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  1. #741
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    The only thing I am enjoying is the crafting and gathering aspect. There are so many ways to level up crafting and gathering skills and it is satisfying too. Similarly, there are lots of contents for combat but the combat itself sucks ballz! I detest doing combat related stuff, so just doing crafting and gathering and it is good enough for me. I hope they do something about this shitfucked combat though, would love to see the story which everyone praises.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  2. #742
    Im desperately waiting for asmon reactions to the following:

    1. The 2.5 cut scenes.
    2. The 3.3 cut scene.
    3. The 4.0 mol scenario.

  3. #743
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Still jaded from the first version, so it is hard but for me, I am enjoying that I've found new friends who convinced me to try FFXIV again, helped having some discount codes to buy the game+expansions though I do still play World of Warcraft.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  4. #744
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    Story is good.

    All content even from past expansions remains relevant. Fact that Asmongold was not only able to find a group for ARR raids but also get a decent challenge out of them this late into the game's life cycle says a lot.

    Compare this to WoW where welfare epics and catch-up gear make every single piece of content except for the latest raid irrelevant. Where Timewalking is heavily and disgustingly under-utilized.
    Are you really comparing Asmongold's 100k viewerbase to solo ordinary person when it comes to making a group for old content?

    Your second point however is true about WoW definitely, but than again, in FFXIV there are no rewards for doing older content on min-ilvl either, so it's "irrelevant" as well, except for 30 min of challenge for first timers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    The only thing I am enjoying is the crafting and gathering aspect. There are so many ways to level up crafting and gathering skills and it is satisfying too. Similarly, there are lots of contents for combat but the combat itself sucks ballz! I detest doing combat related stuff, so just doing crafting and gathering and it is good enough for me. I hope they do something about this shitfucked combat though, would love to see the story which everyone praises.

    I like that there is a lot of stuff to do for crafting/gathering, although it's still a 1-79 slog making things purely for xp. It's like 99's in Runescape, only cool for show lmao and "scamming" people on Marketplace with HQ they need for a quest.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2021-07-27 at 12:39 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    I like that there is a lot of stuff to do for crafting/gathering, although it's still a 1-79 slog making things purely for xp. It's like 99's in Runescape, only cool for show lmao and "scamming" people on Marketplace with HQ they need for a quest.
    ...what

    Anyone else reading this, please don't listen to this guy. He has made up so much nonsense about crafting that it's clear he's never even actually done it.

  6. #746
    I legit don't have a clue how crafting is supposed to work, but my LW is only 21 or so

    I only ever use the basic button. No clue what the other 8 are for lol.

    I am finding even now, that you need gather materials even at this level (need a Mined item to make glamour prisms with LW for example). I'm guessing that this, then, is the money maker.

  7. #747
    Legit question, When do I stop being a refugee? Played for two months back in 2019 and started again when the free login campaign began.

    Anyway, always liked the game, but I felt more attached to WoW until recently, you know, sunk cost fallacy.

    What I enjoy the most atm, aside from doing the MSQ at my own pace, is potd. Being able to test new jobs while leveling them, while getting pets and glams, while also being able to spend the Aetherpool in a cool looking weapon.

    Almost done with SB, and before I start ShB, I'll rewatch ARR+HW as BLM with the AF70 Set for max aesthetic.

  8. #748
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    I legit don't have a clue how crafting is supposed to work, but my LW is only 21 or so

    I only ever use the basic button. No clue what the other 8 are for lol.

    I am finding even now, that you need gather materials even at this level (need a Mined item to make glamour prisms with LW for example). I'm guessing that this, then, is the money maker.
    The goal of the crafting minigame is to try to craft the highest quality item as possible. It's important to note, that you should not prioritize quality over completing the progress of an item. You should try to almost fill up the progress bar first, and then try to get the quality as high as possible. If you cannot get the quality all the filled up, that's okay, just be sure to finish off the progress before the item runs out durability.


    Example of the crafting process:




    We've started the crafting minigame. The first thing we are going to do is press the glowing ability Inner Quiet . This means that when we use abilities that improve the item's quality, we get a stacking buff that multiplies the quality increased. Note the number of the buff. That is the amount of stacks, and those stacks cap at 11. Later on, you can use an ability that will consume all of those stacks for a massive quality increase (basically a finisher).

