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  1. #941
    Mechagnome Akta's Avatar
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    the only superior thing is that one character is able to play all jobs/classes. I also like the little social things everything else is just not good at all.
    ...Le Poète est semblable au prince des nuées
    Qui hante la tempête e se rit de l'archer;
    Exilé sul le sol au milieu des huées,
    Ses ailes de géant l'empêchent de marcher.

    Charles Baudelaire

  2. #942
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    To this day, I don't see how anyone can say WoW's combat is fluid. The combat of FFXIV just feels more rewarding because I'm not standing in place and pushing the same 2-3 buttons over and over. Positioning matters and standing still can often get you killed in FFXIV. The combat just feels more alive in FFXIV than it ever did in WoW, in my eyes.
    Unless you're a healer. In which case, you're generally standing still pressing the same 2 buttons almost exclusively every single GCD (assuming you're a good healer).

    Positioning matters in both games. Optimization in both games dictates as LITTLE movement as possible. You're not doing crazy movement things to manage uptime as a melee or a tank. You're standing max melee range, and shifting a handful of pixels to trigger flank/rear bonuses. You hit a GCD, back up, and then come back in while your GCD ticks for telegraphs. It's not some crazy amount of movement lol.

    WoW's combat, much like the player you quoted described felt more fluid because there's no arbitrary lag built in and a weird desync between the game and the animation. These are not subjective opinions. These are facts. There is inherent lag protection built in, and if you're on a good connection, it doesn't help you, it hurts you and feels janky and the animation desync isn't subjective either. Cast and ability and move and you slide around all silly nilly.

    Do these things MATTER? Now that's subjective and certainly up for debate, but their existence is not subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    It really is. What people seem to miss is that WoW has a GCD on nearly every ability in the game (aside from some long cooldown buffs). While in FF14, only your damage combo abilities trigger a GCD. You can use pretty much every one of your stuns, interrupts, defense, buffs, sprint, other utilities, etc. without triggering a GCD, plus some off GCD damage attacks too. Moreover, WoW usually has 4 out of 5 rotational abilities on each class that have short cooldowns on them on top of the GCD (3 second, 5 second, 15 sec, etc.), while FF14 just has the GCD for every rotation ability. Rotations in FF14 are built by comboing attacks together, like warriors, or using them in alternating patterns, like black mages.

    All of this adds up to combat actually feeling faster in FF14 than WoW, because in WoW you are waiting for more GCDs on more abilities (even if they are shorter) and waiting for short cooldown rotation abilities to come off cooldown. Not to mention the amount of movement and dodging telegraphs required for even melee classes in FF14, making it all very active all the time. Combat feels energetic in FF14 and not sluggish like WoW.
    Trust me, WoW players realize just fine that there are oGCDs and GCDs. They know how to weave them to a reasonable degree (i.e. not optimized). Even with these caveats, FF14 is still undeniably slower than WoW. Does this matter? That's again subjective and worth discussing, but the pacing itself is not subjective, it's mathematically proven to be slower.

    WoW's combat has plenty of problems, but sluggishness isn't one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Fast doesn't equal good either. Let's say you have a 1 second GCD in your game but only a single ability. It would be faster than both WoW and FFXIV but boring as hell and not at all engaging. Not to talk about injuries to your hands over time.

    WoW is more towards that, some classes are very brain dead and spammy, others are really good primarily the casters.
    FFXIV jobs are all engaging. Some are badly designed sure but they're never boring.
    This is a good point and why arguing extremes tends to be a waste of time. FF14's combat isn't SLOW (at max level), but it IS slower than WoW. I wouldn't mind MORE oGCDs to press or more decisions to make. Interesting that you find casters in WoW to be better than FF14. I ironically find melee MUCH better in WoW than FF14, but find casters MUCH more fun in FF14.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    People are forgetting about haste too. As a ret pally, you will be sitting there auto-attacking waiting for abilities to come off of cooldown even at max level until you reach a certain threshold of haste, which was a pain for me since SL quest rewards offered almost exclusively versatility gear.
    One of my few complaints about Ret. I prefer a GCD locked class. Fortunately there are SOME ways to mitigate against it (talents, haste prioritization, etc.) and still remain competitive which I found nice.

  3. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Interesting that you find casters in WoW to be better than FF14. I ironically find melee MUCH better in WoW than FF14, but find casters MUCH more fun in FF14.
    I also find casters to be more fun in FFXIV, what I meant was that I found the casters to be less spammy and more interesting than their melee counterparts in WoW.

  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    WoW's combat, much like the player you quoted described felt more fluid because there's no arbitrary lag built in and a weird desync between the game and the animation. These are not subjective opinions. These are facts. There is inherent lag protection built in, and if you're on a good connection, it doesn't help you, it hurts you and feels janky and the animation desync isn't subjective either. Cast and ability and move and you slide around all silly nilly.

