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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    If you're doing the "Deep Dungeons" for xp then Floors 51-60 of PotD and Floors 21-30 of HoH are the best xp/hour using that option. No one is saying that this option is the fastest available or that it's "fast" just that spamming 51-60 or 21-30 give you the best xp/hour rate within the Deep Dungeon system.
    Correct. The original claim though was something along the lines of it being the only way to play deep dungeon which obviously is absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    let's not sell ff14 as if it's a fast paced MUD typing contest, or an fps level of twitch combat, or even a DOTA level of timing and skill.
    I don't think that anyone is trying to sell it as any of those things. More complex than WoW's combat sure even though I'm pretty sure that the APM is slightly lower without checking sources.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Correct. The original claim though was something along the lines of it being the only way to play deep dungeon which obviously is absurd.
    I'm not sure you and I are looking at the same post then, because the one being quoted initially was specifically talking about leveling speed, the amount of xp needed to level, how long a typical PotD run took and how much xp each run was giving. Not about PotD in general.

    Here's the quote:
    The leveling speed is also pretty bad. I'm at 57 and I need 2,995,200 experience to level to 58. they want us to go out in the world and do fates, but a fate my level gives 47,520. that's a fraction of what I need. I'd have to do over 60 fates to level that one time. Then you have Palace of the Dead which people swear up and down is the fastest way to level and it gives me a half a level's worth of experience regardless of how far into it I go and a run takes about 20 minutes.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    idk.. to me FF14 is slower and simpler combat as a lvl 71ish dragoon vs lvl 60 ret pally my dragoon is much more simple and easier to learn unless something comes into play later. I also feel with the longer GCD and in some cases animations, I have more time to think between attacks vs WoW button smash. could be that just comparing 2 classes is not indicative to the game overall though idk.
    I cant speak for dragoon as I have not played it, but personally I found most classes that I have played in FF14 got started pretty early. Sure, the GCD is longer but you have so many off-GCD abilities that even with the longer GCD, you are using more skills.

  4. #484
    I am level 49 PLD now and I am loving it. Next weekend a buddy of mine is gonna start in FF14 as well. Can I switch my job to a level 1 and play with him and help him in his MSQ and level alongside him? I hope that works. Anyone know?

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    I am level 49 PLD now and I am loving it. Next weekend a buddy of mine is gonna start in FF14 as well. Can I switch my job to a level 1 and play with him and help him in his MSQ and level alongside him? I hope that works. Anyone know?
    FFXIV isn't co-op friendly for first timers. Yes you can technically play with him as he is going through the MSQ, but it's only really practical to play with a new player going through the MSQ when they are doing dungeons, and the first one doesn't unlock until level 15. Otherwise, you're just going to be waiting around while he effectively plays a singleplayer JRPG: running and talking to NPCs, watching cutscenes, doing solo duties, etc. If you want to play with him before that, then you can only really screw around doing FATEs or hunting log, but I'd imagine it'd be a miserable experience for the new guy because he will have hardly anything unlocked (no mount so he can't go fast, no flying, no chocobo to help out, can't upgrade from a class to a job at level 30 because he isn't far enough into the MSQ yet, no frontline PvP unlocked, etc). For non dungeon stuff, hold on until he's at least level 30 when he starts unlocking stuff that you can do together and makes it convenient for him.

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  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    FFXIV isn't co-op friendly for first timers. Yes you can technically play with him as he is going through the MSQ, but it's only really practical to play with a new player going through the MSQ when they are doing dungeons, and the first one doesn't unlock until level 15. Otherwise, you're just going to be waiting around while he effectively plays a singleplayer JRPG: running and talking to NPCs, watching cutscenes, doing solo duties, etc. If you want to play with him before that, then you can only really screw around doing FATEs or hunting log, but I'd imagine it'd be a miserable experience for the new guy because he will have hardly anything unlocked (no mount so he can't go fast, no flying, no chocobo to help out, can't upgrade from a class to a job at level 30 because he isn't far enough into the MSQ yet, no frontline PvP unlocked, etc). For non dungeon stuff, hold on until he's at least level 30 when he starts unlocking stuff that you can do together and makes it convenient for him.
    So basically, it would be better to level up my crafting and gathering while he does his MSQ and only join him for the Dungeons. Bummer. :/

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Milfshaked View Post
    FF14 combat might not be rocket science, but it is far more complex than anything wow has to offer. I think saying anything different would require quite some dishonesty as the difference is massive.
    Did you uh.... read anything else in my post besides that first line? I gave a very detailed breakdown of what depth/synergy and complexity looks like in WoW. Did you see it/read it or have any questions or concerns as to why I typed was incorrect?

    Mind you, we're in agreement on your other points (esp. about interrupts, utility, etc.).

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Correct. The original claim though was something along the lines of it being the only way to play deep dungeon which obviously is absurd.
    Nope, no one claimed that. It's just you going off on silly tangents about "meta mumbo jumbo" wanting to find something to fight about.

