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  1. #61
    Am I reading this right; you're 1700 rating playing with 2 gladiators wondering why you are facing gladiators that are also boosting someone?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    Am I reading this right; you're 1700 rating playing with 2 gladiators wondering why you are facing gladiators that are also boosting someone?
    I'm not sure you could read it anymore wrong while still getting some words right :'D

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    If you don't think the existence of trinkets that are better than anything you can get from PvE aren't at least somewhat indirectly impacting the number of people queueing at higher MMR then I don't know what to tell you. It's obvious that the surface level reason Blizzard made the change was for the reason you describe here but I can't help but think that it indirectly fixing the problem the OP mentioned isn't a bad thing either.
    Are there a few specs that can make good use of some of the pvp trinkets? Yep. But there's also a few specs whos BiS are trinkets from world quests which max out at 194 ilvl. Both of these examples are outliers. The main point of the change is was so that progression guilds didn't feel compelled to run rated pvp in order to get mythic ilvl gear for mythic raiding.
    Priest Warrior
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  4. #64
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Think about it, you want to play and improve your game and you are constantly facing people who are way above ya, there is no middle ground. Its either beat the best or dont play arena. Does it sound fun or engaging to you?
    Engaging or not, that's how you progress in a competitive environment. And that's not just true for video games.
    You don't get better by facing weaker opponents.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  5. #65
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexh View Post
    This is a huge problem. If you don’t get into the arena scene from day 1 you just get left behind in a hole that’s almost impossible to climb out of. You can forget about your alts too.
    this is sadly reality of arena
    add to it the fotm usual, for example right now priests are generally sh8t and pally dominates healing, if u are a priest healer or druid go f8ck urself better and forget about gladiator
    so u need both start from day 1, and also be lucky that ur class/spec is one of fotm performers
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    You don't get better by facing weaker opponents.
    I mean iI get that... but that is not what I am saying realy.


    But forget it, I just realised the conversation hit the wall realy. I hope OP got what he needs from this thread.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2021-04-20 at 07:19 AM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    this is sadly reality of arena
    add to it the fotm usual, for example right now priests are generally sh8t and pally dominates healing, if u are a priest healer or druid go f8ck urself better and forget about gladiator
    so u need both start from day 1, and also be lucky that ur class/spec is one of fotm performers
    I'd hardly call a class that has the top 2v2 healing spec, as well as as the second best 3v3 healing spec, shit. (source: https://luduslabs.org/sotl) As far as healers go, you shouldn't be having issues unless you play mistweaver.

    Regardless, if you play at 2400 level, you should be able able to get 2400 rating - let's go through the steps!
    1. Get 197 ilvl gear. Right now I'm convinced that the fastest way is to go necrolord and get the full set (all their items have versatility), then reroll to whatever covenant you want if you don't like necrolords. If you really don't want to touch any PvE content, then farm away, but that's just a waste of time and honor that you'll need later on anyway. Get PvP trinkets, though. Also, get your legendary, obviously.
    2. Get 1600 rating. You should be able to get to 1600 rating with those items easily if you play at 2400 level. On the way to 1600 you'll probably buy an item or two, too. If somehow you're stuck at this step, you'll get 207 item level (plus 235 legendary) over time, but I really don't believe you can't breach this one.
    3. Get 1800 rating. You'll get there by just spamming games, since your gear will go over time to 213 ilvl, and then you'll just have to beat 7-13 item level disadvantage by 600+ rating advantage. You probably should be able to get there before you even hit full 213 gear, though.
    4. Get 2100 rating. If you're not able to hit it, just wait until you upgrade your items. Eventually, you'll have 220 gear. With 220 gear you should be able to make up 6 item level disadvantage with your 300+ rating advantage. Plus, despite what you might think, not literally everybody on 2100 rating has full 226+ gear.
    5. Get 2400 rating. At 2100, you can get the best gear besides weapons. There's no excuse if you can't hit 2400 now.
    Alternatively, just get rating on RBGs first, like most of the people that have higher ilvl that their rating in your bracket indicates. Contrary to some people's perception, this is the primary way people are getting gear that seems too high for their rating. RBG rating is inflated, at least compared to 2v2.

