Ex-players cheering for the game to fail.

[rhorle]

Do you not understand that to modern ActiBlizz systems are content? Systems are cheaper to produce and keep people playing longer than content, that is the sad truth.

Content is content. A system is just as much content as anything else a game offers.

[Soon-TM]

I imagine if there's going to be another big MMO, it will probably be more distinct from WoW than most other MMOs.

Indeed. The way I see it, many of the so-called "WoW killers" failed because they were basically WoW copycats, with none of the funding or the backing of a famous IP (except SWTOR, which was horribly mishandled) at the beginning, such as what WoW enjoyed after the massive success of WC3.

Notice how the current competition of WoW consists of games with 1) well-known IPs and 2) don't try to copy WoW, but rather try to do their own thing - which in turn results in communities with a very different mind to WoW's.

[Zyky]

Fail is fail. You may try to virtue signal that you are really the saviors to everything that is wrong with Blizzard but you are still saying you are cheering for the game to be killed and fail.

See you still don't understand the major difference between cheering for the game to fail and cheering that it is failing; it's a very big difference between the two. And if you're too ignorant to realize there is a difference, I'm not going to sit here and explain it to someone with a long history of being white knight to a garbage company.

Just because you think it is a deserving death because of dev's doing stupid things still doesn't change you are cheering for it to fail by your own words.

Clearly the majority of the playerbase agrees that the game is garbage, it's very clear that the playerbase left playing is small. 80% of Classic servers are near dead, retail is struggling with cross realm gameplay as seen with there being minimal activity in the games group finder. I know you're just going to white knight some fictitious idea out of your head and I'm sure you actually believe the game is all fine and healthy, but the reality is that it isn't.

- - - Updated - - -

Content is content. A system is just as much content as anything else a game offers.

See this kind of ignorance is what I'm talking about. A system is not content, valor is not content, the content is M+ and valor is the systematic reward.

[Th3Scourge]

I'm an active player and I wish for the game to fail. The current format is the worst iteration of the game. Failure means a significant drop in revenue for Acti-Blizzard, which is the only thing they respond to

[Cosmic Janitor]

I have never seen "ex-WoW players" who are "cheering" for WoW to fail. On the contrary: they hope it would get better, because they loved it once and would like to come back again.

There definitely are people that like to see it fail, because they realize that the number of players are not infinite and wow is binding alot of them, making it even more difficult for other games to rise (the sunk cost fallacy is enormous with MMO gamers). Also wow is very much stuck in it's ways, for better or worse. Some hope that some innovation would follow should they fail. I'm pretty sure there are still the odd ones out there that would love to see it die, so they can finally have a chance to get warcraft 4 - as unlikely as that is. You can find all of that on this this forum alone, let alone the plethora of unvoiced opinions out there.

That being said, people coming to complain on the forums always seemed fairly reasonable to me. As you say many of them just want the game to improve. What strikes me as odd are the people that will defend anything and spend every waking moment complaining about other people not liking the game as much as they do, yet they clearly don't use all this time to actually play it themselves.

[rhorle]

See you still don't understand the major difference between cheering for the game to fail and cheering that it is failing; it's a very big difference between the two. And if you're too ignorant to realize there is a difference, I'm not going to sit here and explain it to someone with a long history of being white knight to a garbage company.

There really is no difference. You are creating one so you don't seem like a terrible person in your mind but in the end you are still happy at failure and the game being killed off. Those are using your own words. There is a reason after all why you are choosing to not explain your point and turn to insults. Because you have nothing and are the just a hate knight or whatever the word is for people that go around being garbage and toxic.

Clearly the majority of the playerbase agrees that the game is garbage, it's very clear that the playerbase left playing is small.

And yet you have no way of knowing that because Blizzard doesn't release numbers. This is why you are being toxic because you invent whatever facts you need to in order to make your point of view superior. There is not minimal activity in the group finder nor has the game struggled with cross realm game play. How do you even know that if you are not subscribed? And if you are subscribed why are you paying a garbage company and playing a game that you want to fail? Sorry you want the devs to fail so the game dies and magically gets reborn from the ashes with everything you want. Weird right? But I'm somehow bad and a white knight just because I call you out on your delusions.

See this kind of ignorance is what I'm talking about. A system is not content, valor is not content, the content is M+ and valor is the systematic reward.