    Now that we have the stacking quality buff, the next thing we need to do is to use Waste Not II . This will half the amount durability lost whenever we touch the item from 10 points lost to 5 points lost. Note the number on the buff: each time we touch the item, that number will decrease. Once it's gone, touching the item will remove 10 points of durability. We can recover the item's durability using another ability, but that ability is expensive, so it is more economical to try to reduce the amount of durability lost in the process.

    Now that we have both buffs up, we will press Basic Synthesis to improve the item's progress until we get a quality proc.




    I used one Basic Synthesis , and then thanks to RNG, I got a quality proc. Note that the condition is now "good". This means that if we use an ability that improves quality, the amount of quality increased will be greater than normal. For this turn, we will use Precise Touch .

    (In addition to improving the quality of the item, Precise Touch also gives us another stack of Inner Quiet (on top of the stack of inner quiet because we have the buff up), so we wind up getting two stacks of Inner Quiet . Note that we went from 3 stacks to 5 stacks. If you use a different Touch ability, it will only go up by 1 stack. Precise Touch is unlocked at level 53, so before then just use the cheapest touch ability you have).

    We improved the quality of the item. The condition went back to being normal, so for now I just spam Basic Synthesis until the RNG blesses me with improved condition.




    I've spammed Basic Synthesis 3 times in a row. The RNG hasn't been in my favor as the condition of the item is still normal, so I should keep using Basic Synthesis for now.




    Speak of the devil! I used Basic Synthesis one more time, and now thanks to RNG, the item's condition is now "excellent". This means that if I use a quality improving ability, the amount of quality increased will be massive. For this turn, we will use Precise Touch .

    After improving the quality of an item on an "excellent" condition turn, the condition of the item on the following turn will be "poor", which means that quality improvement is reduced by half. Do not spend CP on quality improving abilities during this turn, as that CP will be asted. You should either use Basic Synthesis to improve Progress, OR if you're almost completely done filling the progress bar, use Hasty Touch to give you another stack of Inner Quiet without spending CP.

    I then used a Basic Synthesis because the the condition was "normal".




    Uh oh. We have now run out of stacks of Waste Not II , meaning that if we use any more abilities on the item, we will lose item durability by 10 points. Before we reapply the Waste Not II buff, we should first bring up the item's durability by 30 points by using Master's Mend . Then we refresh the Waste Not II buff. (Note that in the pics, I made a mistake and refreshed the buff first, meaning that I wasted a stack. No biggie, though).




    At this point, I am almost done filling the progress bar. I won't use Basic Synthesis anymore because I don't want to accidentally complete the item. I can still upgrade the item's quality. However, I only have 56 CP left. I want to save that CP for my big quality finisher, Byregot's Blessing . So for now, I will just use Hasty Touch , which costs no CP.

    Once I fill the quality bar enough that Byregot's Blessing will finish off the quality bar, I will use that. Then I will use Basic Synthesis to complete the progress bar, finishing the item and completing the minigame.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-07-27 at 11:40 PM.

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  9. #749
    Thanks!!!........

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Garretdejiko View Post
    Legit question, When do I stop being a refugee? Played for two months back in 2019 and started again when the free login campaign began.

    Anyway, always liked the game, but I felt more attached to WoW until recently, you know, sunk cost fallacy.

    What I enjoy the most atm, aside from doing the MSQ at my own pace, is potd. Being able to test new jobs while leveling them, while getting pets and glams, while also being able to spend the Aetherpool in a cool looking weapon.

    Almost done with SB, and before I start ShB, I'll rewatch ARR+HW as BLM with the AF70 Set for max aesthetic.
    I'm 50ish on my main 3 jobs, dps/tank/heals and I've never seen potd, and know nothing about it.

    Maybe I should look into that.

  10. #750
    The more positive things compared to WoW in my opinion:

    - The high-level community seems to be much better than in WoW. Almost every high level char / non-sprout I was paired with in instances was super helpful. Reminds me of some old days in DaoC. However, i have a very different experience in low level out in the world and also in instances from other sprouts. Saying "hi" at the beginning or "thx, gg" at the end seems too much social interaction. And so many people just click on a quest item and leave the mobs that spawn (even if they're tabbed to them) to others, as long as they manage to lose aggro to another person. The latter is really common WoW outdoor behaviour. Lets see how the FF14 community develops, and if there will be more such bad apples staying there.

