I bet you think Edison invented a ton of shit too… just sad.

Cite the quote you keep saying he got from a movie - the one I've asked for three times now. About the nose cone.

[cubby]

Yes, multiple people who work for him. Hell, his interview with Joe Rogan. He himself says he told them make it pointy because I saw a movie. They can’t deny it! That’s when Joe asked him how he helped design their rockets. Dude was drunk and high at the time. Thus, very honest.

Go watch the interview, I’m not revisiting it.

Pa-fucking-thetic. "The evidence exists, go find it yourself!" Serious Vegas, you're channeling TexasRules at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

Still waiting on evidence of ANY engineering prowess from Musk. One thing he designed that was new.

I'm working on a source you two will accept.

[cubby]

Cool, I’ll find the timestamp once you come up with a schematic/blueprint. You’ve been asked far more, and sooner, than I to provide a sauce.

Nope, sorry. You claimed the quote, link it or it doesn't exist.

I never said I would provide a blueprint/schematic. That's your little goal post. If he said, show me the quote, and shut me down. Why would you not want to do that immediately? If you're right, shouldn't you be thrilled with the prospect of doing so?

I'm trying to find some decent cites that show Musk's early engineering contributions - categorically proving it. Right now I'm swimming in puff pieces cribbed from Wiki or stuff that just isn't specific enough.

[cubby]

Cool, I’ll find the timestamp once you come up with a schematic/blueprint. You’ve been asked far more, and sooner, than I to provide a sauce.

- - - Updated - - -

Since it’s @cubby, here’s mine in good faith.
[/video snip]

Great. Thanks - now where is the part of the interview that says that's the only thing Musk contributed? That was your point, remember:

His “contribution” was telling them they couldn’t use the more efficient rounded nose cone… because he saw a movie.

And that quote was for Starship, not for the Falcon. In case you're as confused as Themius, Falcon came WAY before Starship. Thanks for also admitting you were wrong. I appreciate the honesty. You two are both getting better at this.

And now I owe you a cite.

[cubby]

Damn, already did. Your turn counselor.

But I appreciate the shout and you getting it - seriously, outside of my specific comments, that was well done.

Serious question - what sources would you accept for proof of engineering contribution to SpaceX outside of "nosecones round are cool".

- - - Updated - - -

You’ve owed one for a while, I said you statement that he’s an engineer is false. You started the debate with that, I responded he hasn’t done shit but what I provided evidence he did. You’ve thus far failed to show he has ever engineered anything but profits based on no effort of his own.

I do, but keep in mind, you were wrong on your quote. You didn't lie, per se, but you sure didn't tell the truth. That quote was about Starship, not Falcon. But please see serious question above.

[cubby]

How? Show the proof, fuck. Stop responding and go track it down.

I am, as I've said many times.

I love your late night posting, seriously cracks me up. I can tell almost exactly when the "late" part of your night starts, too.

And you’ve backed fuck all up and just cried about other people not qualifying statements. I said all he contributed was that aspect due to anecdotal knowledge. I provided evidence that’s what he provided because that’s all he had when asked by Joe. Sorry, that’s how it works in my head based on basic logic and foreknowledge when I heard the interview.

You actually lied, and then provided proof of your lie. Which, ultimately I appreciate you proving yourself wrong, but I already knew you were wrong, you didn't have to provide a cite for your lie.

Still looking for good source on early engineering contributions...sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

[MENTION=521291]I realized I didn’t tell you an acceptable source. Anything reputable. Link something talking about something specific he contributed to the engineering. Not “he helped complete the design” because that’s PR speak for he picked the paint job and said don’t make it dick shaped.

Like what?

Wiki? No way.
Puff piece? I wouldn't take that.

I'm 100+ articles in and nothing that says yay or nay to his engineering contributions. There is a book out, but I'm not going to finish that tonight.

[cubby]

What did I lie about?

- - - Updated - - -
@cubby I think I get what you’re saying. Sorry I wasn’t more clear. I once asked Tony what Elon actually did to help engineer the rockets at SpaceX and he said, “He picked the shape and that’s about it, which he’ll basically tell you himself.” He then basically told Joe Rogan that himself on the podcast. Sorry, I stop being able to slow my thought process down late night and usually skip from A to D.

