Why do beings of Death mostly use Shadow magic?

[huth]

And you are correct that the Emerald Dream is a Titan product which creates quite some confusion, since they are not from the Life domain, but one of them, Eonar, is literally called "Lifebinder" (a title she passed on to Alex when empowering her) so there must be some connection.

It's still not been clearly stated whether they actually created it or merely accessed a pre-existing plane of existence, so one shouldn't over-interpret it.

There's also the question of how much of this is forced, and how much is Life just taking what it gets.

[TheRevenantHero]

It's simple. Blizzard is lazy and doesn't want to make a new damage type.

[Aucald]

It's simple. Blizzard is lazy and doesn't want to make a new damage type.

I wouldn't say that's down to laziness. Adding new damage types would open up a Pandora's Box of issues as concerns counters, lockouts, resistances (less of a concern now but still a factor), immunities, and synergies. Easy enough to make this a gameplay vs. lore distinction and just use visualizations to define "Death" magic but have them taxonomically deal whatever existing type is appropriate on a system level.

[huth]

I wouldn't say that's down to laziness. Adding new damage types would open up a Pandora's Box of issues as concerns counters, lockouts, resistances (less of a concern now but still a factor), immunities, and synergies. Easy enough to make this a gameplay vs. lore distinction and just use visualizations to define "Death" magic but have them taxonomically deal whatever existing type is appropriate on a system level.

I'd be more interested in purely aesthetic School names for the classes. Like Druids using Solar and Lunar instead of Nature and Arcane, without any actual functionality change.

[Aucald]

I'd be more interested in purely aesthetic School names for the classes. Like Druids using Solar and Lunar instead of Nature and Arcane, without any actual functionality change.

I imagine that'd be entirely possible as just a mask on the type in the various strings. The back-end would probably still use the existing types, but the log could report something else, depending on how the engine works.

[TheRevenantHero]

I wouldn't say that's down to laziness. Adding new damage types would open up a Pandora's Box of issues as concerns counters, lockouts, resistances (less of a concern now but still a factor), immunities, and synergies. Easy enough to make this a gameplay vs. lore distinction and just use visualizations to define "Death" magic but have them taxonomically deal whatever existing type is appropriate on a system level.

Wouldn't that most just be an enemy things they'd need to mess with? Because players really don't need to worry much about energy types against themselves and other players. I feel like it could definitely be done if it was just one more energy type in modern WoW.

[Sagenod]

Well, if it isn't, then your point is largely meaningless.

There is no magic exclusively used by undead. Shadow is pretty much just a generic term for any dark magics in-universe, not referring to any magic in particular.

In the time you refer to, there wasn't really any real established magic lore yet.

You know I would agree with you completely on this if it weren't for the fact that the Shadow Priest spec was given the Void treatment. Before that, you could still follow the head canon that your Priest character uses shadow abilities that are drawn from a unique source of power (such as trolls getting shadow magic from hir'eek, a loa certainly not directly related to death). However, the Priest class as it exists in WoW correlated Shadow to Void. Combine that with Shadow being lumped in with Void on the cosmology chart and it paints the picture that Shadow=Void.

Of course, in game mechanics this isn't the case which I understand. While I'm on topic, I'll add that lightning bolt, chain lightning and other related abilities deal nature damage rather than "storm" damage or whatever. Having too many magical damage types in game will needlessly complicate things more anyhow.

[huth]

I imagine that'd be entirely possible as just a mask on the type in the various strings. The back-end would probably still use the existing types, but the log could report something else, depending on how the engine works.

Yeah, that's pretty much what i'm talking about. Same actual damage types, just a fancy name based on class/circumstances. Ideally coming along with some Racial themed variations on classes - i'd love to be a Kul Tiran Thornspeaker handling Life and Death rather than a Lun'alai or a Circle Druid.

You know I would agree with you completely on this if it weren't for the fact that the Shadow Priest spec was given the Void treatment. Before that, you could still follow the head canon that your Priest character uses shadow abilities that are drawn from a unique source of power (such as trolls getting shadow magic from hir'eek, a loa certainly not directly related to death). However, the Priest class as it exists in WoW correlated Shadow to Void. Combine that with Shadow being lumped in with Void on the cosmology chart and it paints the picture that Shadow=Void.

Of course, in game mechanics this isn't the case which I understand. While I'm on topic, I'll add that lightning bolt, chain lightning and other related abilities deal nature damage rather than "storm" damage or whatever. Having too many magical damage types in game will needlessly complicate things more anyhow.

