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  1. #101
    It is not only gear but also the lack of balance patches. Playing against people who are 10 GS over you is one thing. But if they also play meta and you dont, be prepared to get destroyed.

    Playing Jungle against Any war / pally combo with elite gear while you wear your current rating gear is not even a uphill battle anymore, but trying to run up90 degree. Somehow you can get close to doing it, its frustrating and not worth the effort

  2. #102
    Both removal of arena-teams, and the safety of the new gladiator achievement, together enabled boosting in a way that cause these issues.

    Reintroduce arena-teams and boosting will drop, make gladiatior top 0.5% cut-off on ladder again and it will also help in the same way.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    Both removal of arena-teams, and the safety of the new gladiator achievement, together enabled boosting in a way that cause these issues.

    Reintroduce arena-teams and boosting will drop, make gladiatior top 0.5% cut-off on ladder again and it will also help in the same way.
    Nope, both of these happened few expansions ago but boosting problem only exploded in SL and the reason is simple - one boost to 1800 or 2100 and you are set for the rest of the season, so value from getting even one boost is insane.

    Pay 800k gold, spend two nights in the backseat of 2900 xped multi glads while they get you to duelist in 3s, then for next few months you enjoy yourself farming low rated 2s with your buddy, having beers and laughs over discord, while you smack tryhards with 23 less ilvls on average, eventually getting full 226ilvl set that also happens to be fantastic at pve too.

    Or get frustrated at 1k games at 1700 rating getting nowhere and lie to yourself that this is "the right way". The choice is simple for people with money I think.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    I played 1000+ matches in 2v2 in the last 3 months.

    I won about 50%, and the majority of those had at least a gladiator player in the team. Sometimes 2 gladiators, and every so often we even played against rank 1 players.

    So If my calculations are right, If I am playing against all these guys, I shopuld be at their rating, but turns out, I am at 1600-1700 rating, and even though I am slowly improving my game, I cannot climb out of this.
    hey just wanted to share, this exact thing happened to me at cataclysm, many years back. i was a feral and found a skilled rogue in trade, we climbed from 1500, at 1700 we were fighting arena masters(2200 2s 3s 5s), at 1750+ gladiators, at 1850 rank 1s, at 1934 we gave up, we literally fought braindeadly and jimos(famous pvpers making pvp movies), and then 2x vs hydra(held record for highest ranked world in 2s and 3s, around 3400 rating) and another multi rank 1 warr, and a couple other games vs other r1s. from what you are saying this has gotten slightly worse, you meet r1s at lower rating, but back then and to this day i had the same question as you, why the actual fuck am i, a guy at 1900, playing vs people who are 3k+ exp, at 1800 vs 2700xp etc.

    a solution i have for this problem, is with the use of ai, the game can put you through some test matches, see how good you are, and then matchmaking will que you vs people who are similarly skilled on the class, regardless of rating. ofc that needs systems revamp and a company competent enough to use advanced ai, so will take a few years to be implemented by gaming companies

  5. #105
    While relating heavily, to the OP. I have a question for most of you, since the answers seem mixed. IF I start PVP at the beginning of next season, will I have a better shot of leaving the hell-hole that is currently the 1400-1800 bracket? I am having similar problems as the OP but I am playing WW and DH.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    I played 1000+ matches in 2v2 in the last 3 months.

    I won about 50%, and the majority of those had at least a gladiator player in the team. Sometimes 2 gladiators, and every so often we even played against rank 1 players.

    So If my calculations are right, If I am playing against all these guys, I shopuld be at their rating, but turns out, I am at 1600-1700 rating, and even though I am slowly improving my game, I cannot climb out of this.

    Yes, I have major improvements to do on my game, but I should be facing off against players of my rating, not boosts, and not teams with double glad/R1 at these ratings (why???).

    So this is just a rant to share, maybe some of you out there are having the same problem. Blizz really needs to fix the current problem with boosting on 2v2 (and RBG's).
    I understand your frustration.