    From my experience, less than a tenth (warning: pulling the number out of my ass, that's my perception) of the games below 2100 are actually boosts, defined by meeting the following criteria:
    - players from different servers (players from the same server are much more likely to be playing with a friend who is worse/playing an alt/rerolling, which I don't count as boosts)
    AND any of the following:
    - one player plays obviously better than the other
    - significant rating difference between players
    You could consider significant item level difference too, but if the lower geared player plays at similar level, is that really boosting?

    The item level disparity is actually a problem for everyone who is NOT playing at 2400 level. Then, you don't have that skill difference I mentioned below, so if you're a 1800 player, you're likely going to have problems hitting 1800 if you don't want to do RBGs.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    I am the healer, I play resto druid. I was under the impression resto became viable after 9.0.5, but I'm not hiding behind the fact my class is Op or not. I have a lot to improve, but I expected to be at higher rating at this point

    Also, the fact everyone I play against having Ilvl 220 or higher. Literally. I have 215.

    Yes
    You should have a endless supply of warriors. Even at 1700xp. You could find a ton of 2200 people to play with. They will prolly blame you for everything but if you find a nice one you could push 2k easy. Specially in 2s. The difference from your skill level and 2k is just cool down management and prolly some positioning.

  9. #69
    If you play a 1000 games and are still at 1700 rating than I don't know what else to tell you than that you deserve to be there. Blaming boosters and smurfs ain't gonna change that.
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    Yes, I have major improvements to do on my game, but I should be facing off against players of my rating, not boosts, and not teams with double glad/R1 at these ratings (why???).
    Its frustrating, but good luck at improving yourself. You will get there. You might have more luck in 3s tho. 2s are kinda fucked atm and since the majority is sittibg at that rating you will keep facing stupid combs sadly. Just need to get past that.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    If you play a 1000 games and are still at 1700 rating than I don't know what else to tell you than that you deserve to be there. Blaming boosters and smurfs ain't gonna change that.
    Fair enough dude, If anything, there's a fair amount of people in this thread saying the same thing, so perhaps it's a matter of continuing to improve, and/or try 3v3. THanks for the feedback.

  12. #72
    There's a lot of information missing here and drawing a conclusion, especially a negative one, on limited information is just plain irresponsible and dumb. What class/spec do you play? Do you play with the same players or pug? What comp do you play? Are you relatively new at Pvp or Arena? What's your gear i-level? How often do you see Glad's geared to the teeth playing with 200 i-lvl players? A little bit here and there shouldn't be much of a problem, 50 % of the time or more is a huge problem that is simply beyond your control. And the most important question of all - are you playing with players at or around the same CR? Because if you are playing with people who aren't within 100 pts of your CR or even worse 200pts or lower that would explain a hell of a lot.

    Regardless of how you answer the questions above there is always room for improvement. The best way to improve is to record yourself and watch. Most of the time you'll see yourself making mistakes you weren't even aware of at the time. Occasionally, you'll see frustrating bugs that work both in your favor as well as against you. As you learn what to do and more importantly what not to do, the game will slow down for you because you will no longer take 1-2 seconds to think you'll just do and do with confidence. If you are really up against a lot of Glad/ Noob teams that is unfortunately and most definitely out of your control. In Shadowlands, especially the 1st season, having a 10 i-lvl advantage is pretty huge, anything more is bigger than huge especially if you add skill, team coordination and XP to the equation.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by DuskSP View Post
    You should have a endless supply of warriors. Even at 1700xp. You could find a ton of 2200 people to play with. They will prolly blame you for everything but if you find a nice one you could push 2k easy. Specially in 2s. The difference from your skill level and 2k is just cool down management and prolly some positioning.
    Yeah there's the thing, I really don't like playing with strangers, so I am stuck playing with my rogue buddy.