    I wouldn't even bother claiming that 51-60 farming is the "only way to play deep dungeon" since I do a lot of DD soloing myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Did you uh.... read anything else in my post besides that first line? I gave a very detailed breakdown of what depth/synergy and complexity looks like in WoW. Did you see it/read it or have any questions or concerns as to why I typed was incorrect?

    Mind you, we're in agreement on your other points (esp. about interrupts, utility, etc.).
    But...the buttons...there's so many buttons!

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by valrchron View Post
    This game wasn't for me.
    Feeling burnt out on WoW, I figured I'd try FFXIV since there's lots of content in the free trial.
    I've tried tons of MMOs throughout the years, WoW, SWTOR, TESO, GW2, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Neverwinter and a bunch more.
    Yet my new player experience in FFXIV was, by far, the worst in any MMO I've played. It took me legit about one hour before I even got into my first combat.
    I know that you probably can get to the first fighting quest faster, but for me as a new player who doesn't know where stuff is and who read all the quests (fairly slow reader), and spent some time moving around my UI, it took a lot of time just running around. I also found the map to be clunky which didn't help. So I spent about an hour doing delivery and fetch quests in the city you start in before finally getting outside and into combat. At that point I was bored out of my mind, and just uninstalled it.

    Most MMO's start you off with a "Kill 5 pigs" quest or something like that, and even that is much more fun than "Go talk to X" "Now go talk to Y" "Now deliver this to Z".

    Maybe I just did the quests in the wrong order or something, or maybe I should've just skipped all the quest text, but by the point I was about an hour in, and had lost any enthusiasm I had.
    This is one of the things I hear more, players that not really care for the story and just want to fight things.... while it makes total sense, Your character is totally new to your starter town they don't have any status or are skill tested yet, so they start doing easy stuff for the town folks to gain trust, it's totally normal that one stranger would not send you out to kill some wolfs in the forest if you don't have any true XP doing that, they rather would send someone that got Reputation to fight wolfs so they don't send one random person to their deaths! When the story process and your character build rep, lots more combat quest and during the game your combat skills also get better, it's hard work to earn that!

  10. #490
    Thancred is officially my favorite character. Still early in the MSQ, just chose my grand company (flame people won for skimpiest armor :P) and finally got my chocobo. Incidentally, if you're only playing one job you're going to be closer to 30 by the time you get it, certainly not level 20 based on my experience. I've started alternating between two jobs when I turn quests in and I'm still +5 over the MSQ - on both jobs now! Starting to think I need to weave in a third one.

    Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro ones because I don't like being responsible for wasting other's time. Speaking of which, is there a command other than /gpose that removes the UI?

    My main job atm is lancer, still no AoE at level 25 so I'm assuming I have to become a full on dragoon before I get one. I feel kind of gimpy in groups because of it, even though there's no DPS meter I just feel like I'm not doing as much as the other DPS when I have to poke one monster at a time.

    Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    This is one of the things I hear more, players that not really care for the story and just want to fight things.... while it makes total sense, Your character is totally new to your starter town they don't have any status or are skill tested yet, so they start doing easy stuff for the town folks to gain trust, it's totally normal that one stranger would not send you out to kill some wolfs in the forest if you don't have any true XP doing that, they rather would send someone that got Reputation to fight wolfs so they don't send one random person to their deaths! When the story process and your character build rep, lots more combat quest and during the game your combat skills also get better, it's hard work to earn that!
    The starting experience in XIV is an extremely common complaint though, and it could probably use some work.

    Granted, combat isn't everything, and the game has a large focus on story. Still, the starting experience is probably the number one complaint, maybe second to post-ARR questlines.

  12. #492
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    The "issue" with the starting experience is that there's a lot of world building that will pay off the in the future

    FFXIV is story first, game later.
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The starting experience in XIV is an extremely common complaint though, and it could probably use some work.

    Granted, combat isn't everything, and the game has a large focus on story. Still, the starting experience is probably the number one complaint, maybe second to post-ARR questlines.
    They desperately need to find a way to streamline both the initial ARR leveling, and the post ARR questlines pre heavensword. Both are exhaustingly lengthy by even old MMORPG standards, and no doubt i'd bet ff14 loses it's biggest # of potential players during that. Players who never get to the really good content because ARR is kind of a slog, and the post ARR content (while the raid boss encounters are fun) is 90% just "warp here talk to this person. go here to this other person. do that 10x and 1 boss fight, repeat the process multiple times".

    I like ff14, and i'm not trying to rain on its parade, i'm just being honest that they could use to streamline ARR-post ARR quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The "issue" with the starting experience is that there's a lot of world building that will pay off the in the future

    FFXIV is story first, game later.
    let's not pretend ARR story is all that interesting, at least not until the very end or post ARR. And it drags on, and on, and on....

    compare it to something like SWTOR class story and it's clear that ff14 needs to revamp it's ARR experience because right now, it handicaps the game more than it helps it.

    EXAMPLE: Asmongold, love him or hate him, is going to try to level up ff14 next week and will start fresh. The only reason i even bring him up is because i guarantee he's going to spend the first 50 levels crying about the painfully slow and dull leveling of ARR, and he won't even make it to the really good stuff of Heavensword and beyond.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The starting experience in XIV is an extremely common complaint though, and it could probably use some work.