    But first of all, most people here are very inexperienced when it comes to PvP but they are very vocal about it. So be very careful of what you read and always take it with a grain of salt (Is that how you say it in english, taking it with a grain of salt?). I mean by that, be skeptical of the credibility in some of the people who write here.

    Even if Tikcol said it in kind of a shitty way... Sometimes, it's not 100% a gear reason, or meta, or system. It's realizing you can improve on some fronts. Remember, a lot of people have been playing this game for 15 years... They have lot's of experience, maybe a lot more than you. Blizzard is really good at making games that are playable by any skill level.

    To me, PvP is the hardest part of WoW because there is so much complexity, sometimes it's hard to see or understand. High level players have ways to play, that are very intricate and different. And even watching some Pro player stream sometimes can be hard to identify why they played that way, or why they made that decision.

    This season has lot's of frustration cause of the gearing system, the gap between gear, etc. And most of the comment are right about that, it's far from being perfect and should be looked at way more by Blizzard.

    I think the best to look at it, is to understand that you're not perfect in how you play, and probably have still a lot to learn. Instead, try to find ways on how to improve your gameplay, your game knowledge of other classes, the strategy, the strenghts of the comp you play and their weaknesses. Some people do the same mistake in arena for years before realizing it is. Like I said, it's very deceiving sometimes and it's easy to blame the system. If you want to improve, learn more and be better, I would suggest looking for Stoopzz TV (Youtube and Twitch), he is one of the PvP community pillar and has recently started a PvP guild of players of all skill level. There are people there, helping each other to improve and be better at the game. Check it out!

    Cheers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    i can't stand stupidity.
    I really find it funny, when someone who can't stand stupidity is stupid himself.

    Your post will 100% get reported cause you called that guy an absolute bag of shit, mods are slow, but you'll probably eventually get banned for that. You can't just outright insult someone like that bluntly. You have to be smart about it, and do it in a way you can get away with it. "Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip".

    Also, if you can't stand stupidity, with 10 years membership and 1722 post, you probably already know how full of stupidity this forum is... It's filled with it. What the hell are you doing here then lol?

    Yet, you are still here, being tilted about people being stupid? Sorry but in this mess, I only see 1 stupid guy and it's you.

    Or maybe that's how you feel better? By bringing people down by insulting them on MMO champion? So not only are you the idiot but you're an asshole as well? Do everyone, and most importantly, yourself, a favor and just stop coming here if you can't stand it.

    What a wonderful person you seem to be (In case you didn't notice, that was sarcasm).
    Last edited by NoXaL99; 2021-05-01 at 02:52 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by NoXaL99 View Post

    Also, if you can't stand stupidity, with 10 years membership and 1722 post, you probably already know how full of stupidity this forum is... It's filled with it. What the hell are you doing here then lol?

    Yet, you are still here, being tilted about people being stupid? Sorry but in this mess, I only see 1 stupid guy and it's you.

    Or maybe that's how you feel better? By bringing people down by insulting them on MMO champion? So not only are you the idiot but you're an asshole as well? Do everyone, and most importantly, yourself, a favor and just stop coming here if you can't stand it.

    What a wonderful person you seem to be (In case you didn't notice, that was sarcasm).
    are you for real champ ? i mean, i saw a lot of stupid people both on these forums and elsewhere but yours is really on another level. you contradict something you just said one sentence later...

    pathetic.

    train more first then come play with daddy.
    war does not determine who is right, only who is left.

  8. #108
    iLVL differences in pvp are more than 1% per item level like PVE , due to stamina amounts which compound the effect higher iLVL gear has against you.

    They should just go back to making all Rated PVPers on the same level. Either WOD PVP Gear (no upgrades based on your title), or Legion Stat Templates

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by NoXaL99 View Post
    I understand your frustration.

