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  1. #561
    Dreadlord GoKs's Avatar
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    I eventually started playing, dont have much time to play though but reached level 8 with my archer. I like the game so far, but it can be that it is just the "newness" of it all. It does feel a bit slow but i think it is due to me being low level and only having 4 buttons to press, so I find myself spamming the heavyshot button till it eventually shoots, again I fully expect it to change once I am a higher level with all the bazillion buttons every one say you have. I am playing on a trail account just to test it out.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't know why this is something people feel like they can/should try arguing.

    Every XIV forum on the internet will tell you this.

    Any group in game - including Novice Network - will tell you this.
    Have nothing to say to that as I don't surf many forums with exception of MMO-C and the XIV forums which are a meme, nor do I have NN active.

    Healers will Rescue you into more packs. (I don't hate it personally, because it does make things faster, but yeah people who are already nervous about tanking will be thrown for a loop.)
    Been playing since 1.0, have every job to 80 and can confidently say that I've NEVER seen this done and this is coming from one of those timid tanks. I've seen healers use it to stress to a lazy player they need to move from AoEs, I've used it on over zealous DPS that try to act as though they're tanks, but not once have I seen it used to pull a tank to more mobs.

    Granted in friend groups I've seen it used as a method of trolling/trapping/meme-ing to kill people.

    People will "kindly" inform you that "it's ok to pull more" and you know what that really translates to.
    This is completely disingenuous. This falls to individual interpretation. Sure it can be taken as "you're trash do better" or it can also mean exactly what it means.

    It's not something strange, or rare, or up for debate. It's the community standard for dungeon tanking. I don't know why people always pop up and try declaring otherwise.
    More often than not from what I see; not every case obviously, it's people disagreeing with people making sweeping claims and them thinking their disagreeing with the basis of the argument then falling into circular arguments with each other. Both sides really need to be a bit more conscientious and cognizant of where they're arguing from and not present their side by way of generalizations.

    Both communities have their good points just as much as they have their bad apples.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's not that people are talking about wanting to skip that part of the story itself, they're referring to the gameplay and pacing of said part of the story.

    It's something Square has addressed as being less than ideal as well, it's just not likely to get changed at this point.
    I understand the complaint is that they don't like ARR in general. I'm just not sure how else people expect to fix this issue. Wanting the dev team to waste time and resources to go back and edit all of the story content is unrealistic. We saw what happened when a team wasted resources fixing old content at the expense of new. Cata is still considered one of the worst expansions in wow history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I think of it like this. I played Dark Souls 3 as my first souls game. I loved every second of it. The world, the graphics, the scope, etc. Yet everyone places it pretty far down the list. People hyped up DS1 big time, but when I went and played the remaster when it was released (mind you I had completed DS3 -> Bloodborne -> DS2 SotFS -> at this point and was like THIS is what people hyped up? It felt so bad compared to the more recent entries (specifically DS3 and Bloodborne), but I think it's similar in the vein to the FF14 thing.

    ARR reads and plays like a year 2000 game. Shadowbringers doesn't, hell even Heavensward doesn't. It's a jarring experience. I don't know what the solution is. Honestly ARR could probably be fixed with some additional trimming and just letting people use fucking linkpearls and stop the courier service frequency. That alone could both speed up and help remove some of the nonsense (let us use the echo combined with Linkpearls to like phase there automatically or something in spirit.
    Theres a flaw in your comparison. In your example, you played DS3 as your first experience in the series. Then you went back and played the older game, you where comparing what you already experienced in the series to "new" content for you. New people coming into this game have not experienced ShB first. They have to go through ARR first. It's all new to them.

    I don't disagree that ARR isnt as well written and paced then the other expansions. The issue is the constant talk about fixing it. They already did a prune of what they could. Cutting out anymore of the story would mess up later parts of the plot down the road, or involve a large undertaking that would detract from new content being worked on. Even your example of changing the dialog to linkpearls would involve having to redo the story hooks, and edit the scenes to just call the linkpearl with the dialog box changes. And then we will have endless scenes of your character standing around with his hand to his ear.

    Rumor is the next expansion after Endwalker, they are going to start a new story arc and will offer a new jumping on point. I think this is probably the safest fix without spending too many resources on fixing the old story path. ARR most likely is never going to be changed again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't know why this is something people feel like they can/should try arguing.