The problem comes in when you consider that a lot of stuff that didn't have anything to do with the Shadow in that way was also lumped in there. Shadow prior to the Void concept taking form wasn't really a particularly well-defined force, just something everything bad was blamed on, more or less. Even some relatively normal illnesses dealt shadow damage despite not really being magical in nature.

[Houle]

Death, Shadow and Fel were only separated in lore relatively recently. It's the same reason warlocks use Shadowbolts and Voidwalkers, and DKs leave a "Void Touched" debuff when they resurrect you.

this is the only correct answer.
hell, ner'zhul was all about ressurecting the dead with void magic, and even called the edge of reality "shadow lands" back in WoD.

[loras]

Uh huh. You got any sort of source for that bit on Alleria? Because no where (as far as I am aware) has that been stated. The Voices she and the other Void Elves are hearing come from the Void itself, they are the corrupting influence they have to resist. It's precisely her emotions (mainly her love for her son, husband and sister Vareesa) that keep also her to fight against this influence.

As for the "one instance". There is also the fact that Void tried to invade Bastion and was subsequently beaten back. But we are only now learning more about these things. Maybe at the end of the expansion we have a clearer picture of the cosmic forces.



Actually it did. In Wrath it was stated that undead are immune to the wispers of the Void, which is why Icecrown could be build from the literal blood of Yogg'saron without driving the undead inside insane. This does not mean undead cannot use the Void, but they cannot be corrupted by it or at least not completely.
Hearthstone btw, is not a good reference, they play very fast and loose with lore for comedic effect over there. I just point to the expansion where a group of villains stole Dalaran by mounting rockets onto it.



Yes, like the other Forces, Life is beyond definitions of good and evil, it follows it's agenda and does not care what us little people from our little planet think of it.

And you are correct that the Emerald Dream is a Titan product which creates quite some confusion, since they are not from the Life domain, but one of them, Eonar, is literally called "Lifebinder" (a title she passed on to Alex when empowering her) so there must be some connection.

Of course much of this is a result of the lore not being fully fleshed out at the time some of these stories were written and most likely that is what we will have to content with.

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See the just about any lore regarding the old gods, the sha and the nature of the void. Hell "the" void isn't even a unified thing at any level (void lords), any instance of any whispers by "it" and related creatures are always limited in scope.
It's really not hard to see, though various people seem to want to see death as a sort of kryptonite to the void which may cloud their judgement.

And indeed, the light is the mirror image of the void and favors positive emotions, thus explaining how they would similarly allow them to be used to stave off some of the void influences.

But yeah, as the story progresses more might become clear - or rewritten. Time will tell.

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I recall them being at odds with it and taking precautions against it, not anything about having notable resistance to it. The closest thing to resistance i suppose is that scourge mental domination was strong enough to protect, to some extent, against the dominating influence of thr old gods in undead creatures, as seen by the Nerubians' immunity to Ner'zhul's psychic powers while alive fading when they were raised under scourge influence.

This also allowed them to use saronite relatively safely in the way you mention it, but keep in mind that we could do so too as mere living mortals. Saronite used in such a way is "dead" after all, though as we know death means little to beings of the void, as has often been repeated and illustrated since WotLK. I suspect Icecrown's saronite foundations might be used by Yogg Saron to assault the shadowlands somewhere down the line now that the helm of dominion is no longer there to counter his lingering (or perhaps resurgent) influence.

And be that is it may regarding hearthstone they do predate WoW in several respects, such as regarding the introduction of the Tortollan, but the point remains that various forsaken have fallen under the influence of the old gods in i.e. the twilight's hammer, sometimes in ranking positions.
And it serves to note that the undead on azeroth are "young" and the void is nothing if not patient and. subtle, explaining much of their limited numbers among such groups.

At any rate the presence of even a single one already disproves that they'd be anything close to immune: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Domina

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Fair enough a point, we'll indeed see what lies in store.

[TheFirstOnes]

The powers the Jailer's using is Domination, which is a mix of colors such as Grey, Green, Red, Purple, Orange, Yellow, and even Blue.

Mf got the rainbow in the Maw.

[Ragedaug]

Why do beings of Death mostly use Shadow magic? Why is this so? Isn't this somewhat contradictory?

Because "Alex Afrasiabi", and this...

Because all the lore post-Cataclysm is pulled out of a hat in a boardroom meeting of directors a couple of months before the content goes live.