    But first of all, most people here are very inexperienced when it comes to PvP but they are very vocal about it. So be very careful of what you read and always take it with a grain of salt (Is that how you say it in english, taking it with a grain of salt?). I mean by that, be skeptical of the credibility in some of the people who write here.

    Even if Tikcol said it in kind of a shitty way... Sometimes, it's not 100% a gear reason, or meta, or system. It's realizing you can improve on some fronts. Remember, a lot of people have been playing this game for 15 years... They have lot's of experience, maybe a lot more than you. Blizzard is really good at making games that are playable by any skill level.

    To me, PvP is the hardest part of WoW because there is so much complexity, sometimes it's hard to see or understand. High level players have ways to play, that are very intricate and different. And even watching some Pro player stream sometimes can be hard to identify why they played that way, or why they made that decision.

    This season has lot's of frustration cause of the gearing system, the gap between gear, etc. And most of the comment are right about that, it's far from being perfect and should be looked at way more by Blizzard.

    I think the best to look at it, is to understand that you're not perfect in how you play, and probably have still a lot to learn. Instead, try to find ways on how to improve your gameplay, your game knowledge of other classes, the strategy, the strenghts of the comp you play and their weaknesses. Some people do the same mistake in arena for years before realizing it is. Like I said, it's very deceiving sometimes and it's easy to blame the system. If you want to improve, learn more and be better, I would suggest looking for Stoopzz TV (Youtube and Twitch), he is one of the PvP community pillar and has recently started a PvP guild of players of all skill level. There are people there, helping each other to improve and be better at the game. Check it out!

    Cheers

    - - - Updated - - -



    I really find it funny, when someone who can't stand stupidity is stupid himself.

    Your post will 100% get reported cause you called that guy an absolute bag of shit, mods are slow, but you'll probably eventually get banned for that. You can't just outright insult someone like that bluntly. You have to be smart about it, and do it in a way you can get away with it. "Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip".

    Also, if you can't stand stupidity, with 10 years membership and 1722 post, you probably already know how full of stupidity this forum is... It's filled with it. What the hell are you doing here then lol?

    Yet, you are still here, being tilted about people being stupid? Sorry but in this mess, I only see 1 stupid guy and it's you.

    Or maybe that's how you feel better? By bringing people down by insulting them on MMO champion? So not only are you the idiot but you're an asshole as well? Do everyone, and most importantly, yourself, a favor and just stop coming here if you can't stand it.

    What a wonderful person you seem to be (In case you didn't notice, that was sarcasm).
    Hey thanks for your response. The first thing that always come to my mind is my need to improve. We have done so as we have finally surpassed the 1800 rating. The problems continue though, i.e., even though we see a lot of potential improvement needed on our game, we also find a lot of people riding gladiator mounts and sporting 226 ilvl gear. So sure, these people can be beat, but it still means we're not really competing against people of our level.

  10. #110
    If you're struggling against 1 high elo player when their boostee normally cant get out of 1500 and who is likely undergeared, I'm not sure how you plan to get over 2k. The number of proper games vs the odd booster you should still climb. I know its annoying losing rating vs them though.

  11. #111
    If you're above 1750, you're in the top 10% of the ladder.
    That aside, this is a very unforgiving meta.

  12. #112
    Pit Lord Dristereau's Avatar
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    I'm sure I posted in this thread or a similar one my experiences at that time, but I agree that the amount of Gladiator's you see around 1900 is beyond what I saw at the end of BFA at 2300. So for context, I've played PVP since Legion, 2000 in 2 Seasons (Warr/DK), 1800+ in BFA every season on most armor types (Warr/DK/Hunter/Rogue/Warlock). The last season of BFA I had Hunter and Priest above 1800, Warlock, Rogue and DH around 2200 and DK/Warr 2400/2392 (QQ, still salty).