    - Personal gathering nodes (?): Not sure about this one, because I didn't do much, yet. But it seems, that gathering nodes are personal. Instead of running around and hoping to find nodes at all, or realm-hopping, you just go out into an area and gather away.

    - Many systems for the same thing: In WoW, you have a specific system for everything. I actually like that. However, in many cases, there are only very specific actions or very specific content related to that system, and very specific rewards tied to it. An example would be the legendary and Thorghast. In FF, you also have lots of systems. But the rewards are MUCH more spread across the board, which makes for an easier choise with which of these systems you want to engage - more based on what you want to do, less based on which rewards you want to get. The FF14 equivalent of it gives exp, so you can level secondary jobs, potions, a bit of gold, gems to socket and maybe even more at higher level (just checked the first few ones out yesterday). But outside of cosmetics, as far as I've seen, there is nothing that says: hey, you want a specific item / type of item? Well, you HAVE to do this one content.

    - Much more focused on the journey than the goal: In WoW, at least it seems, the journey got somehow lost. So many people there want to rush to max level, and do the activity that they somewhat enjoy and gives the most reward. The game seems to be designed around this type of playstyle. E.g. when I started in Shadowlands, I also replayed some of the BfA content for the story and the zones they implemented in the later patches. Some of my friends couldn't really understand why I'd spend my time with that instead of pushing my char for better gear in Shadowlands. FF14 has, as said, much more focus on the journey.

    There are others, but those come to mind right now. There are also things that FF14 does worse than WoW, imo, but that's not the topic of the thread.

    [e]
    One more point which I forgot: Free trial. They offer much less compared to some other MMOs for free, and in general I'd prefer a buy2play model. However, compared to WoW it's MUCH more extensive.
    Last edited by Frostfred; 2021-07-28 at 04:21 PM.

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    Thanks!!!........

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm 50ish on my main 3 jobs, dps/tank/heals and I've never seen potd, and know nothing about it.

    Maybe I should look into that.
    Definitely, running it can get old after a while, but testing (and leveling in the process) different jobs keeps the experience interesting. PotD is efficient until 60, after that you have HoH, the SB version of PotD. You unlock it by beating floor 50 in PotD and doing a short quest chain in The Ruby Sea.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Garretdejiko View Post
    Definitely, running it can get old after a while, but testing (and leveling in the process) different jobs keeps the experience interesting. PotD is efficient until 60, after that you have HoH, the SB version of PotD. You unlock it by beating floor 50 in PotD and doing a short quest chain in The Ruby Sea.
    What level does your job have to be to get into it? Also where ..... Is it? Heh.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    What level does your job have to be to get into it? Also where ..... Is it? Heh.
    Here's the website with all of the questions answered for when, where and how to access it.

    https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...e/deepdungeon/

    Quicker, and probably more helpful, than me typing it out.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Here's the website with all of the questions answered for when, where and how to access it.

    https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...e/deepdungeon/

    Quicker, and probably more helpful, than me typing it out.
    Ty very much!

  15. #755
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    ...what

    Anyone else reading this, please don't listen to this guy. He has made up so much nonsense about crafting that it's clear he's never even actually done it.
    you're the infiltrator

    what do you make 1-79 that is actually useable that people care that's vastly more diverse than say WoW consumables? nothing, only at 80 like I said do people possibly care FFXIV is no means bad but it's the same fundamental system design that WoW has, nothing like a true economy or sandbox. Most stuff 1-79 is just empty market/2 re-listers and 1-2 HQ items that people use to scam people for quick quest finish. I just recently did it all again on a preferred server.

    that's my critique bro, this game has no economy or crafting like albion, eve, uoo etc. It's fine, but not amazing like people keep saying.

    in fact, craft so bad pre 80, that people just do restoration LMAO

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    I legit don't have a clue how crafting is supposed to work, but my LW is only 21 or so

    I only ever use the basic button. No clue what the other 8 are for lol.