    Every XIV forum on the internet will tell you this.

    Any group in game - including Novice Network - will tell you this.

    Healers will Rescue you into more packs. (I don't hate it personally, because it does make things faster, but yeah people who are already nervous about tanking will be thrown for a loop.)

    People will "kindly" inform you that "it's ok to pull more" and you know what that really translates to.

    It's not something strange, or rare, or up for debate. It's the community standard for dungeon tanking. I don't know why people always pop up and try declaring otherwise.
    I feel like people are trying too hard to prove that FF14 is this toxic cesspool. You don't know that someone saying "you can pull more" is them being passive aggresive. Maybe they are, maybe they arn't. But who cares. The only thing I care about is the tone being presented to me. Someone saying "you can pull more" to me wouldnt make me upset, I would just step it up a little more and move on. I'd take this over some of the things i've seen said to in dungeons and lfr on wow.

    When you go to a store or restaurant, do you care if the person helping you is being genuinely kind, or just putting on an image? I never even think about. We all know most of these people are really thinking they can't wait for us to be gone. But we don't sit there and talk about how toxic x store is because the employees act polite, but we know what their really thinking. Why do we concern ourselves so much about it in a video game where we will most likely never see that player again.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak View Post
    I understand the complaint is that they don't like ARR in general. I'm just not sure how else people expect to fix this issue. Wanting the dev team to waste time and resources to go back and edit all of the story content is unrealistic. We saw what happened when a team wasted resources fixing old content at the expense of new. Cata is still considered one of the worst expansions in wow history.
    I never really got why people say this. Cataclysm was a lot of fun. Well, Dragon Soul was a thing, but aside from that.

    Anyway, it's beside the point I guess.

    I feel like people are trying too hard to prove that FF14 is this toxic cesspool. You don't know that someone saying "you can pull more" is them being passive aggresive. Maybe they are, maybe they arn't. But who cares. The only thing I care about is the tone being presented to me. Someone saying "you can pull more" to me wouldnt make me upset, I would just step it up a little more and move on. I'd take this over some of the things i've seen said to in dungeons and lfr on wow.

    When you go to a store or restaurant, do you care if the person helping you is being genuinely kind, or just putting on an image? I never even think about. We all know most of these people are really thinking they can't wait for us to be gone. But we don't sit there and talk about how toxic x store is because the employees act polite, but we know what their really thinking. Why do we concern ourselves so much about it in a video game where we will most likely never see that player again.
    Nothing to do with trying to prove anything, or placing a lot of care into what they're thinking. I was only talking about the reality that there are certain playstyle expectations in XIV. (Tanks pulling big, healers DPSing, etc)

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak View Post
    I understand the complaint is that they don't like ARR in general. I'm just not sure how else people expect to fix this issue. Wanting the dev team to waste time and resources to go back and edit all of the story content is unrealistic. We saw what happened when a team wasted resources fixing old content at the expense of new. Cata is still considered one of the worst expansions in wow history.
    Having just finished the 'wine & cheese' part, they could have cut that out entirely, especially if you never see those side characters again in any meaningful way. At the end, even Y'shtola was sitting there like, "Satisfied yet?" Even she seemed to know it was unnecessary. I don't care much as I'm not in a rush, but I've seen a couple other people complain about that side quest chain too so I know it's not just me.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak View Post
    Theres a flaw in your comparison. In your example, you played DS3 as your first experience in the series. Then you went back and played the older game, you where comparing what you already experienced in the series to "new" content for you. New people coming into this game have not experienced ShB first. They have to go through ARR first. It's all new to them.
    I disagree on the flaw because it's wildly preached about how "ARR is a slog, you just have to get through it", "it gets better, I promise", etc. These claims are everywhere so it's not unreasonable to take that as a new player and see the parallel, especially if you take into consideration if they watch any content on streams or whatever and people see this cool flashy well populated content, but don't realize it's locked behind 200+ hrs of near single player content.

    I feel like people are trying too hard to prove that FF14 is this toxic cesspool. You don't know that someone saying "you can pull more" is them being passive aggresive. Maybe they are, maybe they arn't. But who cares. The only thing I care about is the tone being presented to me. Someone saying "you can pull more" to me wouldnt make me upset, I would just step it up a little more and move on. I'd take this over some of the things i've seen said to in dungeons and lfr on wow.
    Speaking to what I said, I was very clear when I said it could be passive aggressive or it could be them being nice depending entirely on the context. My argument has never been FF14 is a toxic cesspool, merely that it isn't some utopia, it's the same as any other online community. A bell curve with shitty people all around it.