Once Metzen stepped down and Alex took over, the lore got all kinds of wonky. So we are left with the option of either suspending disbelief and just accepting all the things, or driving yourself crazy trying to make sense of it. I suspect very little logic when into these lore decisions, so they just are what they are.

[shoc]

Because "Alex Afrasiabi", and this...



Once Metzen stepped down and Alex took over, the lore got all kinds of wonky. So we are left with the option of either suspending disbelief and just accepting all the things, or driving yourself crazy trying to make sense of it. I suspect very little logic when into these lore decisions, so they just are what they are.

Denathrius is the best evidence of this. He was written back into the story post-Shadowlands launch because he was popular with the players. At first, his death was changed to imprisonment forever, now less than 1 patch in he's being written completely back into the plot. It's a fanservice narrative at best, although WoW has always prioritized the rule of cool, it's now the rule of least criticism.

[huth]

Denathrius is the best evidence of this. He was written back into the story post-Shadowlands launch because he was popular with the players. At first, his death was changed to imprisonment forever, now less than 1 patch in he's being written completely back into the plot. It's a fanservice narrative at best, although WoW has always prioritized the rule of cool, it's now the rule of least criticism.

You make that sound like this wasn't how they did everything back when Metzen was running things.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

Because every attempt Blizzard has made at expanding the lore has made it far more complicated. At one time Fel was implied to be a class of Arcane (Classic quest / character creation text states that all magic comes from the Twisting Nether), and then you had Light and Shadow.

Now you’ve got that absurd cosmology chart that has always raised more questions than it answered.

[Dhrizzle]

Because all the lore post-Cataclysm is pulled out of a hat in a boardroom meeting of directors a couple of months before the content goes live.

Game mechanics of the magical elements were screwy way before Cataclysm. Look at how "nature" covers everything from lightning to nature magic to water-based healing to throwing rocks while warlocks and priests use the same sort of shadow.

- - - Updated - - -

Denathrius is the best evidence of this. He was written back into the story post-Shadowlands launch because he was popular with the players. At first, his death was changed to imprisonment forever, now less than 1 patch in he's being written completely back into the plot. It's a fanservice narrative at best, although WoW has always prioritized the rule of cool, it's now the rule of least criticism.

Again this is the kind of thing that WoW has always contained, look at Varian in Vanilla when he was meant to be found on Alcaz island at the end of the Missing Diplomat quest chain, only for Blizz to never get around to finishing the quests then having Wrynn just turn up after retconning in a gladiator-slave revolution story.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

Game mechanics of the magical elements were screwy way before Cataclysm. Look at how "nature" covers everything from lightning to nature magic to water-based healing to throwing rocks while warlocks and priests use the same sort of shadow.

That’s actually far more cohesive in it’s simplicity, though. Nature magic is whatever powers can be drawn directly from the Great Dark Beyond (the elements and everything druids can do), while the Arcane is the power that seeps in from the Twisting Nether. The Light and Void (the source of Shadow) are the fundamental forces of creation, and where priests either lean into one side or the other, or seek to find a balance between the two, warlocks draw upon the inherently destructive / entropic forces of both the Shadow and the Arcane (AKA Fel)

[Sidiusss]

Because shadow magic is only intended for some classes due to the fact that there are buffs that strengthen shadow magic, such as on shadow priest or warlock.

[Alanar]

These type of questions.. no offence are pointless.

It fits, sounds cool and people will be familiar with it.

[Dhrizzle]

That’s actually far more cohesive in it’s simplicity, though. Nature magic is whatever powers can be drawn directly from the Great Dark Beyond (the elements and everything druids can do), while the Arcane is the power that seeps in from the Twisting Nether. The Light and Void (the source of Shadow) are the fundamental forces of creation, and where priests either lean into one side or the other, or seek to find a balance between the two, warlocks draw upon the inherently destructive / entropic forces of both the Shadow and the Arcane (AKA Fel)

Shouldn't fire and frost be included under "nature" then, and the nature spells of druids come from the Emerald Dream and not the great dark beyond. Also back in Vanilla the Warlock's shadow spells were supposed to be fel, not drawn from the void the same way as Shadow Priests.

Also back in the day there was arguments about the validity of Druids using arcane spells when the Night Elves famously hated arcane magic, though personally I thought it made sense with their spells having parallels to mage abilities (shapeshift = self-polymorph and teleport to Moonglade the same as Mage teleport spells) and the Night Elves having a connection to the Well of Eternity.