    I've played more games this Season (624) than I did last Season and I'm nowhere near my highest rating (2392). I armory a lot of the people I play against, the vast majority are Gladiator Alts, some are boosters. My partner, who I've played with since Legion and got 2400 with Druid and Paladin last Expansion thinks 1900 Shadowlands feels harder than pushing 2400 in BFA and that 1 in 3 matches is a Gladiator/Booster.

    I've come to the conclusion we probably won't hit 2k or higher this Season. I never struggled as hard as I have in Shadowlands to get 1600/1800 and then gain 50/100 free rating because gear is better. The season has been neglected and ruined by boosters, I opened LFG and most of the groups are just boosters (I just opened it now and reported four advertisements to websites).

    The only hope for next season I think is to go full throttle at the start, when people haven't got full gear and are stomping everyone to the ground.
    Dristereau - Axxolentus - Thundereau - Culmination - Nulo - Somniare

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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzyswiftz View Post
    While relating heavily, to the OP. I have a question for most of you, since the answers seem mixed. IF I start PVP at the beginning of next season, will I have a better shot of leaving the hell-hole that is currently the 1400-1800 bracket? I am having similar problems as the OP but I am playing WW and DH.
    Honestly, at the start of expansion it was a bit easier to get to 1800, than right now, but getting to 2100 was harder. Very top of PvP players were rushing to get their ratings early and you would see real pros everywhere above 2k (and I mean proper high end players in entire team, not just boosters + nab).

  14. #114
    I haven't played much in 2 xpacs. It took one week of playing for me to hit 2k with random people with no voice.

    Plenty of glads and random people. None of them were very good besides random carry rogues that were actually glad level in this current day.

    If your stuck at such a low rating its your fault. Sure you might hit an extra 100 points with best gear but skill is the reason your stuck.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    iLVL differences in pvp are more than 1% per item level like PVE , due to stamina amounts which compound the effect higher iLVL gear has against you.

    They should just go back to making all Rated PVPers on the same level. Either WOD PVP Gear (no upgrades based on your title), or Legion Stat Templates
    or you could just get good. It has some effect but anyone with even slightly decent skill will have no issue pushing with bad gear.

  15. #115
    Scarab Lord
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    As has been stated multiple times, there are loads of reasons why this is happening.

    PvE players for one of the first times are forced into doing PvP for PvE upgrades. The PvP gearing system is so good in an expansion where they rolled back gear acquisition, that you would be stupid not to do PvP. Before, you might do in the first couple weeks to get some filler gear and then completely stop.

    Player wise, the culture in gaming is ever so shifting to P2W. More and more people pay for achievements and boosts in this game, and it's growing every single expansion.

    There's zero reason for R1 players to continue to play. They hit R1 early in the season and sit on those characters until the season rolls over. Same for gladiator. If you're a gladiator level player and can't hit the R1 threshold (2800 or whatever it is) and you actively enjoy PvPing, what reason do you have to keep plugging away once you hit your titles? You don't, and there's zero reward for doing so unless you can somehow work your way up 400 more rating. In both of these scenarios you have bored people who actively play with friends, boost, or reroll characters of the same class so they can play the game (or do any of those things I just listed).

    Popular to contrary belief, Shadowlands even though it's grindy is deterministic and you can never truly fall behind. Sure you might fight fully geared people, but you never lose conquest and there's a vendor to pick exactly the gear you want. It's never been this 'easy' to gear in quite awhile, and is one of the primary reasons why you see so many geared people at brackets they're normally not at.

    Cutting back to financial reasons and boost potential, you get a pretty big bang for your buck with how Shadowlands currently operates. Not only is it good in PvE gear and offers some of the best gear in the game, but you can literally pay big bucks for rating from really high end players then sit on that rating (2400, 2100 or 1800, whatever) while being at a relative gear advantage as you plug away in 2s against people, making it a frustrating experience for those who aren't doing the same thing (granted, these people who are being boosted typically aren't good at PvP, or are RBG players who aren't good in arena). Regardless, this makes it more frustrating.

