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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post

    You know, I completely agree with this and it's kind of sad. A lot of the "customization" WoW has just feels like I'm always forced to play 75% of a class.

    The talent rows just aren't well-designed and it feels like you have to look at ten different things to just know how to effectively play your class, and often I really enjoy a setup I used while leveling only to find it's complete garbage at 60 for some reason or another, leading me to feel like I'm playing something completely different from what I leveled as.
    The talent system was supposed to provide freedom and options but you either play in a way that you don't enjoy or you gimp yourself, choose wisely.
    Super fun.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    The talent system was supposed to provide freedom and options but you either play in a way that you don't enjoy or you gimp yourself, choose wisely.
    Super fun.
    As with any numerical variable you can either choose right or wrong.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    The talent system was supposed to provide freedom and options but you either play in a way that you don't enjoy or you gimp yourself, choose wisely.
    Super fun.
    If you are very, very lucky your spec has two or more 'viable' (which doesn't mean 'can clear the content', but rather 'does top DPS') specs and the playerbase at large is actually aware of this. All to often there are actually 2+ builds that parse close enough to each other that player variation and preference determines which is better for a given player, yet the playerbase decides that one of them is the 'correct' one, and that is that.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    If you are very, very lucky your spec has two or more 'viable' (which doesn't mean 'can clear the content', but rather 'does top DPS') specs and the playerbase at large is actually aware of this. All to often there are actually 2+ builds that parse close enough to each other that player variation and preference determines which is better for a given player, yet the playerbase decides that one of them is the 'correct' one, and that is that.
    Yeah and sure you CAN pick whatever you want but as soon as you get into premade content other players are going to start questioning your decisions. It doesn't matter if you perform better with the sub optimal choice since you are expected to perform perfect with the optimal choice. I actually like a lot of the base classes of WoW but the talent system ruins most of them.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    True about the seasonal event. New story and new rewards so there really is a point to doing them each year. Shame Halloween was cancelled last year. Hopefully it will come back.

    My fav is that we have a lore-friendly anniversary for the game's release with Rising.
    Im sure Halloween will be back this year. Right around that time they were still having issues with the office changes from covid. Im sure the other holidays they already had stuff done for them well in advance but when halloween came around it was either work on patch or holiday. They choose patch which Im perfectly fine with, and lets admit when Xmas came around it was a bit weaker then other years.

    I like Rising but I was always into the mid summer event in Costa de-soul. As frustrating as it can be I do like that jumping puzzle tower. Hopefully that comes back.

  6. #226
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rizyukaizen View Post

    I like Rising but I was always into the mid summer event in Costa de-soul. As frustrating as it can be I do like that jumping puzzle tower. Hopefully that comes back.
    Ahh the FATE against the shark man was cool. Seasonal events are always cool because they are never always the same. There is always something new to look forward to.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    In WoW, the main storyline is tucked away in the raids. In order to see the latest segment of the story, you have to do the latest raid. In order to do the latest raid, you need to meet the really tall ilevel requirement to get in.
    It's weird that you bring that up, since LFR exists.

    If anything, it's XIV that gates story behind trials and odd item level requirements that kinda come out of nowhere if you're catching up on the MSQ. It's still not bad, but it's just strange to make the comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    The talent system was supposed to provide freedom and options but you either play in a way that you don't enjoy or you gimp yourself, choose wisely.
    Super fun.
    People have been arguing about "customization" in MMOs since before I can remember, which is a really long time now.

    The fact is that the genre just isn't strongly built around the concept. Partly because of balance and partly because of class identify and such.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's weird that you bring that up, since LFR exists.

    If anything, it's XIV that gates story behind trials and odd item level requirements that kinda come out of nowhere if you're catching up on the MSQ. It's still not bad, but it's just strange to make the comparison.
    I think the argument being made is the bosses and cutscenes gated behind Heroic/Mythic difficulty, i.e. Ra-Den, Cho'gall, and such.

    I've done a few of the raids that come up in the MSQ and I've gathered that they are essentially the LFR versions of those raids, correct?

    So, I suppose the argument about raids is both supported and unsupported, depending on the way you look at it.