It is still content. A system like Valor is still adding content to the game. I'm not even sure you know what systematic means because pretty much everything in WoW is systematic. The only ignorance here is when people create arbitray rules for what is and is not content. Systems of a game are content just as much a model, quest, or anything else. The same type of content? Nope. But it still is.

The proof of your ignorance and aribraty rules is in your response calling M+ content. When M+ is a system that scales and adds affixes. The content is 90% the same as Heroic and 100% the same as Mythic. But one is content and one is a system just so you can be toxic by insulting a post, company, and whatever else you feel the need to rage about. Weird right?

[Asrialol]

I'm an active player and I wish for the game to fail. The current format is the worst iteration of the game. Failure means a significant drop in revenue for Acti-Blizzard, which is the only thing they respond to

You think that if retail wow fails, that's a significant drop in revenue for Activision Blizzard? Interesting. Based off of what, exactly?
Blizzard Entertainment stands for 24% of the revenue of Activision Blizzard 2020. Then you have the difference of net bookings, in-game net bookings, and so on (subscriptions, in-game shop / microtransactions, etc). I assume you don't know how much revenue each of this has brought in, in 2020.

Kinda seems like you don't know what you're talking about here, which is fine - most people here dont.

If the game "fails" (you haven't really stated what would be considered a failure here, drop in subs? drop in microtransactions? what are we talking about?) it'll still hold a active and loyal playerbase which would most likely keep the game afloat, considering how small a drop WoW alone is. What do you think happens when the game "fails"? They'll drop the amount of people working on it, reducing costs - easy fix. Or they could pump more money into it and hope for the best. Which is the most logical?

There's this game called Blade and Souls which has roughly 10 000 active players per month, last time I checked outside of Asia. That game is getting its graphics engine upgraded from UE3 to UE4 this year. Why? Because some of the players are considered "whales", they spend so much money on the ingame shop that it's worth upgrading the entire game engine for those players. Granted there are more players in Asia who'm the upgraded engine was made for, but the EU/US publisher decided to do the same with their version, which by no means is no small task. Not to mention the game still gets new classes and specs added.

You think WoW will fail, how, exactly?

- - - Updated - - -

Clearly the majority of the playerbase agrees that the game is garbage, it's very clear that the playerbase left playing is small. 80% of Classic servers are near dead, retail is struggling with cross realm gameplay as seen with there being minimal activity in the games group finder. I know you're just going to white knight some fictitious idea out of your head and I'm sure you actually believe the game is all fine and healthy, but the reality is that it isn't.

The majority of the playerbase is playing the game and doesn't spend their time whining on forums. Where are you getting your metrics from? How did you come to the conclusion that the majority of the playerbase thinks the game is garbage?

Oh boy, can't wait for the well thought of, and well documented answer you'll give to this post, if any.

[Kallisto]

Nobody is cheering for the game to fail, we're cheering that the game -is- failing which will mean either the developers start to realize the playerbase knows what they want and start listening or they developers will continue to double down and continue to kill their own game.

The player base doesn't know what it wants. It thinks, it, dies, but when it gets it they become up in arms about it existing.

[T-34]

TWoW just can't compete with the shine of other GaaS these days along with heavy hitters like FF14 and ESO.

Could you be so kind to link me your data that shows how WoWs revenue/player-base is shrinking compared to ESO and FF14?

[Alkizon]

I'm in the category of "pissed off by shit design; I want them to fix said design because I'd like the game to be good".

I'm also perhaps see myself in this category, but problem is that there is certain area that can knock me out of state of balance, causing more expressive criticism/pretensions. Now this is rarely touched upon, but this continues to be the place, that evokes in me a very specific emotional perception of what is happening...

However, when it comes to general issues, first of all, discussed idea/mechanics is passed through the filter of requirements/design rules: passes without problems - good, gets stuck - bad; it helps to be more detached, to abstract from personal emotional fluctuations.

[rrayy]

the massive lose of subs a few months after the expac comes out starting in wod. people only unsub when they don't have content. this means people don't think there is enough meaningful content outside of end game. notice how vanilla, tbc, wrath, and cata (to an extent. cata started the whole nerfing entire raid tiers) didn't lose massive amounts of players in a short time frame? if blizz can't even keep a steady amount of players, the game isn't thriving.

