Ex-players cheering for the game to fail.

[Freedom]

Why are you being sarcastic when there is no need to be. Your entire response is sarcasm. How is that constructive? I think your content is terrible.

Are you new to the internet, ridiculously naive or something? He has over 10,000 posts so it's unlikely you will get him to just "go away". Don't like someone, put them on ignore and move on. You yelled at him for trying to "police" the discussion - how is your trying to "police" his "nastiness" any different exactly? They're just text on a screen, don't like it, don't look at MMO C threads. Or if you find something interesting in a thread, just put up with it.

[Depakote]

Another mmo doesn't have to be a wow killer. The current developers of WoW seem to be a perfectly fine job of killing wow themselves.

[BeepBoo]

It's all the content outside of the raids that is bad and i want that to improve.

At this point I don't even care to see them improve the outside world content. I just want to be absolved from needing to do any thing else besides raiding to be as competitive as possible (gear power-wise) while raiding.

[Thestrawman]

Hey man, thanks for the honest feedback. I really appreciate it. : - )

I'm glad you're a fan of my content. I've been floating the idea of starting a Patreon so that fans like you can contribute to it and help make it easier for me to continue sharing my unique perspective on this website. DM me and I'll give you the deets. Anyway, take it easy out there my guy. I'd hate to see you accidentally mistake blatant sarcasm as serious conjecture.

You'd have to post anything other then blatant sarcasm first.

[Advent]

At this point I don't even care to see them improve the outside world content. I just want to be absolved from needing to do any thing else besides raiding to be as competitive as possible (gear power-wise) while raiding.

While I understand this sentiment, I don't think that's a good thing for the game overall. Not anymore. Any time the game outside of raiding is hamstrung to prevent raid-oriented players from feeling compelled to participate, a not insignificant portion of the players are suddenly left out in the cold. It doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

[Grimlokh]

Speaking of original...

[Freedom]

While I understand this sentiment, I don't think that's a good thing for the game overall. Not anymore. Any time the game outside of raiding is hamstrung to prevent raid-oriented players from feeling compelled to participate, a not insignificant portion of the players are suddenly left out in the cold. It doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

What do you consider hamstrung? BFA and Legion had a ton of shit to do that many raiders hated, and WoD obviously had too little to do other than raid. And MoP had annoying dailies in the first part of the expansion. But WotLK and other periods seen more widely as "good" such as vanilla and TBC didn't have the endless chore list that Legion and BFA did, or early MoP. Clearly in the past there was times that didn't feel bereft of content for casual players and didn't have the homework assignment motherfuckery of BFA and Legion. So what is so desirable about making content that raiders feel compelled to do in some attempt to appease casual players? Or did you think that Legiondaries and corruption were good design...

[Advent]

What do you consider hamstrung? BFA and Legion had a ton of shit to do that many raiders hated, and WoD obviously had too little to do other than raid. And MoP had annoying dailies in the first part of the expansion. But WotLK and other periods seen more widely as "good" such as vanilla and TBC didn't have the endless chore list that Legion and BFA did, or early MoP. Clearly in the past there was times that didn't feel bereft of content for casual players and didn't have the homework assignment motherfuckery of BFA and Legion. So what is so desirable about making content that raiders feel compelled to do in some attempt to appease casual players? Or did you think that Legiondaries and corruption were good design...

I consider citing the early game as a fallacy these days. Simply put, questing and professions aren't enough for non-raiding/non-competitive players anymore. They expect more, better curated content, which neither of those two things are. So Blizzard added things like corruption, legendaries, azerite, and other such things because they likely were extremely well liked by that segment of players. I think back to the pre-Legion days with different eyes, because I was a raider then. But on alts I didn't really have much to do besides dailies or professions if I wasn't in a raid. Trying to go back to that doesn't fly with them anymore, and I now understand why.

[BeepBoo]

Trying to go back to that doesn't fly with them anymore, and I now understand why.

Endless grinds need to die. If they want, add extremely long-term DETERMINISTIC goals to open world if players need something, but let raiders be exempt (i.e. disabling dumb permagrind systems like AP from functioning in raids) or let raiders cap that stuff out way way faster if they do competent raid content.

Time (especially time spent doing monkey-iq chores) is something I don't want to put into the game unless it's actually something I enjoy.

[Al Gorefiend]

If you do your research you'll discover a large group of MMO-C's active bitchfit club are people who have been "veteran players" for years.
You ask them "why do you play this game for a decade+ and yet you constantly tell everyone how shit Blizzard is?"

They usually reply with something along the lines of "because we're fans who don't want the game to die!" or they'll attempt the pseudo-intellectual sarcasm then imply through their words that anyone who disagrees or doesn't understand their point is just a moron.

I think MMO-C of all forums I frequent has the largest collection of depressed screen junkies trying to creatively insult one another.

[Kyanion]

Another mmo doesn't have to be a wow killer. The current developers of WoW seem to be a perfectly fine job of killing wow themselves.

Wow has been dying for 15+ years if you are to believe people on these and other forums. If you don't like it, do something else.

[Advent]

Endless grinds need to die. If they want, add extremely long-term DETERMINISTIC goals to open world if players need something, but let raiders be exempt (i.e. disabling dumb permagrind systems like AP from functioning in raids) or let raiders cap that stuff out way way faster if they do competent raid content.

Time (especially time spent doing monkey-iq chores) is something I don't want to put into the game unless it's actually something I enjoy.

What about those people who currently raid, but also want relevant progression outside of raiding? (I am/was one of those people in WoD) I feel that you lose world cohesiveness if some systems only work in certain areas, and you wind up making things convoluted just to appease the raider audience that doesn't want anything to do with the world they're playing in.