    I am finding even now, that you need gather materials even at this level (need a Mined item to make glamour prisms with LW for example). I'm guessing that this, then, is the money maker.
    Glamour prisms sell for 250gil each, it's worthless.

    Everyone can gather, so material costs are way down, except for some specifics -- usually in materials that people want to use to power level their crafting or HQ item ppl need for quest.

    Running around the world gathering 5-6 unique items for a single craft is super inefficient, just farm out one item and re-craft it 100 times with an automatic macro while you are half-afk watching Netflix (Don't use quick synthesis) u can get 1-60 in a few hours with preferred server and starting on fresh account with zero balance or investment, at 50 or so you can do levequests which are so broken you can get 50-60 in 10 minutes.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2021-07-29 at 12:19 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    you're the infiltrator

    what do you make 1-79 that is actually useable that people care that's vastly more diverse than say WoW consumables? nothing,
    Completely false.

    Every character being able to be every job means some people are still levelling and want/need low level gear. Stuff that's crafted from 1-79 is still usable and desirable for glamour, needed for other recipes, wanted as housing items, needed for quests, etc... It's hardly worthless.

    only at 80 like I said do people possibly care
    Unless you're saying people will rush to 80 and only then care about crafting level 1-79 recipes, this statement isn't accurate.

    FFXIV is no means bad but it's the same fundamental system design that WoW has, nothing like a true economy or sandbox.
    What do you mean by "true" economy or sandbox (sandbox in the context of crafting, anyway)

    Most stuff 1-79 is just empty market/2 re-listers and 1-2 HQ items that people use to scam people for quick quest finish. I just recently did it all again on a preferred server.
    Then you're not paying attention, or have blinders on.

    that's my critique bro, this game has no economy or crafting like albion, eve, uoo etc. It's fine, but not amazing like people keep saying.
    The crafting mini game is what I see people praise most of the time, not how crafting fits into the meta of the game.

    in fact, craft so bad pre 80, that people just do restoration LMAO
    Because it's an easy way to level up. It's not really a huge revelation that people want to spend as little time as possible leveling/ get there with as little effort as possible. Your point was that there's no value in the crafting unless it's max level which is false, that doesn't mean people will purposely stay low level.

    Glamour prisms sell for 250gil each, it's worthless.
    Hardly. Does it make as much money as other stuff? No, but given how many and how often people use glamour, the sole material used to do is is HARDLY worthless.

    Everyone can gather, so material costs are way down, except for some specifics -- usually in materials that people want to use to power level their crafting or HQ item ppl need for quest.
    True, but this is the same in any game where you can gather materials. The plentiful ones are cheap, the rarer, more unique ones are more expensive. That's supply and demand, which is a hallmark of an actual economy.

    Running around the world gathering 5-6 unique items for a single craft is super inefficient, just farm out one item and re-craft it 100 times with an automatic macro while you are half-afk watching Netflix (Don't use quick synthesis) u can get 1-60 in a few hours with preferred server and starting on fresh account with zero balance or investment, at 50 or so you can do levequests which are so broken you can get 50-60 in 10 minutes.
    Yeah, this is true.

  17. #757
    Pandaren Monk The Casualty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Hardly. Does it make as much money as other stuff? No, but given how many and how often people use glamour, the sole material used to do is is HARDLY worthless.
    An anecdote, I know, but an FC-mate made absolutely ridiculous amounts of money just by selling glamour prisms.

    Personally, I make lower level items at specific brackets when I notice a void in the market. Especially jewelry, because there are so many variations with similar material requirements. Buy the materials for an assortment of 20-30 rings/necklaces/bracelets (or use whatever materials your retainers have been stockpiling for you) and chuck 'em up there. The only thing I don't make is earrings. I don't know if they sell, but I feel like it's so easy to get the expansion earrings that I don't want to risk it when the rest sell so well. The last batch was for 50k a pop and took all of 5 minutes of my time.

    That or go the housing route and sell housing items or precursor materials like cut stone and mortar. Housing upgrades require those in spades and are always in demand.

    Neither of which require max level.