    Do these things MATTER? Now that's subjective and certainly up for debate, but their existence is not subjective.
    Exactly this.

    One can argue about aesthetics or whether classes/jobs have better or worse priority lists to follow in both games, but what's quoted - there is no argument there. FF14 simply is not up to snuff to WoW when it comes to combat responsiveness and visuals being on point to effects... heck even UI lags, thus healing full bars is a possibility.

    Like you can't sell me shit that FF14 combat is as responsive as WoW when such BS like slidecasting exists.

    And yes, one does not need to assume that WoW players are "not getting it" - some people need to get off their high horse if they think oGCD is some sort of insane thing WoW players can't wrap their heads around. What I was talking about not some subjective stuff, but objective sluggishness of FF14 combat because of the way game executes combat itself.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  5. #945
    I mean, FF's combat feels way more fluid to me than WoW's so whatever lmao. Haters be hating.

  6. #946
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Today, one of my alts ended ARR from the MSQ. It took me around 1 week and got 2 Jobs to level 50. It was actually fun, because i was able to check the Lancer/Dragoon quests. So far, this part is not that bad, if you skip everything and just focus on MSQ + Dungeons (DPS for MSQ and Tank Job for Dungeons). Once i get into the patches after ARR, i will let you guys know how bad it is. But its important to mention that i skip cinematics and text (since i already did that on my main) and once i manage to get into Heavensward, things are going to get interesting.

    I haven't tried caster jobs yet, but maybe i will create an alt for that (I know i can play every job on a single character, but i want to play another race).
    If you skipped the 1-30 Lancer story, that's a shame. It was quite good IMO.

  7. #947
    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    I've become bored already. Raiding in tbc classic again.
    Yeah not sure what I'm missing, up to level 30 was supremely boring, and I don't have the free time to just keep playing and trust people that I will enjoy it later.

  8. #948
    Not really a refugee. I tried 1.0 out when it was released but yeah...that was not a good game. For some reason it fell completely under my radar that they remade it into ARR. No idea why….

    I will say though, that i´m more a traditional western type of fantasy fan. I never played any FF game ever, they simply didn´t appeal to me. Hence, it is even much more of a surprise how much i´m into this game now.

    Anyway, i´m in it for 2 months now and i enjoy it a lot. I even like the ARR story, despite it not being some sort of revelation. The writing is good enough to draw you in….and well, certainly better than WoW´s….not that this is something hard to achieve.

    I´m maining Black Mage and at the same time leveling a Bard and Dragoon. I like the combat system and having played a lot of MMOs, it was rather obvious that it was all about weaving and I love a more complex and harder to master system.

    What I really love is all the different stuff you can do but are not forced into. Hunting, Crafting jobs, Fates, 200 lvl mega dungeon...and so much more. I don´t think I will get bored in this game in any foreseeable future. Only thing i´m dreading a little bit is if PvP is really that bad. Not that it will diminish my fun I have with the rest of the game.

    The only things I don´t like very much is that normal content is rather easy, I would like it to be more dangerous, but well...the open world in WoW is brain dead easy as well, so there is that. The lack of a main chat channel is also baffling to me. I wish quests would show on the map when you are looking at a different zone than you are in now. Only minor issues really.

    Community so far has been nice and helpful, not one bad apple yet. Hell...i was doing the quest where you get a new emote to throw snowballs and in seconds I was involved in a snowball fight with several people...that´s what an MMO should be about.

    If I would have to describe the game with one sentence I would say “it´s a feel good game”. The music, atmosphere and writing, just “feels” good. And from what I can tell everything seems to get even better after ARR...so i´m in for the long ride.

  9. #949
    Quote Originally Posted by Azraille View Post
    Yeah not sure what I'm missing, up to level 30 was supremely boring, and I don't have the free time to just keep playing and trust people that I will enjoy it later.
    I made it to 52 somehow. To me its just like all of the other MMOs out there. Just slower then most and just as tedious as the rest.

  10. #950
    Pit Lord Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Speaking as someone who didn't do competitive content in WoW, I haven't had a problem with combat in FFXIV. My DRG at 60 feels fluid enough for my tastes as a casual player. Frankly, I haven't played many MMOs where I found combat to be noticeable, early ESO is the only one I can think of at the moment.



    Maybe it's a matter of preference, but I disagree the zones are uglier. Captivating (at least my interpretation of it), I think the problem is as you said, the world is rather pointless if you're only doing the MSQ. Azeroth (world not titan) was always the main character of WoW with most zones having a deep history that's managed to be chronicled through the ages. I haven't found that to be the case in FFXIV. Calamaties seem to be the lore reason, not much has survived over the millennia and what has are largely mysteries. There's no sense of going somewhere and thinking "this is where [important event] happened", it's more like, "What are those ruins over there? No one knows? Okay, great."