  7. #567
    I've been playing for just over a week fairly casually and I've honestly just been surprised at how nice everyone seems to be, at least in the low level dungeons. My friend and I are both on trial accounts and I've been surprised how easily we've been able to get people to invite us both to group and then leave so we can queue together for dungeons. I haven't heard a bad word against anyone in dungeons (even against me, who has done some pretty dumb shit so far). The dungeons are fun. The story is interesting albeit there's a good bit of running everywhere.

    I also love that you can switch jobs on the fly. It's so nice to be able to level one of my other jobs while waiting on my friend so we can do the MSQ together

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I think of it like this. I played Dark Souls 3 as my first souls game. I loved every second of it. The world, the graphics, the scope, etc. Yet everyone places it pretty far down the list. People hyped up DS1 big time, but when I went and played the remaster when it was released (mind you I had completed DS3 -> Bloodborne -> DS2 SotFS -> at this point and was like THIS is what people hyped up? It felt so bad compared to the more recent entries (specifically DS3 and Bloodborne), but I think it's similar in the vein to the FF14 thing.

    ARR reads and plays like a year 2000 game. Shadowbringers doesn't, hell even Heavensward doesn't. It's a jarring experience. I don't know what the solution is. Honestly ARR could probably be fixed with some additional trimming and just letting people use fucking linkpearls and stop the courier service frequency. That alone could both speed up and help remove some of the nonsense (let us use the echo combined with Linkpearls to like phase there automatically or something in spirit.
    It honestly just feels like more than half the MSQ for ARR needs to be trimmed away, as a LOT of the MSQ has absolutely nothing to do with the main story being told. ARR has major "side quest filler" issues, even after the pruning.


    I'm playing the ARR MSQ right now for the first time. I'm character level 46, still stuck in level 31-32 MSQ. I've skipped *everything* except MSQ and job quests. It's a real slog of fed-ex BS and long, pointless dialogues with characters who can't possibly be very important. It has it's great moments for sure, but I'd say 80% of the questing so far has been tedious travel and dialogue.

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Huh?
    [video= major spoiler, so cut /video]
    yeah just spoil a very key moment in the story to try and make a point you think you're making. One of the coolest moments ever, interpreted as "cringy".

  10. #570
    EDIT: The titan arc is pure padding but JRPG's are generally long games with their fair share of padding, FFXIV is really more a jrpg with mmo features stapled on than an MMO with a JRPG styling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    This is completely disingenuous. This falls to individual interpretation. Sure it can be taken as "you're trash do better" or it can also mean exactly what it means.
    Nah "It's ok to pull more kawai desu ^_^" 10000% translates into anything from "pull faster and please don't report me for daring to use the chat function to comment on your gameplay" to "W2W you useless shitter".
    This is the problem with talking about toxicity in FFXIV, the chat system doesn't make FFXIV player's less toxic it just protects people's feelings. Just because you aren't getting flamed in-game doesn't mean you aren't getting hosed on discord.
    Last edited by Saltysquidoon; 2021-07-03 at 09:56 AM.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  11. #571
    I have quibbles about the general storyline in stormblood, but i have to say, the first dungeon and first trial (just done the trial) were both super fun. I dont know if its just that im more in tune with my healing, (and not panic healing like i have been doing since arr), but the mechanics were really enjoyable and it seems like a step up.

    On a different note, and not exactly a running commentary, but the kojin beast tribe unlock was super adorable.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-07-03 at 11:48 PM.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    yeah just spoil a very key moment in the story to try and make a point you think you're making.
    The post I replied to spoiled Illidan's showdown with Xe'ra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    One of the coolest moments ever, interpreted as "cringy".
    Killing big bad with poor man's kamehameha is a definition of cringe.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    The post I replied to spoiled Illidan's showdown with Xe'ra.
    The difference is that a lot of people play FFXIV for the story, it's one of the biggest appeals of the game. The people who play WoW for the story are few and far between, most play WoW for the endgame.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    The post I replied to spoiled Illidan's showdown with Xe'ra.

