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  1. #821
    For me the big difference between the two games is how much I want to play.

    If I'm enjoying the game it's reflected in how much I play. In WoW my friend and I do our dailies then I log off.

    My problem with FF14 is: will this chunk of time be enough?

  2. #822
    I was, and still am, WoW player for almost 17years now (since day1 of EU servers) and i dont believe that i will ever stop playing WoW.
    First and foremost im playing it for the social aspect - A LOT of people that i met trough my life are in WoW, some crazy friendships and even crazier e-romances happened there and good bunch of them is scattered all over the world.
    Next is instanced content. And in downtime i occasionally hunt for transmog pieces that i want to have in collection.

    However, for last 2-3years WoW is no longer my "daily driver" not only for me, but also for my friends.
    We are migrating from game to game, GW2, FF14, ESO.. in each game each of us finds something interesting and we are now divided in smaller groups across the games that we play, but again keep tight via Discord.

    Im more of occasional FF14 player, im more migrating between ESO, GW2 and, recently, New World (which looks like it will finally be "place to call home" for whole band of friends) so my opinion maybe wont be on point, nor that much relevant for FF14 topic it self.

    In FF14 i can play completely different "Job" class just by pressing a button. Has housing, intricate crafting and great community.
    In GW2 my attacks change depending on weapon that i use. Well.. it has.. Its GW2 and classes are fun in it! Also Fashion Wars.
    In ESO i dont even have to have ANY class abilities on my bars... ESO is literally merge, for me, best parts of above two games into one. Housing, fun crafting and quite good community.
    In New World youre just a human. As human you learn to use different weapons with different skills. Crafting and gathering is super fun, havent tried housing yet, and there quite nice endgame. Imf however i MUST state that game it self need more baking time, its a excellent base and good foundation to build upon, it just needs a bit of polish and more content.

    In WoW you are just a rogue, a warrior, a priest. You are just ONE thing and ONE thing only, that doesnt change much no matter how you play your class.
    With all transmog limitations put in place, crafting not being relevant as much (or all together tbh) only "hooks" are mythic dungeons are nicely designed raids.
    In addition.. WoW story is all over the place to the point that i feel completely disconnected from my character. Its no longer "my avatar in that world" its just frame which i use to play the game.

    Thing that i learned while playing all these MMOs is.. wow.. WoW it self is WAST, BIG place and theres ALWAYS something to do in it due to sheer amount of content that it has, HOWEVER man, its such a limiting game not only in character advancement, progression and growth but also in the feel of making progress it self. There is always something that you need to grind to unlock/level in order to be able to more effectively grind other content to unlock/level something in addition to something else in order to upgrade your shiny legendary that will probably be balanced out of meta next patch.
    With all the borrowed power systems that are constantly and intentionally time gated to prolong longevity of the content WoW feels more like a chore and less like "daily driver," a game that i enjoy spending time in for few hours (after all fatherly/husbandly things are done).

    And shards of domination... shiny, most recent, example how much game Devs and Lead are disconnected from community and dont give 2c about any feedback pushing trough with their "Bioware magic" mentality.

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    - Takes 60 levels before combat isn't boring: Wrong again, the real game starts after level 20 in MSQ. Once you get here, you have everything you need, from Mount to Retailers and INN + the ability to travel everywhere. flying is unlocked at 60, but you really dont need it at lower levels, you just need to teleport anywhere you need. After level 60, you get into Heavesward and the story is what it gets better.

    - You slide around when you use any animation, alot of the animations suck: Nop, If WoW actually have half of these animations, my character in WoW would actually look far more better than just a robot. Even in ElderScrolls Online, you are able to unlock personalities, WoW on the other hand, has really poor and old animations that no longer fits today standards.
    Your first rebuttal literally has nothing to do with what the poster said. He said it takes 60 levels for combat not to be boring. He really isn't wrong. A lot of jobs play AWFULLY before level 50, and some even worse until 60.