[BeepBoo]

What about those people who currently raid, but also want relevant progression outside of raiding? (I am/was one of those people in WoD) I feel that you lose world cohesiveness if some systems only work in certain areas, and you wind up making things convoluted just to appease the raider audience that doesn't want anything to do with the world they're playing in.

Why do you feel you deserve an advantage just for putting in more time but not having any appreciable skill difference nor doing anything more demanding? Raiding is more a competitive activity than a completion activity, ergo competition should be kept as pure as possible.

[rhorle]

Why do you feel you deserve an advantage just for putting in more time but not having any appreciable skill difference nor doing anything more demanding? Raiding is more a competitive activity than a completion activity, ergo competition should be kept as pure as possible.

Why should raiders get everything else in the game automatically just because they do an instance a few hours a week? You can't ask a person why they feel they deserve more for doing world content when raiders don't deserve more just because they spend hours in an instance trying to defeat a boss. Even more so when you'd qualify your elitism by naturally excludiing LFR from your "Raiders get everything automatically or super easy" system.

Raiding isn't a competitive activity unless you are in the hall of fame caliber. Otherwise it is just a completion activity that competes against the groups arbitrary goal/competition.

[Kaleredar]

People need to find a more constructive and useful output for their energy than hating on a game they have zero financial or creative stake in.

Don't like Blizzard games because of some design direction you feel they took 10 freakin' years ago? Then play another damn game.

It's the same with people bitching about Star Wars and Marvel and all this other fandom nonsense. If the path these multi-million dollar franchises have so clearly set themselves on for such a long time aggrieves you... then go find something else. There's no shortage of fandoms or video games to glom onto. Hell, maybe with all the energy you spend wishing these things to fail you could've made your own damn creative endeavor where you actually have some say in the matter.

[BeepBoo]

Why should raiders get everything else in the game automatically just because they do an instance a few hours a week?

Because in any activity, rewards are metrics-based, not time based. You want better rewards, you do harder stuff, period. Raids are amongst the hardest content in the game, ergo, they deserve the best rewards. Also, I'd be more than fine if they just went with templates in raids and left gear to everything else. I'm not concerned with rewards per-se, just that those rewards are currently required to perform well. Anything that makes that not the case is something I'd be happy to see.

You can't ask a person why they feel they deserve more for doing world content when raiders don't deserve more just because they spend hours in an instance trying to defeat a boss.

Again, it's never about time. Dunking on babies is the equivalent to doing world content. No one rewards anyone for dunking on babies... because it's pathetically easy. You could spend your entire life dunking on babies and you'd never get what an NBA player gets from a single game.

Even more so when you'd qualify your elitism by naturally excludiing LFR from your "Raiders get everything automatically or super easy" system.

Like I said, it's all about the difficulty of content you do if you're talking proper reward power structure.

Raiding isn't a competitive activity unless you are in the hall of fame caliber. Otherwise it is just a completion activity that competes against the groups arbitrary goal/competition.

Based on the number of logs people upload, the elitism so prevalent in the system, etc... I disagree.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't like Blizzard games because of some design direction you feel they took 10 freakin' years ago? Then play another damn game.

1) there are no viable alternatives to redirect my raid desires to. All the alternatives suck in comparison. The raids in wow aren't the problem, it's all the rest of the game.
2) it's REALLY easy to do both (play other games and hate). I have plenty of free time to dedicate towards negative energy.

[Kaleredar]

1) there are no viable alternatives to redirect my raid desires to. All the alternatives suck in comparison. The raids in wow aren't the problem, it's all the rest of the game.
2) it's REALLY easy to do both (play other games and hate). I have plenty of free time to dedicate towards negative energy.

Then you're ultimately just spamming hatred into the void. Like I said, you've no financial or creative stake in the game's direction. They don't have a reason to give a single damn what some person thinks. Especially if that person, like some of the people here are, I suspect, players that haven't played for many, many years.

[Heeresman]

"Ex-players"

What's even funnier is there's current players cheering along too.

Want proof of that?

Go to mmo-champ dot com/threads and pull out your popcorn and cans of coke and enjoy the side show...

[BeepBoo]

Then you're ultimately just spamming hatred into the void.

Nothing wrong with that. It spurs discussion on the internet (meaning it's not just to the void) AND it's therapeutic to vent. Sounds win/win to me.

Like I said, you've no financial or creative stake in the game's direction. They don't have a reason to give a single damn what some person thinks. Especially if that person, like some of the people here are, I suspect, players that haven't played for many, many years.

You seem to think I'm under some illusion they'll change the game. I'm just here to say "i'll be happy when the game dies because I'm spiteful" and I see nothing wrong with people having and voicing those thoughts

[rhorle]

Based on the number of logs people upload, the elitism so prevalent in the system, etc... I disagree.

Simply defeating a raid encounter is "dunking on babies" compared to having the top parse. You pretty much make your entire argument about raiders deserving rewards from the rest of the game automatically or easily with a "cap". Being a raider and defeating a boss isn't the competition if logs, parses, and whatever other player created goal is.

You get the best rewards from raiding since it still offers the best gear. The best rewards is not the same as all the rewards. And of course you are concerned with rewards when your entire previous argument was that Raiders should get everything else for free simply because they do the hardest content in the game. If it wasn't about the rewards you wouldn't have any problem not getting something for not doing that part of the content. This is where these elitist raider arguments always break down.

- - - Updated - - -

You seem to think I'm under some illusion they'll change the game. I'm just here to say "i'll be happy when the game dies because I'm spiteful" and I see nothing wrong with people having and voicing those thoughts

So why not quit? It is the same as the game dying and you admit you'll be happier when it is no longer a part of your life. And yet you play, hate, rage, and whatever else you want to call it. Hating just to hate is never a good thing.