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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    How are Europeans generally poorer, if bigger percentage of population, statistically, is in fact richer in Europe?
    Hence, the initial argument is false and really offensive.
    https://ru-geld.de/en/salary/europe.html

    Try this for comparison. EU countries vary wildly regarding income. What's considered "low income" in one country may be an average one in another, and you picked out some of the higher countries there.

    Meanwhile, the sub costs the same in all of them.

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire AkundaMrdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    Here you say that Europeans are more reluctant to spend money (which might be the case and I agree with a general feeling of this statement), but in the previous post it was said that "lots of European players are poor", which is, once again, not backed by any data by the OP and really offensive.
    To post some data, back in 2010:
    26% of adults in US were in low income group, and 56% in Middle class, wherea's in Spain it was 24% adults in low income and 64% in middle class.
    If you go further compare:
    26% low income, 56% middle class in US vs. 14%/80% in Denmark, 18%/72% in Germany, 13%/79% in Netherlands and let's throw in 17%/74% in France.

    How are Europeans generally poorer, if bigger percentage of population, statistically, is in fact richer in Europe?
    Hence, the initial argument is false and really offensive.

    EDIT:
    Source of data: Luxembourg’s Cross-National Data Center
    Let me guess, you are stupid American, who thinks Europe ends with Germany and everything east is Asia, right? So yes, a lot of European players is poor, compared to USA or any western European country. Average monthly salary here is 3 times lower than in Germany, countries like Ukraine, Belarus or Balcan countries are even much, much poorer, when they have 200 - 300€ monthly salary as low income jobs, paying 13€ sub is pretty significant, which is why much more people buy gold, making token prices than on US.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    The thing you are not comparing is what it means to be "middle class" in absolute terms. Even though the tokens are somewhat comparable price, it's a much lower spending item for someone with a middle class US wage. Without going for any hard data, in absolute terms, middle class in the US can afford more "stuff" than middle class in Europe.
    That's so wrong in every sense of the word.

    The richest regions in the world are all in Europe (but yes we also have very poor EU countries).

    The average net wealth per individual in Europe is nearly double of that of the US (and you have like what 60% of all the billionaire capital in the world).

    If we look at house ownership, in Europe nearly 60% of the entire population owns their own home, in the US it's not even 40%.

    Europeans are not poorer, they unlike Americans aim to own their own house, their own car, by their mid to late 30's so they tend to save a lot and not overspend, the average american on the other hand has so many credit cards that by the end of the year they need an accountant to tell them what they have left to spend.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Yayeet View Post
    That's so wrong in every sense of the word.

    The richest regions in the world are all in Europe (but yes we also have very poor EU countries).

    The average net wealth per individual in Europe is nearly double of that of the US (and you have like what 60% of all the billionaire capital in the world).

    If we look at house ownership, in Europe nearly 60% of the entire population owns their own home, in the US it's not even 40%.

    Europeans are not poorer, they unlike Americans aim to own their own house, their own car, by their mid to late 30's so they tend to save a lot and not overspend, the average american on the other hand has so many credit cards that by the end of the year they need an accountant to tell them what they have left to spend.
    xD I don't even know what to say. You completely missed the point. As ABSOLUTE TERMS disposable income goes down, you value gold less and token more, all there is to it.

    What does home ownership have to do with it when the issue is if you home costs $10,000 vs $500,000.

    Europe is not at all a unified bloc of people, Belgian average net wealth is like what, 150x of average Russian?
    Last edited by Cracked; 2021-04-18 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    xD I don't even know what to say. You completely missed the point. As ABSOLUTE TERMS disposable income goes down, you value gold less and token more, all there is to it.

    What does home ownership have to do with it when the issue is if you home costs $10,000 vs $500,000.

    Europe is not at all a unified bloc of people, Belgian average net wealth is like what, 150x of average Russian?
    Ding ! Ding ! Ding ! We gave a winner. The key number is indeed disposable income. It's been my experience that in
    Western Europe, due to the much higher taxes needed to fund government services, disposable income is less than
    in the US. But Wait ! There's More !

    After you get to disposable income for Western Europe arguably you then have to factor in cost of living. The problem is
    that CoL is all over the place. Once you get away from the big cities that you will see really big differences between the
    US and Western Europe with the CoL being lower in the less urban areas of the US than the W. European counterparts.
    The psychology tends to shift towards a more conservative view of spending as what's left of disposable income gets
    smaller and smaller.
    Last edited by JDL49; 2021-04-19 at 01:41 AM.

  6. #46
    "Supply and Demand" is such an absolutely useless answer in threads such as this.

    People know how supply and demand works. The underlying question is why there's a difference in it between regions. Some did answer that. Kudos to them.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    People know how supply and demand works.
    Obviously they don't. Otherwise threads like these would not get created.

    The question is about why the price is different. The answer is that the balance of supply and demand is different in the two regions. Asking why the balance between supply and demand varies between regions would be beyond what the OP addressed or implied and is more a matter of global economic patterns.

    Very few people I have seen asking about tokens understand that Blizzard does not set the conversion rates and even fewer comprehend that Blizzard makes the same amount of money off token sales whether the conversion is high or low. So again, no, people generically do not understand supply and demand. Not in WoW and not in the broader context of the general population.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebrius View Post
    Because lots of European players are poor and prefer to pay with gold. This increases the demand for tokens and creates scarcity which in turn drives the prices up.