    Your second point is also wrong. You absolutely slide around while using animations and it's jarring to look at even as a veteran who's been playing for almost 8 years. Do "a lot" of the animations suck? That's his opinion, and I don't share it. Rather than try and act all high and mighty and say he's wrong, ask for specific examples and why they feel that they suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    And how hard is to get into level 30?....Not at all!. Is super easy to get to level 30, they even give you a ring with +30% experience to help you on that + food xp bonus.
    People dont get it, that you level super fast on this game. All the time during my time doing MSQ, i was ahead of the level requirement for the quest.
    Gameplay at level 30 still sucks. It does get better, but still sucks. Gameplay at SB+ is usually pretty solid though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    If you dont like the game, then dont move into the game, simple as that.
    How would they know if they don't like the game without trying it? I hate to use Asmongold as an example, but he regularly ragged on the game in the past, and he's thoroughly enjoying it now that he's trying it. He has gripes and complaints like we all do, but he's surprisingly level headed and fair about them and he's earned an iota of respect from me for it.

    Instead of gatekeeping, dial the zealotry down a few degrees and participate in the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Seeing some of the things players come up with is fun in terms of cosplays. Did one of Kite from .Hack for Halloween last year.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...002046_685.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...002147_264.png
    Legitimately impressed with this. Nice work man. The detail is on point.

  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    For real, fuck Asmongold. I didnt start playing this game because of him. I started playing FF14 because its the best of all MMO's out there. ElderScrolls Online pales vs FF14. I had to give it a try, and so far, it has been amazing.

    I dont know where is the "all Class/Jobs" sucks at lower level thing.....but WoW is even worst. Under 60 is still noob level, what is the surprise about it?. You havent unlocked all your abilities yet. So i dont get it why the complains you posted.

    The game that is actually sucking at endgame is WoW Shadowlands, I still have to reach max level in order to tell you about FF14 content, but so far FF14 has been amazing. And the main problem with people here "Complaining" about FF14, is that they want World of Warcraft 2.0 and the game is not that (Thanks god its not).
    None of this is really a counterpoint, though. It's just all the usual talking points about how WoW is bad and complainers should just go back.

    XIV gameplay at low levels is exceedingly lackluster. It doesn't need to be qualified with anything, nor does whataboutism change it. It's just how it is.

  5. #825
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    I dont know where is the "all Class/Jobs" sucks at lower level thing.....but WoW is even worst. Under 60 is still noob level, what is the surprise about it?. You havent unlocked all your abilities yet. So i dont get it why the complains you posted.
    You can go from 10 to 50 in 10-15 hours levelling through any expansion after Cata. You can get to 50 in 4 hours if you do an extremely efficient levelling path. Shadowlands 50-60 questing content is 10 hours. So in the span of 14 to 20/25 hours, you can get to max level and have all of your fun class mechanics unlocked and actually start using them in dungeons and raids. Whereas in FFXIV, even if you do the most efficient playthrough possible, you're not going to be using your fun class mechanics until at least 200+ hours into the game. WoW classes become fun to play in 10% of the time it takes for FFXIV classes become fun to play.

  6. #826
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    You can go from 10 to 50 in 10-15 hours levelling through any expansion after Cata. You can get to 50 in 4 hours if you do an extremely efficient levelling path. Shadowlands 50-60 questing content is 10 hours. So in the span of 14 to 20/25 hours, you can get to max level and have all of your fun class mechanics unlocked and actually start using them in dungeons and raids. Whereas in FFXIV, even if you do the most efficient playthrough possible, you're not going to be using your fun class mechanics until at least 200+ hours into the game. WoW classes become fun to play in 10% of the time it takes for FFXIV classes become fun to play.
    What's amazing about your comment is that WoW has convinced you that less content is better. That's effectively your point: "FF14 has 200 hours of leveling content! WoW has 10 hours of leveling content! WoW rocks!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    None of this is really a counterpoint, though. It's just all the usual talking points about how WoW is bad and complainers should just go back.

    XIV gameplay at low levels is exceedingly lackluster. It doesn't need to be qualified with anything, nor does whataboutism change it. It's just how it is.
    FF14 is simple at low levels. Lackluster is a loaded phrase. Whether this is good or bad is entirely subjective. As someone with tons of MMO experience, it was quite a bit of a slog for me. However, for a couple of my friends that had never played MMOs there wasn't an issue to notice. Juxtapose this against WoW. When my wife tried WoW she was so overwhelmed with abilities a half an hour into the game that she was completely turned off and quit.

