Wow refugees, what are you enjoying about the game?

[Echo of Soul]

Yeah I tried and failed to get them to work.

/ac "Cure" <mo>

[Kyriani]

It's not about keybinds, its about how visually terrible (not seeing at first glance) party UI is.

I am used to bigger solid boxes that change color based on party member hp. That worked in wow, delay is minimum.
Party ui has gazillion small progress bars for mana, hp and castbar. This is simply a visual clutter that either strains the eye or make it extremely annoying to see who are you suppose to heal in first place.

Ah I see. While I use a UI mod in wow for the party list, its mostly cosmetic and in the same location as the default (and my FFXIV UI is set up the same as my wow UI). I don't have any color changing based on HP in WoW, I just watch the bars (and do the same in FFXIV). Sorry that my suggestion isn't helpful

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I tried and failed to get them to work.

Here's an example of a few of my healing macros:

/merror off
/ac "Cure" <mo>
/macroicon "Cure"

/merror off
/ac "Swiftcast" <me>
/wait
/ac "Raise" <mo>
/p Raising <mo>!
/macroicon "Raise"

[Zyrinx]

Ah I see. While I use a UI mod in wow for the party list, its mostly cosmetic and in the same location as the default (and my FFXIV UI is set up the same as my wow UI). I don't have any color changing based on HP in WoW, I just watch the bars (and do the same in FFXIV). Sorry that my suggestion isn't helpful

- - - Updated - - -



Here's an example of a few of my healing macros:

Thanks for these, will deffo try.

Very dumb followup: are you mousing over the players frame in the party, or their actual character in the game world?

[kaminaris]

People having been healing "anything serious" since this game launched just fine with the default UI, with no add-ons. So if you're unable to, that's a YOU problem.

That said, I won't deny that add-ons would make it better, or easier. But, the UI is perfectly functional and healing high end, difficult content is absolutely doable using the default UI functionality.

Cool, some people are able to ride unicycle better than others riding normal bicycle, still doesn't make it more ergonomic or better option.

You might as well turn it off completely and heal based on player nameplates.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah I see. While I use a UI mod in wow for the party list, its mostly cosmetic and in the same location as the default (and my FFXIV UI is set up the same as my wow UI). I don't have any color changing based on HP in WoW, I just watch the bars (and do the same in FFXIV). Sorry that my suggestion isn't helpful

Yes cosmetic, thats all I want. Like not see castbar - pretty useless anyways, not see mana or see it as really small pixel bar, not see garbage info like levels.

Your suggestion is helpful in a different regard, i won't need to google mouseover macros

my goal is to make custom UI as overlay to party UI in a way that mouseover macros should work (clickthrough, not capture mouse events).

[Kyriani]

Thanks for these, will deffo try.

Very dumb followup: are you mousing over the players frame in the party, or their actual character in the game world?

I mouseover the character name on my party list. You can mouseover a character itself with these macros too if you prefer, but I am used to just mousing over the names on the party list.

[Katchii]

Cool, some people are able to ride unicycle better than others riding normal bicycle, still doesn't make it more ergonomic or better option.

You might as well turn it off completely and heal based on player nameplates.

Just pointing out that's it's perfectly functional and has been for almost 8 years as evidenced by people being able to complete high end content without add-ons that whole time, refuting the point you seemed to be trying to make about "Only if you've never healed anything serious."

Your example is also a little off. A unicycle and a bicycle are different things. Playing FFXIV with or without add-ons would be more similar to riding a bicycle with or without training wheels, or some other modification that makes it easier or more ergonomic or whatever.

[kaminaris]

Just pointing out that's it's perfectly functional and has been for almost 8 years as evidenced by people being able to complete high end content without add-ons that whole time, refuting the point you seemed to be trying to make about "Only if you've never healed anything serious."

Your example is also a little off. A unicycle and a bicycle are different things. Playing FFXIV with or without add-ons would be more similar to riding a bicycle with or without training wheels, or some other modification that makes it easier or more ergonomic or whatever.

You seems to forget that addons do exist for XIV and in you actually check with some people (even on stream) they are often using it, Cactbot (dbm like) and dps meter seems most popular. And lets not forget logs.