    It's so many things making it this way and it's not just a single thing. Making PvP gear worse in PvE should drive some people away, but some of the core issues still exist. Expansions ago we had a battle group system and R1 players had to be tied in rating to get R1, and gladiator players also got awarded the title after the season concluded (we also had to make groups).

    I think a big problem is it's financially viable to pay people to boost you to a certain bracket, and then farm for the rest of the expansion. The vault requires you to win a game in that bracket to get gear from that bracket for the week, but all in all, all that really does is save you honor grinding. IMO it's really dumb that a one time purchase at a certain bracket allows you to farm gear for the rest of a season. You won't really gain much knowledge of arena or whatever, but you'll still be at a gear advantage in the bracket you belong in, which increasingly frustrates people and causes loads of posts and complaints like we see on the forums from time to time. While it wouldn't solve everything, making people win games at a certain bracket each and every week (even if it's just one) would solve this issue, or at the very least bleed some people dry as the cost would be far more punishing to go back to your dealer every single week.

    I fully realize people with deep pockets would still be able to fund this, but the point is to make it less common to see high ranked players in lower brackets, and less boosting overall, and making it cost too much would absolutely drive a lot of people away.

    I'm fine with iLvL rating thresholds as a system, but I think the gaps as a whole are too large. 1400-1600-1800-2100-2400 is too big a of a gap, and there's nothing tangible beyond 2400 unless you can hit ~2800 for a title. They could eliminate the 1400 bracket entirely and make entry level conquest 7 iLvLs higher than it currently is, all the while having brackets between all of the brackets I listed. So instead of 1600 to 1800 being a 7 iLvL upgrade, you could upgrade your gear again at 1700 for an extra 3 or 4 iLvLs. This would have the advantage of raising the iLvL entry into PvP, and allow you to get upgrades at a more reasonable pace.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by DuskSP View Post
    I haven't played much in 2 xpacs. It took one week of playing for me to hit 2k with random people with no voice.

    Plenty of glads and random people. None of them were very good besides random carry rogues that were actually glad level in this current day.

    If your stuck at such a low rating its your fault. Sure you might hit an extra 100 points with best gear but skill is the reason your stuck.

    - - - Updated - - -



    or you could just get good. It has some effect but anyone with even slightly decent skill will have no issue pushing with bad gear.
    suuuuuure. Likely story 10/10 we believe you. Now pay your blazing boost debt and go to stormwind posing

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by DuskSP View Post
    I haven't played much in 2 xpacs. It took one week of playing for me to hit 2k with random people with no voice.

    Plenty of glads and random people. None of them were very good besides random carry rogues that were actually glad level in this current day.

    If your stuck at such a low rating its your fault. Sure you might hit an extra 100 points with best gear but skill is the reason your stuck.

    - - - Updated - - -



    or you could just get good. It has some effect but anyone with even slightly decent skill will have no issue pushing with bad gear.
    I've been 2400+ rated in both arena/rbg (and have Hero, top .5% in rbg), but anyways...

    It's not really even a "get good" argument. Most competitive PVP games put different players on equal footing. Like in Overwatch you can play any hero you want, you don't need to first get ___ rating before you can use certain heroes.

    Rated PVP is WoW's component of "Competitive/Ranked". Having the best pvp gear gated behind high rating does nothing but create a bigger divide between those who have it & dont --- has nothing to do with skill.

    WOD/Legion while not perfect, at least made the gearing more even. So instead of matches being defined by gear/comp/skill, they were mostly defined by comp/skill since we had largely similar gear.
    Last edited by Frosteye; 2021-05-05 at 09:01 PM.

  18. #118
    If youre stuck at such a low rating its your fault. Sure you might hit an extra 100 points with best gear but skill is the reason your stuck.

    Well, at least you're honest! Thanks for the feedback

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