    So, this is entirely situational and people need to stop acting like its an objective downside to FF.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #827
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    What's amazing about your comment is that WoW has convinced you that less content is better. That's effectively your point: "FF14 has 200 hours of leveling content! WoW has 10 hours of leveling content! WoW rocks!"
    Nice strawman. I never made any comment about the amount of content. The question was about how long do people have to play their game before their class becomes fun.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Nice strawman. I never made any comment about the amount of content. The question was about how long do people have to play their game before their class becomes fun.
    Correction: Becomes fun *for you*.

    I'm not sure if it would feel great in FF to have your full kit at level 30 and then have 50 more levels and dozens of hours of no new abilities.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  9. #829
    I've recently started down the DoH/DoL rabbit hole. I thought I'd just level Leather working to get all the skins out of my bag...

    Suffice to say with the interconnected nature of gathering and crafting jobs I'm now leveling them all.

    I've got 3 combat jobs at 50 and I'm just taking a msq break to level gathering and crafting. I'm sure I'm horribly inefficient but it doesn't really matter, which I think is great.

    Also starting the GC party minigame, which I've heard rumors is required at some point in the msq.

    2 things I wish for:
    Better inventory management and crafting from any inventory, like saddlebag or retainer.

    Wow's UI functionality. I'm sure it's taboo to say but if this game had wows UI it'd be the perfect game for me personally.

  10. #830
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Good story and fun gameplay aren't two mutually exclusive things.

  11. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The question was about how long do people have to play their game before their class becomes fun.
    That's impossible to answer since "fun" is subjective. How long does it take in Fallout 4 until your character becomes "fun"? How long does it take in any RPG before you've built up your character to the point that it's fun and then what do you do?

  12. #832
    I love how vehemently people will argue against a simple thing like, "Can we make it better?" for no other reason than, "It can't be that way. Why? Because it's not that way now." out of some kind of twisted desire to defend a game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    I dont see any problem with the gameplay so far. Now if people want WoW 2.0 in FF14, they are going to be extremely disappointed. Many of the points that are critic toward FF14, is more like "FF14 is not WoW in terms of gameplay, and because of that, I dont like it".

    I think the main point of FF14, is the MSQ. Is the very spine of what the game is. IF you dont like it, if you are skipping all the dialog and cutscenes.....you better play another game then.

    Is just that everyone is looking for something different on MMO games. For me, what i have found out so far in FF14, is fun enough to keep me playing the game.
    Again, you're not even answering the things you quote. You just quote something and then go off on a tangent about "Go back to WoW".

    (Also, what's with the kinda unbelievable heel-face turn you did here?)

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    For real, fuck Asmongold. I didnt start playing this game because of him. I started playing FF14 because its the best of all MMO's out there.
    I never said you did so I don't know why you feel the need to mention this. You also didn't actually answer my question. How is a player supposed to know FF14 isn't for them if they don't try it?

    I dont know where is the "all Class/Jobs" sucks at lower level thing.....but WoW is even worst. Under 60 is still noob level, what is the surprise about it?. You havent unlocked all your abilities yet. So i dont get it why the complains you posted.
    Val already answered this ands covered it, but I'll add some more. WoW gives you a huge portion of your kit at level 10 when you pick your spec. That's dramatically different than FF14's ability accrual methodology. Very subjective which is better, per @NineSpine's comment earlier, but it's easy to see why there's a rift.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    The MSQ is part of the problem + the experience needed. But still, i have seen players with more than 1 job/class at max level. So its not really that impossible to get as soon as possible to max level.
    Of course you've seen players with more than 1 job at max level, some of us have been playing the game for almost 8 years lol.