Citation please. Show me proof of these massive sub losses.

[ippollite]

OP has never reponded to this thread. This thread is a troll thread. I know you all know this. I know im pointing out the obvious. But this is pure trash.

[BeepBoo]

The player base doesn't know what it wants. It thinks, it, dies, but when it gets it they become up in arms about it existing.

That's either because "the player base" isn't homogenized and you're seeing outrage from a different group of people from the ones who wanted the change... or because blizzard has a propensity to corrupt-a-wish, acting like a sly genie.

Example:
"Sure! We'll give you flying for all current zones!"
*releases new zone immediately after flying is earned*
"What do you mean? This is a new zone! Of course you can't fly here!"

Sometimes they know damn well what players want and just flat don't want to give it to them, so they find some busted way to simultaneously give it to them AND also keep whatever bullshit they didn't want to remove or change.

[ippollite]

I also believe the same. But he is kinda right about it. I started hating Blizzard more and more by each year. Specially since BFA and Shadowlands.

I didnt. Im super mad at blizz right now because i can even see a path through this this... but im a player, not an investor (i WAS an investor). But i didnt at any point believe they were trying to screw me personally. He's trolling.

[aceperson]

Citation please. Show me proof of these massive sub losses.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/superda...n-phase-321234

"World of Warcraft player numbers fell back to normal levels as the excitement around November’s Shadowlands expansion subsided. From November to January, revenue fell by 61% and user numbers declined by 41% (these figures do not include China)."

and keep in mind, this was BEFORE we knew anything about the massive wait for 9.1.

[T-34]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/superda...n-phase-321234

"World of Warcraft player numbers fell back to normal levels as the excitement around November’s Shadowlands expansion subsided. From November to January, revenue fell by 61% and user numbers declined by 41% (these figures do not include China)."

and keep in mind, this was BEFORE we knew anything about the massive wait for 9.1.

The claim was that older expansions did not lose subs so fast as SL has done.

[rrayy]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/superda...n-phase-321234

"World of Warcraft player numbers fell back to normal levels as the excitement around November’s Shadowlands expansion subsided. From November to January, revenue fell by 61% and user numbers declined by 41% (these figures do not include China)."

and keep in mind, this was BEFORE we knew anything about the massive wait for 9.1.

They werne't talking bout subs there. They were talking about MAU's.So, not proof of sub loss.

[aceperson]

The claim was that older expansions did not lose subs so fast as SL has done.

so... what i said is true then... a massive amount of sub losses... what is your point?

- - - Updated - - -

They werne't talking bout subs there. They were talking about MAU's.So, not proof of sub loss.

why you lie? no where was monthly active users mentioned... use FACTS to convince me.

[Unholyground]

All that I know is I don't play non pserver WoW anymore because Activision-Blizzard decided not to take a buying power hit to make the prices fair in countries where the exchange rate is getting out of hand like most companies generally do, now they just charge the exact exchanged amount for game time and that is going to hurt them, I know 6 people who quit and one of the biggest complaints is the monthly cost vs the value you get which is only Classic and Retail, which don't get content updates hardly at all and they keep pushing timelines so what are you paying for? The servers are pretty much all automated now and need little to no human intervention.

My suggestion is Blizzard makes every game in the b.net launcher available at the WoW sub fee or drop it altogether. They need to add far more value to their sub now or they will fade away, and 15 versions of WoW won't cut it with no way to pay for each version individually.

Until that happens pservers for me YARRRR HARRR HARRRR.

[T-34]

so... what i said is true then... a massive amount of sub losses... what is your point?

The claim from one person in this thread was that SL has lost subscribers faster after launch than older expansions.
You never gave data that gave us the opportunity to compare the speed which SL has lost subscribers after launch compared to older expansions.

And from your own quote: "World of Warcraft player numbers fell back to normal levels..." So that can interpreted as this is a normal occurrence - a big spike at launch and then a drop. Nowhere in your quote is it suggested that the fall in subscribers is exceptional.

I would praise you for finding some data that can shed a light on this, but we still lack data so we can compare the relative loss of subscribers after the launch of with other expansions.

Added: Just to make it clear: I am in no way disputing that SL has lost subscribers after launch. But the question still remains: Is the relative drop something exceptional or not? That we don't have data on.