    Killing big bad with poor man's kamehameha is a definition of cringe.
    Honestly, fixating too much on the visual mechanic of a storytelling method always felt kinda silly.

    If the core storytelling is good, who cares if we kill the big bad in the end with a kung fu fight, or a swat team with machine guns, or a kamehameha, or dropping a nuke on the city?

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Honestly, fixating too much on the visual mechanic of a storytelling method always felt kinda silly.

    If the core storytelling is good, who cares if we kill the big bad in the end with a kung fu fight, or a swat team with machine guns, or a kamehameha, or dropping a nuke on the city?
    If N'zoth fight would end up with SWAT team breaching the boss room, with "GO! GO! GO!" screams and handcuffing the octopus then i admit, it would be better than lazor ending.

  16. #576
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    After watching his twitch followers doing their best to ruin his game experience for him, I can really appreciate that I am not Asmongold. Granted that is not exclusive to FFXIV, but still it is nice to play without psychos following me everywhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Having just finished the 'wine & cheese' part, they could have cut that out entirely, especially if you never see those side characters again in any meaningful way. At the end, even Y'shtola was sitting there like, "Satisfied yet?" Even she seemed to know it was unnecessary. I don't care much as I'm not in a rush, but I've seen a couple other people complain about that side quest chain too so I know it's not just me.
    That's a pretty big IF, you know.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    After watching his twitch followers doing their best to ruin his game experience for him, I can really appreciate that I am not Asmongold. Granted that is not exclusive to FFXIV, but still it is nice to play without psychos following me everywhere.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's a pretty big IF, you know.
    Dont know whats wrong with them, even saw sprouts, could be those morons made a trial account to harras him. About the higher lvl ones....those are morons aswell. Thinking that asmon is a rockstar or something, the hell is the world going to. Think its best that he keeps streaming WoW and doesnt stream FF14 while he plays that with his friends. Honestly there was even a Q&A where viewers could ask asmongold questions and they were nervous???? Also you think Squire enix is going to something with this, the zones were getting basically full cuz the moron fans started stalking him

  18. #578
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    Dont know whats wrong with them, even saw sprouts, could be those morons made a trial account to harras him. About the higher lvl ones....those are morons aswell. Thinking that asmon is a rockstar or something, the hell is the world going to. Think its best that he keeps streaming WoW and doesnt stream FF14 while he plays that with his friends. Honestly there was even a Q&A where viewers could ask asmongold questions and they were nervous???? Also you think Squire enix is going to something with this, the zones were getting basically full cuz the moron fans started stalking him
    Well we get a lot of sprouts, but yes. Most of them are his inbread followers who made trial accounts just to fuck him up. The older ones: I think those are like the far right tough guys, who beat up black and asian people, but only if they are 40 years older than them and they have like five other morons to back them up.

    Obviously they play the game, but when Asmon is on they take up their "LOL Wow Killer Copium, let me laugh at depression" persona, cause for a lot of people being a dick on the internet is fun.

    And yes, Square needs to do something. Not for Asmon, but for everyone else. If you can't get to Limsa because of those dicks, the game is negatively impacted for the entire server. It would be nice if they could just watch his stream, Identify a bunch of those characters and delete their accounts.

  19. #579
    Herald of the Titans The Oblivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Well we get a lot of sprouts, but yes. Most of them are his inbread followers who made trial accounts just to fuck him up. The older ones: I think those are like the far right tough guys, who beat up black and asian people, but only if they are 40 years older than them and they have like five other morons to back them up.

    Obviously they play the game, but when Asmon is on they take up their "LOL Wow Killer Copium, let me laugh at depression" persona, cause for a lot of people being a dick on the internet is fun.

    And yes, Square needs to do something. Not for Asmon, but for everyone else. If you can't get to Limsa because of those dicks, the game is negatively impacted for the entire server. It would be nice if they could just watch his stream, Identify a bunch of those characters and delete their accounts.
    1. why are you race baiting in this thread
    2. if i google attacks this past year on asains, it is like 90% black people doing it, so i guess its far left socialists doing it? not far right tough guys.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    That's a pretty big IF, you know.
    Yeah, which is why I followed with "in any meaningful way". I've since learned they do show up later, but I don't know in what capacity so the point still stands.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

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