    I'm missing something by not being at Max level?
    Yes, significantly more interesting combat and job design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    That's impossible to answer since "fun" is subjective. How long does it take in Fallout 4 until your character becomes "fun"? How long does it take in any RPG before you've built up your character to the point that it's fun and then what do you do?
    While it's certainly subjective, the fact that it's a common point (jobs are boring till above 50, wait till later when you get your whole kit or man I hate getting Sashtasha I only have 1 button this sucks, etc) that is brought up frequently across all forms of feedback/media. I wouldn't say it's impossible, it's pretty widely accepted it gets more fun at higher level, therefore it's not impossible to answer, but you can say, XYZ expansion onward as a general rule of thumb and be right more often than not.

  14. #834
    Warchief vsb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    What's amazing about your comment is that WoW has convinced you that less content is better. That's effectively your point: "FF14 has 200 hours of leveling content! WoW has 10 hours of leveling content! WoW rocks!"
    Last time I leveled my toon in WoW, it took me 2 years to get to max level, by completing every quest in game. 10 hours is a theoretical possibility, you have a choice between 10 hours and 10 000 hours in WoW.

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    Last time I leveled my toon in WoW, it took me 2 years to get to max level, by completing every quest in game. 10 hours is a theoretical possibility, you have a choice between 10 hours and 10 000 hours in WoW.
    You hit max in wow long before you ever do every quest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Good story and fun gameplay aren't two mutually exclusive things.
    "Its taking me too long to get the full gameplay I want because there is all this story in the way" is a critique that undermines your argument.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  16. #836
    Pit Lord Omians's Avatar
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    I was on and off of 14 for years as it wasn't really keeping my attention until i pushed my way to 50 last month and beat the Ultima weapon then it started picking up for me. Finished up the MSQ of heavensward and moved over to stormblood. Really enjoying the Scenery that is Kugane. I also took some time to go and unlock Alexander as i had listened to the fight music some time ago and really enjoyed it. Metal and Brute justice slaps and has alot of a different feel when fighting with its music instead of just listening.
    Last edited by Omians; 2021-08-06 at 09:24 PM.
    Omians- 60 Troll Enhancement shaman, Emerald Dream

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    Last time I leveled my toon in WoW, it took me 2 years to get to max level, by completing every quest in game. 10 hours is a theoretical possibility, you have a choice between 10 hours and 10 000 hours in WoW.
    Not really anymore, unless you count being afk, offline or city shenanigans as time spent towards leveling (which you shouldn't IMO as you're not TRYING to level during this time). Like, driving from one city to another that are actually only 1 hour apart, yet say it takes you 3 because you stopped at a restaurant on the way and spent ~2 hours there. That's not how it works.

  18. #838
    Wait... how the hell did i end up in the crystarium? I get super drunk playing this game because im 1. An alcoholic. and 2. I hate queueing for dungeons and trials as a healer; i hate responsibility in parties, (and playing with other people). Here's what i remember (stormblood 4.5 spoilers): I was fighting zenos. He was about to kill me. Something happened. I woke up in bed. Count fortemps said hi. I was sent off on a quest to the crystal tower. I picked up something. "Now i got you!" I was in some trippy forest. Some French accented bunny girl said hi. I was granted permission to visit this city. Im now running about it like its normal... Hey! there's the crystal tower!... Hang on? Whats going on? Dont tell me of course. But its such a weird trip. I feel like i must have missed something. If i have, please tell me. As far as im concerned im unconscious in eorzea having picked up some relic. And im now dreaming this. But i cant be, because theres all these bunnies running about in Limsa... Fairies are pretty intense, yo!

    Point is, im so confused and intrigued.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-07 at 11:10 PM.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrick View Post
    Yeah, right. So you managed to hit level 60 without playing with other players or what makes you feel that way?
    How can this be a good single player game?
    I did play with others but they were hardly engaging, do a ff version of a dungeon no one talks done, asked stuff in general, nothing, looked for groups for content, nothing, you can do most everything solo and the game is filled with story, too much of it but thats a personal opinion, i also id not like the story which is personal and not a reflection of the story itself, never liked the weeabo midget cute races, again just opinion and not a reflection of the quality if the game itself, I played dragoon and did not particually enjoy it, maybe it was the class not sure.

    Overall it was just not enjoyable to me, perhaps I need to simply play if differently to how I did.

  20. #840
    Pit Lord Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    I was fighting zenos. He was about to kill me. Something happened.
    that was the crystal exarch summoning you to the first...

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