    I believe you can become 2.4k rating with any comp really, as long as it's played properly, so we'll keep focusing on that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctiphobia View Post
    I'd hardly call a class that has the top 2v2 healing spec, as well as as the second best 3v3 healing spec, shit. (source: https://luduslabs.org/sotl) As far as healers go, you shouldn't be having issues unless you play mistweaver.

    Regardless, if you play at 2400 level, you should be able able to get 2400 rating - let's go through the steps!
    1. Get 197 ilvl gear. Right now I'm convinced that the fastest way is to go necrolord and get the full set (all their items have versatility), then reroll to whatever covenant you want if you don't like necrolords. If you really don't want to touch any PvE content, then farm away, but that's just a waste of time and honor that you'll need later on anyway. Get PvP trinkets, though. Also, get your legendary, obviously.
    2. Get 1600 rating. You should be able to get to 1600 rating with those items easily if you play at 2400 level. On the way to 1600 you'll probably buy an item or two, too. If somehow you're stuck at this step, you'll get 207 item level (plus 235 legendary) over time, but I really don't believe you can't breach this one.
    3. Get 1800 rating. You'll get there by just spamming games, since your gear will go over time to 213 ilvl, and then you'll just have to beat 7-13 item level disadvantage by 600+ rating advantage. You probably should be able to get there before you even hit full 213 gear, though.
    4. Get 2100 rating. If you're not able to hit it, just wait until you upgrade your items. Eventually, you'll have 220 gear. With 220 gear you should be able to make up 6 item level disadvantage with your 300+ rating advantage. Plus, despite what you might think, not literally everybody on 2100 rating has full 226+ gear.
    5. Get 2400 rating. At 2100, you can get the best gear besides weapons. There's no excuse if you can't hit 2400 now.
    Alternatively, just get rating on RBGs first, like most of the people that have higher ilvl that their rating in your bracket indicates. Contrary to some people's perception, this is the primary way people are getting gear that seems too high for their rating. RBG rating is inflated, at least compared to 2v2.

    From my experience, less than a tenth (warning: pulling the number out of my ass, that's my perception) of the games below 2100 are actually boosts, defined by meeting the following criteria:
    - players from different servers (players from the same server are much more likely to be playing with a friend who is worse/playing an alt/rerolling, which I don't count as boosts)
    AND any of the following:
    - one player plays obviously better than the other
    - significant rating difference between players
    You could consider significant item level difference too, but if the lower geared player plays at similar level, is that really boosting?

    The item level disparity is actually a problem for everyone who is NOT playing at 2400 level. Then, you don't have that skill difference I mentioned below, so if you're a 1800 player, you're likely going to have problems hitting 1800 if you don't want to do RBGs.
    I've completed some of your steps, I am necrolord and I started pvp when I was roughly 213 ilvl but with mostly pve gear. I am now at 215 ilvl and experiencing the block i mention above.

    A typical situation in my games with my friend is that we are struggling to get proper setups, so I think we'll work on that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I mean iI get that... but that is not what I am saying realy.


    But forget it, I just realised the conversation hit the wall realy. I hope OP got what he needs from this thread.
    I did, thanks! It's a mix of what I felt, a lot of people are right though and I should just focus on improving.

  14. #74
    I think the major factor here is 90% of the "gladiators" you're facing are playing on alts and half the skill level of their actual gladiator mains. I'm gladiator on all my druids but i play my "gladiator" rogue and cant get higher than 2k in 2s because im average on rogue... account wide gladiator is the confusion here.
    Last edited by Lonedroodx; 2021-04-20 at 07:53 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    I'm not in denial. I'm very much aware I may be at my skill limit.

    What's also true, is I win many matches against double glad players, and occasionally r1 players.

    The question is why am I facing these players, instead of players at my actual skill level / rating?

    I know the answer, it's mostly boosting, but I wanted to launch a conversation on this topic and at the same time try to learn something.

    One thing I am comfortable with, is my skill level. For the better or the worse.

    Thank you for your constructive feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -



    In all honesty, I think you're right. We need to improve our communication. I play with an assassination rogue (the only friend I have that still plays) and we're still working on our rythm (not all my 1000+ matches were with this rogue, most were with a hunter and before that with randoms).