    I've not gotten to XIV endgame yet, so I really can't say how raid-centric it is. But so far, for me, the raids have been more "oh, that was neat" than "ok, I'm gonna be doing this every week for the next few months". But, again, I haven't reached endgame so it could totally be like that for all I know.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    There has never been a single dungeon in WoW where I wasn't immediately kicked from the group when I said I was new.
    then you must be in absolute terrible gear or terrible battlegroup. ive been in groups with all mythic raiders and 1 brand new tank not from guild and we never kicked the tank we just taught him. so maybe your battlergoup sucks. try making your own groups and say for completion in title

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Pretty much my entire experience with XIV, if you ask for help people will be helpful. I believe the positive community is fostered by SE's zero tolerance on harassment and trolling. You fuck with people, you get banned. In WoW, Blizz won't interfere with problems in harassment unless you're being straight up doxxed.



    Yep, there's easily over a thousand hours of casual content to collect mounts, pets, triple triad cards, glamours, titles, and everything else you can think of. FFXIV has a huge focus on 'fun, easy stuff' that feels good to do even if it doesn't contribute directly to player power.



    One of the reasons I quit WoW. I had been dissatisfied for awhile, but one day I logged in and thought, "Why am I even doing this?" and the answer wasn't that it was fun, but I felt I was being forced to do it. Even if my doing these chores weren't necessary, it often felt like it was either the only thing to do or that I needed to do it. The next few days after that, I stopped doing my chores, and suddenly realized I wasn't doing ANYTHING. Without chores, WoW just had nothing to offer me.



    One big thing I like about FFXIV is that no matter what I do, I feel like I'm progressing towards something. As others have pointed out, old content is incentivized by giving rewards towards various things for doing them. Want to work on relic weapons for ARR, HW, or Shadowbringers? Most old content is relevant in working on those. Want to level up a different class? Roulettes throw you into old content that rewards you with experience.


    And the thing I like the most is that crafting is both complex and rewarding AND relevant. You can make gear that will bump you right into current content. It may not be best in slot but it's the EASIEST way by far to boost yourself into raid-ready gear. I've made over 500m gil in my time in FFXIV, and very few people have that much money. I'm sure a bunch of chads will chime in that they have over 1b gil, but they're by far the vast exception.

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    When basically everyone who switches to FFXIV claims the community is way friendlier, it gains credence. It might be "Subjective" but when it's subjective for everyone, well...



    It demands numerous hours of play from you to feel like you're relevant. You can play WoW casually, but try doing WoW casually. Don't raid. Don't PvP. Don't go hard on anything. How rewarding does that feel? FFXIV nurtures its casual content and gives more every patch. WoW implements some casual progression system then scraps it the next expansion. About the only thing WoW actually keeps from patch to patch is mount and pet farming.



    The only "chores" there are in FFXIV, things you feel compelled to do daily/weekly is tomestone capping. A lot of the time I don't even realize I'm capping my tomestones because I'm doing something fun that I like, and suddenly realize I've capped my tomestones for the week.

    "FFXIV makes you want to waste your time. WoW just wastes your time."

    Asmongold and Bellular had the right idea there. Both games are basically time wasters, but at least FFXIV makes it fun. If you're having fun with WoW, good for you. Most people aren't. I mod for two FFXIV streamers. Both have had hundreds more viewers the last couple of weeks than they ever have. People are fleeing from WoW in droves to FFXIV. Perhaps instead of attempting to convince people that WoW is perfectly fine, you should see that they aren't, and nothing you will say can change how they feel?
    people are leaving because we've had a content drought so yeah its quite normal for people to leave but like always when a new patch comes out numbers blow up. gotta remember that cali has higher restrictions in place than japan atm so yeah it is causing development issues

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    then you must be in absolute terrible gear or terrible battlegroup. ive been in groups with all mythic raiders and 1 brand new tank not from guild and we never kicked the tank we just taught him. so maybe your battlergoup sucks. try making your own groups and say for completion in title

    - - - Updated - - -



    people are leaving because we've had a content drought so yeah its quite normal for people to leave but like always when a new patch comes out numbers blow up. gotta remember that cali has higher restrictions in place than japan atm so yeah it is causing development issues
    You groups have been an exception then. Because there are more people in this thread agreeing that people in WoW kick people for the smallest reasons than people saying it doesn't happen.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You groups have been an exception then. Because there are more people in this thread agreeing that people in WoW kick people for the smallest reasons than people saying it doesn't happen.
    Or don't believe what people tell you. It's quite common to see people claiming that FFXIV is just as toxic as WoW or more ridiculously that WoW isn't at all toxic. People lie to prevent their game from losing players.