    And 220k is not even high. It was 300k at some point.
    hard to say really,this would kinda require detailed research in what countries in europe has the most players,because depending on that the eu is in no way poorer than usa,in fact overall the eu is doing much better than usa for the averege person,usa has bigger gdp and a much richer 1% but that doesnt mean anything to this discussion

    usa has 65% people living under the poverty line,thats on par or even worse than many of the poorer eu countries

    i honestly find it really sad how the situation in usa has been going downhill in recent years,its middle class is pretty much gone,meanwile places like china(a place many in the west like to meme about and joke about) have it rising greatly

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    hard to say really,this would kinda require detailed research in what countries in europe has the most players,because depending on that the eu is in no way poorer than usa,in fact overall the eu is doing much better than usa for the averege person,usa has bigger gdp and a much richer 1% but that doesnt mean anything to this discussion

    usa has 65% people living under the poverty line,thats on par or even worse than many of the poorer eu countries
    The poverty line in the US is higher than middle income in some of those EU countries. This is a situation where absolute incomes are actually relevant, and they can be as low as <500€/month as average wage. Paying 15€ out of that for a game is a fairly sizeable fraction. Russia is also considered part for the purposes of the game, for that matter.

    In the richer EU countries, you can easily get three times or more that, making the games' cost a smaller issue.

  10. #50
    It's because of the global crisis.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The poverty line in the US is higher than middle income in some of those EU countries. This is a situation where absolute incomes are actually relevant, and they can be as low as <500€/month as average wage. Paying 15€ out of that for a game is a fairly sizeable fraction. Russia is also considered part for the purposes of the game, for that matter.

    In the richer EU countries, you can easily get three times or more that, making the games' cost a smaller issue.
    you also have to take in to account other factors,where i live i dont pay 300$ for basic medical check ups,when i was a student i had free transportation,i didnt have any debts,my internet and phone bill combined are 20$ (looking in to it a bit in usa the same quality internet ALONE can be around 80$+ in usa holy shit)

    the thing is,most of the people under the poverty line live paycheck to paychek,so its not much of a benefit that their poverty line is my medium or above

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    Here you say that Europeans are more reluctant to spend money (which might be the case and I agree with a general feeling of this statement), but in the previous post it was said that "lots of European players are poor", which is, once again, not backed by any data by the OP and really offensive.
    To post some data, back in 2010:
    26% of adults in US were in low income group, and 56% in Middle class, wherea's in Spain it was 24% adults in low income and 64% in middle class.
    If you go further compare:
    26% low income, 56% middle class in US vs. 14%/80% in Denmark, 18%/72% in Germany, 13%/79% in Netherlands and let's throw in 17%/74% in France.

    How are Europeans generally poorer, if bigger percentage of population, statistically, is in fact richer in Europe?
    Hence, the initial argument is false and really offensive.

    EDIT:
    Source of data: Luxembourg’s Cross-National Data Center
    Try not using the richer countries when comparing.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    hard to say really,this would kinda require detailed research in what countries in europe has the most players,because depending on that the eu is in no way poorer than usa,in fact overall the eu is doing much better than usa for the averege person,usa has bigger gdp and a much richer 1% but that doesnt mean anything to this discussion

    usa has 65% people living under the poverty line,thats on par or even worse than many of the poorer eu countries

    i honestly find it really sad how the situation in usa has been going downhill in recent years,its middle class is pretty much gone,meanwile places like china(a place many in the west like to meme about and joke about) have it rising greatly
    Kek posts like this are so grossly misinformed. EU thinking that America is some IRL version of elyisum with Matt Damon.

    Poverty rates were 10.5% before the pandemic (I will be fair and not compare others in the pandemic as well). Take your copium somewhere else.

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...e-poverty.html

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    Kek posts like this are so grossly misinformed. EU thinking that America is some IRL version of elyisum with Matt Damon.

    Poverty rates were 10.5% before the pandemic (I will be fair and not compare others in the pandemic as well). Take your copium somewhere else.

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...e-poverty.html
    deny reality all you want,that copium is so ironic

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Blizzard has no influence on token prices at all. This is nothing more than a wacky conspiracy theory.
    I actually checked that again, because I was 100% sure that during the official introduction they had a paragraph that basically said "Price is driven by demand, however we will implement certain thresholds"
    I looked through all the announcements and could not find it anymore and then I found it again: It was actually only a blue post on the GERMAN forums that did not match the information for all other countries. So yeah, I might actually have been wrong here.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    deny reality all you want,that copium is so ironic
    Oh no no no the Americlap/burger just defeated my argument this goes against my “EU>all” indoctrination protocol, better just parrot his insult to feel superior.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    Oh no no no the Americlap/burger just defeated my argument this goes against my “EU>all” indoctrination protocol, better just parrot his insult to feel superior.
    you make it sounds like im happy usa is doing so bad...im not,its sad and should be adressed,but as long as corrupt capitalism is ruling and politicians are owned by corporations this will never change,its the reason china is pulling ahead every year,in my country corruption is ILLIGAL,in usa its become ''political contribution''

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    you make it sounds like im happy usa is doing so bad...im not,its sad and should be adressed,but as long as corrupt capitalism is ruling and politicians are owned by corporations this will never change,its the reason china is pulling ahead every year,in my country corruption is ILLIGAL,in usa its become ''political contribution''
    Ok I will apologize on that part then. Usually encounter people on the internet that revel in things going wrong here and actively wish for things to be worse for a variety of reasons. Just have grown to have grown to treat everyone at “zero” until they prove otherwise.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    Ok I will apologize on that part then. Usually encounter people on the internet that revel in things going wrong here and actively wish for things to be worse for a variety of reasons. Just have grown to have grown to treat everyone at “zero” until they prove otherwise.
    no need to apologize,i did come off seemingly agresive,its just that i feel so hopeless when i see things going the way they do

  20. #60
    Americans and are friends up north tend to have much more disposable income then Europeans, especially those from the Eastern bloc.

    Also, Tax on goods and luxury items are way higher than they are here in the states, and out CoL tends to be much lower as long as you don't lie in NYC , LA, San Fran, and a few other expensive cities.

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