    And you are so right - People do Ishgard foundation stuff because it nets the quickest EXP so you can more easily do the crafts that make money.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    you're the infiltrator

    what do you make 1-79 that is actually useable that people care that's vastly more diverse than say WoW consumables? nothing, only at 80 like I said do people possibly care FFXIV is no means bad but it's the same fundamental system design that WoW has, nothing like a true economy or sandbox. Most stuff 1-79 is just empty market/2 re-listers and 1-2 HQ items that people use to scam people for quick quest finish. I just recently did it all again on a preferred server.

    that's my critique bro, this game has no economy or crafting like albion, eve, uoo etc. It's fine, but not amazing like people keep saying.

    in fact, craft so bad pre 80, that people just do restoration LMAO
    There are plenty of systems in the game that make the economy perfectly fine and I'll posit even better than WoW. Leveling your Desynth that will raise the chance of you getting better mats back from Desynth. Turn ins to your Grand Company which raises your rank which allows you to purchase more different mats that play into other systems AND also needed for purchasing property. For spirit bonding older gear which is needed for obtaining old materia which is a necessity if you're looking to min/max gathers and crafters as well as for a part of the 2.0 relic quest line. Glam for yourself and glams for the weekly Gold Saucer fashion report which can net you a free 10k - 40k MGP every week.

    But yeah.. totes useless. Granted I will admit there is some bloat in some regards.

    As to the leveling a crafter comment, people are naturally going to go the path of least resistance. Leveling crafter without Ishgard was fine, it took patience sure, but needing patience does not make the content bad.

    Glamour prisms sell for 250gil each, it's worthless.
    Fucking lul. Eleven slots that can be glam'ed (transmog) per character and 10k - 20k per server; if not more, you're looking at 2.5 - 5 million or more gil, but hey it's worthless.

    Is it going to make you rich over night, no, but it's a far cry from being worthless.
    Last edited by Yzak; 2021-07-29 at 06:34 PM.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

  19. #759
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Completely false.

    Every character being able to be every job means some people are still levelling and want/need low level gear. Stuff that's crafted from 1-79 is still usable and desirable for glamour, needed for other recipes, wanted as housing items, needed for quests, etc... It's hardly worthless.
    A lie. Why would anyone buy gear pre 80? Why? It makes zero sense. 1-50 is easy mode dungeon spam. At 50, 60 and so forth you get full sets of gear for free from your Class quests. Even if you don't even realize this is happening, you get poetics to ease your grind. People who are buying things (sets) are far and few between.

    I already mentioned the stuff required for other recipes / quests. The market is barren, except for 1-2 listers who have the HQ items at insane prices because they know people want to skip the quest and want to scam them. I bought every HQ quest item myself because making things is a inefficient waste of time, for every DoH job quest, the amount of listings is like 2. It's pathetic.


    Unless you're saying people will rush to 80 and only then care about crafting level 1-79 recipes, this statement isn't accurate.
    No. I'm saying that only things at 80 are worth investing time into. 1-79 is useless. People powerlevel past everything, don't care about making anything of use in order to get to 80 ASAP. Nobody is making anything except turn ins and refining 200 xyz with macro on their way to 80, as there is nothing actually 'interesting' to make.



    What do you mean by "true" economy or sandbox (sandbox in the context of crafting, anyway)
    Uhh this takes time to explain.

    Games like EVE and Albion have a fully integrated supply and demand system.

    Items are made and they are lost (by pve death, pvp death, degrade, on-use - does not matter method, only result) which in game design term is probably called something like "Item Recycling".

    This takes items OUT of the economy. Therefore, everything from tier 1-8, in the case of Albion, is worth-while for a crafter to make and that pushes down so that gatherers are viable. Things don't get 'invalidated' by the progress of time. The item recycling stimulates the demand for crafters and so forth.

    For example; Imagine every item in FFXIV was relevant to make, forever. Needed by someone, somewhere. It doesn't matter even if it was level 20 item... it would be equipped and used by someone because of x-y-z reasons. Items aren't invalidated by levels or introduction of 'new' items. Mythrite or Titanium equipment would be sold in just as many quantities as... Exarchic or whatever... if not even more for above x-y-z reasons (x-y-z reasons exist... but irrelevant to this discussion to explain)

    Simulating demand in traditional games via transmog, power leveling and special items (Mount? Toy? Pet?) is not enough for a good crafting experience or economy. What ends up happening is 90% of items are fluff.