    Granted, combat isn't everything, and the game has a large focus on story. Still, the starting experience is probably the number one complaint, maybe second to post-ARR questlines.
    Yeah, and rightfully so. It feels really slow which doesn't help with retention.

    Narratively the way the do it makes sense, but it feels bad. For players interested in the story and really into the game they'll suffer through it until it gets better, but they're STILL suffering through it. Even as someone who loves FFXIV, the new player experience is terrible. They could introduce new quests that establish the combat faster. You don't need to do tedious quests to establish yourselves as someone capable. They could have sparring quests that "see what you got!" before throwing you to the wolves.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Thancred is officially my favorite character. Still early in the MSQ, just chose my grand company (flame people won for skimpiest armor :P) and finally got my chocobo. Incidentally, if you're only playing one job you're going to be closer to 30 by the time you get it, certainly not level 20 based on my experience. I've started alternating between two jobs when I turn quests in and I'm still +5 over the MSQ - on both jobs now! Starting to think I need to weave in a third one.

    Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro ones because I don't like being responsible for wasting other's time. Speaking of which, is there a command other than /gpose that removes the UI?

    My main job atm is lancer, still no AoE at level 25 so I'm assuming I have to become a full on dragoon before I get one. I feel kind of gimpy in groups because of it, even though there's no DPS meter I just feel like I'm not doing as much as the other DPS when I have to poke one monster at a time.

    Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.
    No one will mind you watching cutscenes at the beginning of dungeons/trials. But if you really feel like you have to skip them you can rewatch them in any inn room.

    'Scroll lock' is the default key to hide your ui without going into gpose.

    People know which classes get aoes later then the others. Just focus on not getting hit by aoes and not damage. Players are a lot more understanding about it then you might thing, mainly because we've all had to drudge through it.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Thancred is officially my favorite character. Still early in the MSQ, just chose my grand company (flame people won for skimpiest armor :P) and finally got my chocobo. Incidentally, if you're only playing one job you're going to be closer to 30 by the time you get it, certainly not level 20 based on my experience. I've started alternating between two jobs when I turn quests in and I'm still +5 over the MSQ - on both jobs now! Starting to think I need to weave in a third one.

    Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro ones because I don't like being responsible for wasting other's time. Speaking of which, is there a command other than /gpose that removes the UI?

    My main job atm is lancer, still no AoE at level 25 so I'm assuming I have to become a full on dragoon before I get one. I feel kind of gimpy in groups because of it, even though there's no DPS meter I just feel like I'm not doing as much as the other DPS when I have to poke one monster at a time.

    Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.
    Dragoon is weird, you don't get a proper AoE until 40. Then eventually you get some of the coolest AoE's and a 3-step AoE combo.

    It's all a bit of a mess early on though.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The "issue" with the starting experience is that there's a lot of world building that will pay off the in the future

    FFXIV is story first, game later.
    Indeed. It makes very little sense to complain about combat in a story heavy game. The problem however is players having a preconceived view of what a MMORPG "should be", the game not really being marketed enough as a JRPG first even though the community are doing their best to avoid fooling anyone.

    I think that everyone could do a better job at explaining to people what the game is so they expect it to be a proper video game and not a reskinned WoW.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Thancred is officially my favorite character.
    I thought most of the Scions were meh until Shadowbringers. Only ones I liked in ARR were Papalymo, Minfillia, and Tataru.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro one
    Don't worry about the intro cutscenes to dungeons. Just watch them on your first time. People who've already seen the cutscenes a billion times and have intro cutscenes turned off just find other things to do while they wait. FFXIV has conditioned its playerbase to not rush that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.
    Au Ra are pretty much the idealized Japanese stand in, so naturally the females are going to be petite and short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Indeed. It makes very little sense to complain about combat in a story heavy game. The problem however is players having a preconceived view of what a MMORPG "should be", the game not really being marketed enough as a JRPG first
    Eh, the cinematic trailers and the patch trailers emphasize characters talking (character drama, plot, mysteries) and cutscenes, basically selling the story first. I do agree that the FFXIV newbie website sells it as an MMO first, rather than the JRPG the game mainly is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    I think that everyone could do a better job at explaining to people what the game is so they expect it to be a proper video game and not a reskinned WoW.
    True.

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  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Indeed. It makes very little sense to complain about combat in a story heavy game. The problem however is players having a preconceived view of what a MMORPG "should be", the game not really being marketed enough as a JRPG first even though the community are doing their best to avoid fooling anyone.

    I think that everyone could do a better job at explaining to people what the game is so they expect it to be a proper video game and not a reskinned WoW.
    At some point you can't keep blaming new players for finding the experience lackluster, though.

    ARR really does have a metric fuckton of filler, and it really does play at a snails pace for quite some time. These are extremely common complaints among new players, and addressing the issue doesn't make it a "reskinned WoW" or anything.

  20. #500
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Its hard not to expect an mmo to have a wow pace after years of being the only relevant mmo with every other game in the genre emulating it

    So yes. We do have ESO and FFXIV now, but wow is the one people expect mmos to play like
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

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