[Katchii]

You seems to forget that addons do exist for XIV and in you actually check with some people (even on stream) they are often using it, Cactbot (dbm like) and dps meter seems most popular. And lets not forget logs.

And you seem to be assuming that everyone that has ever done high level content in FFXIV must be using any or all of those add-ons to do the job, which is just not true.

Let's not pretend that a DPS meter does anything besides tell you how much damage/ healing is being done, they don't help you navigate mechanics or heal better. They provide metrics to meausure your performance.

[CalamityHeart]

Now that I've begun to wade into endgame content on FFXIV, something very refreshing that I enjoy about this game compared to WoW raids is how most of the endgame that I'm interested in works.

Trials and full-party raids are set up nice and simply. You start directly in front of the boss, a single boss, and you just do the encounter. And then the instance ends once that single encounter is over and you get your loot. It just feels really nice. And (as far as I can tell) you are totally unlimited in how often you can just do these instances repeatedly for additional chances at things you're looking for like crafting materials or glams or nice mounts. It's so scarily accessible that I'm just sort of waiting for a catch somewhere.

[shimerra]

Yes it is, when their reasons are objectively untrue.

Considering most of those things they mentioned are in fact subjective opinions on things I think the only thing that is objectively untrue is the statement that you understand what the word objective means.

I personally don't get the UI complaints, it's no worse than any other MMO, but their system menus are pure hot shitty swampy ass. And I said it before: I quit FF14 shortly after some of my WoW buddies suckered me into playing it at launch as a pugilist. You get abilities slow and the the MSQ is dog shit. I bought the game again on a steam sale to play with some RL buddies and the beginning was pretty mind numbing. I really didn't enjoy my class until I got some levels into being a ninja. I can't blame anyone for being unexcited by the game play until you get your first job. The biggest complaint I've had about the game as someone who couldn't give a rat's ass about FF14 as a franchise but likes MMO gameplay is that it has a rough start but cleans itself up once you get to the expansions.

That being said for hating WoW fanboys you're basically doing the same thing you claim to hate about him for FF14......

[Ompus]

I personally would advise against using macro's since they don't queue in ffxiv and because of that, are clunky to use. (barring a few exceptions)
You may only lose a fraction of a second per cast but in the long run it makes a difference.

That of course only matters if you want to play 100% optimal and its not required for you to clear anything currently in the game, something to keep in mind regardless.

[kaminaris]

And you seem to be assuming that everyone that has ever done high level content in FFXIV must be using any or all of those add-ons to do the job, which is just not true.

Let's not pretend that a DPS meter does anything besides tell you how much damage/ healing is being done, they don't help you navigate mechanics or heal better. They provide metrics to meausure your performance.

Its the same as difference between world first race in wow. Yes you can handle that without addons but some prefer to have more clear UI, better filtering, bigger text and bigger bars. Some like to have skill timers, audio notification.

[Katchii]

Its the same as difference between world first race in wow. Yes you can handle that without addons but some prefer to have more clear UI, better filtering, bigger text and bigger bars. Some like to have skill timers, audio notification.

I'm not debating preference, but your insinuation that people are somehow unable to do it without them.

[kaminaris]

I'm not debating preference, but your insinuation that people are somehow unable to do it without them.

Some people genuinely can't or have problems with it, and its not just because they lack the skill. Bad eyesight is one of them. One of the things that about my job is making sure stuff I do is usable by pretty much everyone, part of that is user experience. Reason why internet web pages changed so much over the years is because of that. I could write an essay about it but that would be parroting what you can find in google with search term: "user friendly interface".

Both wow and ffxiv falls flat on the face in this one. For example big aspect is having lots of small elements put together in a close distance that puts a strain on your eyes, or having to look in a corner of your UI just to see your HP, another thing is having small font sizes (well at least in xiv you can somehow zoom that).

The fact such tools even exists and are popular is direct confirmation of that. Doesn't matter YOU can do it. Some people just can't or in my case I don't want to strain my eyes at all even if that means having some weird stuff installed.

[Katchii]

Some people genuinely can't or have problems with it, and its not just because they lack the skill. Bad eyesight is one of them. One of the things that about my job is making sure stuff I do is usable by pretty much everyone, part of that is user experience. Reason why internet web pages changed so much over the years is because of that. I could write an essay about it but that would be parroting what you can find in google with search term: "user friendly interface".