Ok, that's a much clearer context of the quote/interview you provided. And I very much appreciate the clarification. Thank you. But the quote was about Starship, which came much later. That's in the interview you cited. Who is Tony?

I'm still working on what you and others have requested I have to admit, it's telling that I can't find something that even remotely says Musk helped with the rocket design. It's been easy to confirm that he learned deeply of rocket design and propulsion, and then went and recruited a team that did all the building and testing, with Musk's direction and leadership. However, that was not my claim.

The search continues.

[cubby]

I’m just saying the guy isn’t remotely qualified to design a car. Let alone reusable rockets that land on barges.

I'm not sure I would accept this. It's cited by an expert, but comes from Quora:

Andrew Forrest
Chief Engineer at Solstad Offshore (2005-present)
Answered 2 years ago · Author has 5.3K answers and 10.6M answer views
Given that Musk can answer basically any question about the technical details on any of his rockets, I’d say he’s intimately acquainted with the design work. The man is a sponge, he absorbs things very quickly, and what’s more retains this knowledge. The title of “Chief Designer” is not a courtesy, he actually does have a very active input into even small details (some would say even to the micro-management level).

Basically, he sets the goals and directions then gets involved where ever he sees the need for his input. If you’re an engineer tasked with a certain job, and you can’t get it done, Musk will replace you with himself and get the job done no matter how over-the-top his requirements are.

I'm still working on better cites/sources.

[cubby]

This might be better. Mueller, former CTO of SpaceX, citing in an article that Musk specifically contributed to and directly chose a direction to go with the Merlin engine.

Mueller tells how, during the development of the Merlin 1D, he and Musk disagreed about a highly technical point of rocket design involving valves. “I advised him against it; I said it’s going to be too hard to do, and it’s not going to save that much. But... we went and developed that engine; and it was hard. We blew up a lot of hardware. And we probably tried a hundred different combinations to make it work, but we made it work. And now we have the lowest-cost, most reliable engines in the world. And it was basically because of that decision. So that’s one of the examples of Elon just really pushing - he always says we need to push to the limits of physics.”

The article title is weird, because it seems to be about Tesla. But it's about both SpaceX and Tesla and then Musk.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright, well I had fun at the Caps game so I’m gonna get some sleep before I inevitably get up in 3.5 hours. I’ll do my best to wake up before responding again.

See you in the morning - go Caps! I hope to have better info for you.

Cheers!

- - - Updated - - -

Another employee of SpaceX saying that Musk directly contributed to rocket design:

Josh Boehm
former Head of Software Quality Assurance at SpaceX (2012-2015)
Flight Hardware Manager at SpaceX (2016-present)
Elon is both the Chief Executive Officer and Chief Technology Officer of SpaceX, so of course he does more than just ‘some very technical work’. He is integrally involved in the actual design and engineering of the rocket, and at least touches every other aspect of the business (but I would say the former takes up much more of his mental real estate). Elon is an engineer at heart, and that’s where and how he works best.

Another current SpaceX employee:

Tyler Anderson
Reliability Analysis Engineer at SpaceX (2017-present)
He does do technical work. He is intimately involved in the design process, though I HIGHLY doubt that includes making 3D CAD designs of individual parts, programming flight software, or anything as fundamental as that.

[PACOX]

I'll sau this about Musk.

He isn't at the drafting table drawing up technical schematics and doing rocket science like Von Braun. He isn't an engineer by trade either. He does know enough about rockets and engineering to offer direction to engineers and come up with feasible applications. He didn't come up with the VTOL rocket, SpaceX didn't invent the VTOL rocket (vertical takeoff and landing) but like Steve Jobs and Apple with the iPod, they refined existing technology/concepts into a better product. Musk like a rocket A&R (music).

I don't like the man, I think he has done a good job at making it seem like he is more involved hands-on or knows more than he actual does, he has garnered a lot of new attention of rockets/space while at the same time having a hand in a lot of misinformation/misunderstandings spreading, but he does have a good idea every now and then.

He seems himself as Tony Stark but is more Lex Luthor in a business sense.