    Still, we do communicate decently well and setup a lot of kills, but we face a lot of players that franchly speaking Ng are not booster, they play insanely better than I do and clearly not meant to be at the rating they are.

    Folks I know what skill is. I know I must improve, but in my 16 years experience at the game, I know how to see a good player and an insane player

    Thanks for the constructive feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You don't need to insult me to try and prove a point. You think I am bad and that's the cause of my issues. Point taken dude, appreciate the feedback.

    Regards

    - - - Updated - - -



    I never said I'm special. I only came here to talk o.O

    Allow me to clarify, the folks I face off against are at similar rating most of the time (except the odd 2k).

    However, when you check their season rating, most show at above 2.4k. I am not exaggerating this. It's easily 50% + with a still large portion above 2k. Only a few matches against people of our actual rating.
    ?? Show me these r1 players farming 1600 people and consistently playing at that rating. Like.. If you've played shadowlands arena for a while, there's no excuse to not have 2100 rating gear and if you missed the bus, then you either need to be skilled to overcome the gear difference (individual skill is not as important as team communication and planning), or go play 3v3 or Rbg where getting high rating is piss easy.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    ?? Show me these r1 players farming 1600 people and consistently playing at that rating. Like.. If you've played shadowlands arena for a while, there's no excuse to not have 2100 rating gear and if you missed the bus, then you either need to be skilled to overcome the gear difference (individual skill is not as important as team communication and planning), or go play 3v3 or Rbg where getting high rating is piss easy.
    Check Pikaboo youtube channel (example, I know he is NA). There are tons of high ranked players playing at lower ratings, for different reasons.

    However, after reading everything in this thread, I'm not hiding from the fact that improving my game and my team game is the only thing we can do under our control. Complaining about the other teams won't change anything.

    So yeah, that's what we'll do!

  17. #77
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctiphobia View Post
    I'd hardly call a class that has the top 2v2 healing spec, as well as as the second best 3v3 healing spec, shit. (source: https://luduslabs.org/sotl) As far as healers go, you shouldn't be having issues unless you play mistweaver
    strangely that 'popular' class almost doesn't exist in arena tournament u can follow on wow official youtube channel, they probably exist due to sheer number not due to actual having strong performance
    while sadly it is 'way late' to know, if u want to know what is currently best (but still u are f8cked to catch up) just follow arena tournaments, mage exist in almost every combo, DK is rare, Mistweave doesn't exist, druid healer is extinct etc
    So I admire how u got ur data, it shows wow total (which is probably more useful than my view of the top 10 best teams in world), but that's like saying horde dominate arena because they are more, while in tournament i saw exactly 1 horde team and rest is pure alliance since WoD era due to how broke OP alliance racials are (heck in WoD arena was purely humans + shaman dwarf healer or nelf druid healer)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  18. #78
    I think playing at the start of each season alleviates a lot of the boosting situation as the boosters themselves are trying to climb, once theyve got their gear theres nothing else for them to do but cash in on smashing plebs with their 233 weapon.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxina View Post
    Wtf. You want "non meta" classes to have more hp then?

    Just gear up, go do RBG if you're stuck in low arena rating. Get 1.8k in RBG, it's pretty much free if you just put in time for it.

    ----

    Either way, blame being stuck on anything you guys want. The truth is that if you're good, you will climb.
    ahhhh i forgot how beloved ferals are in rbg. Also 1,8 would still be undergeared to play on 1,6 with a non meta comp

    just watch the tournaments. jungel vs pally war . both teams same i level and they get destroyed to the point they need to go healer as they cant win even trying to contest the meele or try to kill with cc.

    you dont climb if you are good , you climb if you find high geared mates to carry you / play skill wise far over you current rating / join the meta slaves/ get boosted in rbg for gear

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    Probably... I hope not, I'd love to get 2.4k this season, it's hard right now though
    You sounded pretty reasonable up until this point.

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