    We're starting to see some biased "reviews" of FFXIV pop up from hardcore WoW content creators where they're obviously trying to keep their community away from the game.
    Last edited by Echo of Soul; 2021-06-15 at 08:49 PM.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Or don't believe what people tell you. It's quite common to see people claiming that FFXIV is just as toxic as WoW or more ridiculously that WoW isn't at all toxic. People lie to prevent their game from losing players.

    We're starting to see some biased "reviews" of FFXIV pop up from hardcore WoW content creators where they're obviously trying to keep their community away from the game.
    Yup. So true. Hardcore WoW players are so salty that WoW is dying that they're trying to make FFXIV sound worse in some hopes more people will come back to WoW. Thankfully, most people have a mind of their own and don't believe them.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I agree though WoW did spoil me when it came to roleplaying because of the RP profile addons like TRP. You can't use addons with FFXIV.
    I mean you can, just don't parade the fact that you're using them... provided of course that what you're looking for exists yet.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    I mean you can, just don't parade the fact that you're using them... provided of course that what you're looking for exists yet.
    The only options I've seen from people I know that RP is for like....profiles put into a certain website. It's not that big of a deal but it's one more step that WoW doesn't have.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I've done a few of the raids that come up in the MSQ and I've gathered that they are essentially the LFR versions of those raids, correct?

    I've not gotten to XIV endgame yet, so I really can't say how raid-centric it is. But so far, for me, the raids have been more "oh, that was neat" than "ok, I'm gonna be doing this every week for the next few months". But, again, I haven't reached endgame so it could totally be like that for all I know.
    The MSQ trials do tend to be LFR-level, but occasionally the requirements to access them are jarring for a new or returning player.

    Take, for example, my old pet peeve: Tsukuyomi.

    Tsukuyomi is a MSQ trial, so you have to do it to progress. But it requires 335 item level to access. When you get there, you're probably 300 item level or so, because that's what the last MSQ dungeon required, and if you got a drop or two, those drops were 315 so you got a little bump. But even fully farming that dungeon didn't get you close to 335.

    So what drops 335? Well, Swallow's Compass - which is a side quest dungeon, so you don't get there through the MSQ - drops 345. Good news, right? Well, no. It requires 330 to access.

    So how do you get from 300-315 to 335 doing the story? Well...you just don't. The game assumes that you had been subbed all through 4.1 and 4.2 so you were farming tomestones and whatever else. But what if you weren't? Well, your MSQ grinds to a halt and you have to go farm gear.

    Was it a particularly large wall? No, not really. But it was strange that you couldn't get there just doing the quests and dungeons that came before.
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2021-06-15 at 10:44 PM.

  16. #236
    The more i keep playing with my alt, the more i notice how fucking much blizz dropped the ball with timewalking and dungeons in general, as someone who absolutely despised dungeons, thanks to the pre-order earring and the road to 70 buff im just spamming dungeons non-stop between questing and fates (bought the MSQ skip because im NOT doing it again lulz) and im having fun doing it, this actually makes me want to make even more alts to try the different races rather than having all jobs on 1 class

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Narzok View Post
    ff14 does have mandatory raiding though.
    if you want to continue the MSQ, you are required to beat certain trials.
    if you call bosses dieing in 40-50 seconds mandatory, like the arr alliance raids, mandatory, sure?

    Most other trials can be 2-3 manned, I think the hardest mandatory bosses are probably the warring triad



    That said, how the game teaches you mechanics through indicators and class specific quests is pure genius, I think the only raid I regularly wipe in roulette is A9

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Take, for example, my old pet peeve: Tsukuyomi.
    I'm assuming I never got to that, my first character is only level 59, but that sounds like a pretty blatant oversight. I'll have to watch out for it.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I'm assuming I never got to that, my first character is only level 59, but that sounds like a pretty blatant oversight. I'll have to watch out for it.
    You don't have to watch out, every expansion before current is finish the X.0 story, buy BiS gear with Poetics, forget about ilvl requirements for all the patch content. It only gets weird when you get to endgame.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  20. #240
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    people are leaving because we've had a content drought so yeah its quite normal for people to leave but like always when a new patch comes out numbers blow up. gotta remember that cali has higher restrictions in place than japan atm so yeah it is causing development issues
    Yes, WoW has always experienced boom and bust. But people are staying for less time during the booms and the busts are growing more serious, losing more people than ever. Some people will come back for 9.1, but a lot have said they're done with WoW and not coming back, and FFXIV is their game now. Others will play 9.1 for a month, get tired, and go back to FFXIV. That's not a healthy way to maintain a game.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

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