Both wow and ffxiv falls flat on the face in this one. For example big aspect is having lots of small elements put together in a close distance that puts a strain on your eyes, or having to look in a corner of your UI just to see your HP, another thing is having small font sizes (well at least in xiv you can somehow zoom that).

The fact such tools even exists and are popular is direct confirmation of that. Doesn't matter YOU can do it. Some people just can't or in my case I don't want to strain my eyes at all even if that means having some weird stuff installed.

All fair points. I honestly wasn't even thinking about users that needed the assistance. If that was where you were coming from originally, I think you could have phrased it a little better, but I see your point.

[Caerrona]

And you seem to be assuming that everyone that has ever done high level content in FFXIV must be using any or all of those add-ons to do the job, which is just not true.

Let's not pretend that a DPS meter does anything besides tell you how much damage/ healing is being done, they don't help you navigate mechanics or heal better. They provide metrics to meausure your performance.

Wasn't involved in the conversation previously so correct me if this was brought up.

If you are talking about in combat. Yes they display (generally) hps/dps.

After a pull dps meters have come so far as to basically be logs you can skim through in the game. I can basically see proc usage, crits, uptimes, potion/rock usage and 100 other things of everyone in the raid.

Not using them because of "feelings" or the big bad "elitists" is dumb and any competitive environment benefits from more information.

[kaminaris]

All fair points. I honestly wasn't even thinking about users that needed the assistance. If that was where you were coming from originally, I think you could have phrased it a little better, but I see your point.

Perhaps I could have write it better.

But the general point is I really really really really really really really really really really really really dislike bad UIs. To the point it became my obsession.

Despite having pretty damn good eyesight I still use tons of usability options whenever I can so my sight STAYS that way for longer. I even use colorblind mode whenever I can simply because it makes (usually) colors more distinguishable, I have dark theme in every app I use and have darkreader extension just to minimize light emitted from monitors even tho some websites looks like garbage. I regularly check my eyes and I'm still able to read last row on ophthalmic board. Which is pretty impressive considering one of two remaining people in company that still doesn't wear glasses and doesn't have to.

That might sound like bragging but this is essentially obsession that was born from seeing 5 years younger colleagues gradually loosing sight and either doing a laser vision correction or wearing eyeglasses. My job as dev doesn't help that in this regard.

And the bottom line is, I know that there are people who have it worse.

[Tenjen]

Another ex-wow player turned FFXIV streamer brought up an important point that in FFXIV, most of the systems included in expansions arent discarded. They still have players actively using/attending them, they still have a level of usefulness, are carried on in some capacity or are outright updated/kept relevant for new expacs.

Atleast compared to wow where new (interesting) systems included every expansion are discarded and forgotten about in the next, seemingly by design. Such that new players joining from a certain expansion onwards wont even know the systems from prior expansions exist.

[Caerrona]

Another ex-wow player turned FFXIV streamer brought up an important point that in FFXIV, most of the systems included in expansions arent discarded. They still have players actively using/attending them, they still have a level of usefulness, are carried on in some capacity or are outright updated/kept relevant for new expacs.

Atleast compared to wow where new (interesting) systems included every expansion are discarded and forgotten about in the next, seemingly by design. Such that new players joining from a certain expansion onwards wont even know the systems from prior expansions exist.

What systems does ff even have? I'm assuming you are alluding to character power and playing ff on and off for a couple years I don't ever remember "azerite" or "legendary" type systems.

Also IMO (please don't nerd rage ff community) getting new shit every expansion without bloat (like ff) is preferable to just another button or two every xpac that does the same thing as 3 of your other buttons.

I also assume you are talking about "content" IE dungeons and raids through the roulette system. Which is another conplaint i see quite often because if your a casual that doesn't raid like 90% of group content you lose all your abilities. It's not fun and just as much forced into it (tomestones/poetics) as anything wow has.

(Please for the love of god don't flip into the usual reeeeeee, im trying to have an actual discussion)

[Tenjen]

(Please for the love of god don't flip into the usual reeeeeee, im trying to have an actual discussion)

err yeaahh i'm not going to engage in any conversation at all with you. you're being hella weird.

just the video for reference from 7:23 onwards https://youtu.be/GvKEdWSFB9I?t=443