    The idea of power leveling itself is some evidence of a fail really. By implication of its existence it is stating that everything before desired 'level' is much less value and a worthless time investment in the context of crafting and economy. This is a much more interesting discussion though and requires a separate dialogue.






    The crafting mini game is what I see people praise most of the time, not how crafting fits into the meta of the game.
    Well that's ok, I praise it too. It's quite 'good' even with boring afk-macros. However, this is not part that draws out the shills to my posts, they tell me that every aspect of FFXIV economy and crafting is god like, which is false.

    I completely expect these people to also think New World is amazing economy because the trees fall over and it looks pretty.




    Because it's an easy way to level up. It's not really a huge revelation that people want to spend as little time as possible leveling/ get there with as little effort as possible. Your point was that there's no value in the crafting unless it's max level which is false, that doesn't mean people will purposely stay low level.
    Irrelevant. Don't even know what to reply to this.


    Hardly. Does it make as much money as other stuff? No, but given how many and how often people use glamour, the sole material used to do is is HARDLY worthless.
    Do u even read context or who I am reply too? Your whole tail-end here is irrelevant.


    True, but this is the same in any game where you can gather materials. The plentiful ones are cheap, the rarer, more unique ones are more expensive. That's supply and demand, which is a hallmark of an actual economy.
    The S&D system is not fully implemented. The demand in this game is very limited to certain things that are, well, feel artificial. You don't make things to be 'used' in a way a crafter would in a proper universe, only to power level for sake of character sheet or things at 80.

    An equivalent example would be Prunescape.

    People buy steel bars (the demand you mention) to smith 9000 plate bodies not because the plate body is something interesting or valuable, but because it is artificial to get 99 smithing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    There are plenty of systems in the game that make the economy perfectly fine and I'll posit even better than WoW. Leveling your Desynth that will raise the chance of you getting better mats back from Desynth. Turn ins to your Grand Company which raises your rank which allows you to purchase more different mats that play into other systems AND also needed for purchasing property. For spirit bonding older gear which is needed for obtaining old materia which is a necessity if you're looking to min/max gathers and crafters as well as for a part of the 2.0 relic quest line. Glam for yourself and glams for the weekly Gold Saucer fashion report which can net you a free 10k - 40k MGP every week.

    But yeah.. totes useless. Granted I will admit there is some bloat in some regards.
    I never said WoW was good either. It is probably the worst of the worst when it comes to professions. Not only is the execution of items terrible (what happens to them, what they used for) but the method of gathering and crafting is boring and lame.

    You only need to dye 2 piece of gear and buy a 2gil item (90% of time) for 80 FR pts lmao. ezpz. Pray to gods that if you want 100, the other junk is on a vendor that takes 2 min to farm gil for.


    As to the leveling a crafter comment, people are naturally going to go the path of least resistance. Leveling crafter without Ishgard was fine, it took patience sure, but needing patience does not make the content bad.
    The implication that people want p level at all for crafting power basically red-letter stamps that everything pre 80 is a much less efficient and wasteful. This is not the case in games with proper economy or crafting system like AB or EVE.

    This however, would require more discussion as it is something that goes over people's heads as they don't even know what a decent supply and demand or economy looks like.



    Fucking lul. Eleven slots that can be glam'ed (transmog) per character and 10k - 20k per server; if not more, you're looking at 2.5 - 5 million or more gil, but hey it's worthless.

    Is it going to make you rich over night, no, but it's a far cry from being worthless.
    I only said it was worthless in terms of its time investment for profit. There are things that are much easier and take less time that make more money, this is sign of failure.

    Although, to be fair, most games make very similar mistake as balancing 'skill / effort / time' for content profit valuation is very, very hard (e.g bossing makes more profit than gathering, but gathering is no risk). But, at least they don't make their own professions cannibilize each other. (why spend 1 hour hitting x rock when y rock is 10x profit???)
    Last edited by Daffan; 2021-07-29 at 08:11 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    A lie. Why would anyone buy gear pre 80? Why? It makes zero sense.
    Because quests, dungeons, trials, etc... still require you to have a decent set of gear?

    You're delusional if you think no one does it. Does everyone? No, but saying that all that gear is completely useless is flatly inaccurate.

    1-50 is easy mode dungeon spam.
    Uh...no, it's not. This is so wildly off base I can't even believe you're claiming you actually played this game.

    At 50, 60 and so forth you get full sets of gear for free from your Class quests.
    Yeah AT 50, so what about the gear form 1-50? You seriously saying you wear the starter gear all the way from 1-50? Or that you only use the quest rewards you for questing? What about jobs you level afterwards that you don't have quest rewards for?

    Even if you don't even realize this is happening, you get poetics to ease your grind. People who are buying things (sets) are far and few between.
    So you admit that people DO buy it? Just that it's few?

    I already mentioned the stuff required for other recipes / quests. The market is barren, except for 1-2 listers who have the HQ items at insane prices because they know people want to skip the quest and want to scam them. I bought every HQ quest item myself because making things is a inefficient waste of time, for every DoH job quest, the amount of listings is like 2. It's pathetic.
    Which market? Because this is not true for every market, nor is it true all the time. It's also dependent on what server you're on.

    No. I'm saying that only things at 80 are worth investing time into. 1-79 is useless. People powerlevel past everything, don't care about making anything of use in order to get to 80 ASAP. Nobody is making anything except turn ins and refining 200 xyz with macro on their way to 80, as there is nothing actually 'interesting' to make.
    I would agree that this is largely true, depending on the person. If it's easy to get to 80, why would you spend more time than absolutely necessary at anything 1-79? Once there they can craft anything from 1-80 that they want (and that they have the gear/ stats to actually make)

    Uhh this takes time to explain.

    Games like EVE and Albion have a fully integrated supply and demand system.

    Items are made and they are lost (by pve death, pvp death, degrade, on-use - does not matter method, only result) which in game design term is probably called something like "Item Recycling".

    This takes items OUT of the economy. Therefore, everything from tier 1-8, in the case of Albion, is worth-while for a crafter to make and that pushes down so that gatherers are viable. Things don't get 'invalidated' by the progress of time. The item recycling stimulates the demand for crafters and so forth.

    For example; Imagine every item in FFXIV was relevant to make, forever. Needed by someone, somewhere. It doesn't matter even if it was level 20 item... it would be equipped and used by someone because of x-y-z reasons. Items aren't invalidated by levels or introduction of 'new' items. Mythrite or Titanium equipment would be sold in just as many quantities as... Exarchic or whatever... if not even more for above x-y-z reasons (x-y-z reasons exist... but irrelevant to this discussion to explain)

    Simulating demand in traditional games via transmog, power leveling and special items (Mount? Toy? Pet?) is not enough for a good crafting experience or economy. What ends up happening is 90% of items are fluff.

    The idea of power leveling itself is some evidence of a fail really. By implication of its existence it is stating that everything before desired 'level' is much less value and a worthless time investment in the context of crafting and economy. This is a much more interesting discussion though and requires a separate dialogue.
    OK, now I get where you're coming from. I still disagree that the items are "worthless" but completely understand why you would feel that it's not worth your time in comparison to those other games.

    Well that's ok, I praise it too. It's quite 'good' even with boring afk-macros. However, this is not part that draws out the shills to my posts, they tell me that every aspect of FFXIV economy and crafting is god like, which is false.
    OK, I can agree with that. I don't think it's copmletely false though, but certainly not some super amazing ground breaking thing either.

    I
    rrelevant. Don't even know what to reply to this.
    Now that I know the context of what you were saying I agree this wouldn't make sense. Disregard.

    Do u even read context or who I am reply too? Your whole tail-end here is irrelevant.
    You said glamour prisms are worthless. That's all I'm replying to. They're not worthless is my point.

    The S&D system is not fully implemented. The demand in this game is very limited to certain things that are, well, feel artificial. You don't make things to be 'used' in a way a crafter would in a proper universe, only to power level for sake of character sheet or things at 80.

    An equivalent example would be Prunescape.

    People buy steel bars (the demand you mention) to smith 9000 plate bodies not because the plate body is something interesting or valuable, but because it is artificial to get 99 smithing.
    How and why an item are in demand is irrelevant to the fact that it IS in demand. Call it artificial if you want, but the fact is that the demand is there.

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