    As someone who doesn't like using addons, I love the customizable UI in FFXIV. The ARR experience leaves much to be desired though, agreed.
    UI customizations is GREAT. But there is way too many menus. WAAAYYY to many.

    I mean, I said this once, and I will say this again, but a forest in north shourd kinda looks the same to the region around summerford farms and thanalan can honestly be confused by the fringes. The zones lack personality, this is not absolute of course, Sea of clouds, azys lla and Lakeland are great, but compared to even the most barren wasteland of Classic Barrens... It simply... Well, IMHO it's lacking. There is no personality in the zones. For lacking of a better word, they look generic. THough, tbf, the artstyle also does not help.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  11. #951
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    The zones lack personality, this is not absolute of course, Sea of clouds, azys lla and Lakeland are great, but compared to even the most barren wasteland of Classic Barrens... It simply... Well, IMHO it's lacking. There is no personality in the zones. For lacking of a better word, they look generic. THough, tbf, the artstyle also does not help.
    I think a lot of ARR in general is generic, not just the zones. I do appreciate that Black Shroud, Thanalan, and La Noscea are thematic though. Classic had some unique zones, but they often didn't make sense bordering each other environmentally and FFXIV seems to do a better job of that.

    My view of Classic is colored by nostalgia, not having experienced other MMOs for comparison, and pre-existing lore. Attempting to be objective, were it not for the events of WC3 I'd consider Tirisfal a dull zone, for example.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  12. #952
    Pit Lord Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I think a lot of ARR in general is generic, not just the zones. I do appreciate that Black Shroud, Thanalan, and La Noscea are thematic though. Classic had some unique zones, but they often didn't make sense bordering each other environmentally and FFXIV seems to do a better job of that.

    My view of Classic is colored by nostalgia, not having experienced other MMOs for comparison, and pre-existing lore. Attempting to be objective, were it not for the events of WC3 I'd consider Tirisfal a dull zone, for example.
    I Mean, they do bordering well because there is a literal loading screen between zones.

    My point is that the barrens feels way more distinct than any other zones in FFXIV. And if you take the recent zones, it only gets more and more different. I feel like you can mistake one zone for another in FFXIV, In WoW, you are way less likely to do so. But again, WoW artstyle is really strong.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  13. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I mean, FF's combat feels way more fluid to me than WoW's so whatever lmao. Haters be hating.
    I think they are largely the same but also different, like.. the best way I can think of it is you drive a manual car for 20 years and suddenly you need to drive another manual but the gears are flipped upside down. It's basically the same thing but.. takes some time getting used to but if you started with the upside down it wouldn't be a problem.

  14. #954
    I'm liking machinist so far. I've replaced summoner with it as my main job on my alt character. Not having to worry about casting being interrupted is so nice. I want to level DRK, but I'm still too nervous to tank.

    Also, the "Road to 70" buff is OP AF, I'm disappointed my main character doesn't have it, it's taking substantially longer to level up jobs on her. None of the servers are preferred anymore, so there's little chance of anyone getting it anymore unless they make it semi-permanent leading up to EW. As much as I usually enjoy leveling alts, I'm beginning to understand now why the newer jobs start at higher levels especially if you want to switch. I think the HW jobs should at least start at 40 since the other newer jobs start at -10 levels of their expansion's content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    I Mean, they do bordering well because there is a literal loading screen between zones.

    My point is that the barrens feels way more distinct than any other zones in FFXIV. And if you take the recent zones, it only gets more and more different. I feel like you can mistake one zone for another in FFXIV, In WoW, you are way less likely to do so. But again, WoW artstyle is really strong.
    I meant bordering like Winterspring being the only frozen zone in Kalimdor despite nothing else at that latitude having snow and Hyjal being a significantly higher altitude. Southern Kalimdor is also practically a checkerboard of arid, lush, arid, lush, with no transition between the two. I haven't noticed that as much in FFXIV. It may lend itself to neighboring zones looking similar, but I find it more realistic. (It's always been a pet peeve of mine that there's no rhyme or reason to WoW maps.)

    I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree it all comes down to art style. There are many WoW zones I have difficulty telling apart or that I would describe as a generic forest, desert, etc. BfA was particularly bad as there wasn't a single zone in the whole expansion I felt like I hadn't already seen elsewhere in the game.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  15. #955
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Don't take complaints so personally. People are more likely to air grievances than talk up how much they enjoy something. It's just the nature of things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Don't take complaints so personally. People are more likely to air grievances than talk up how much they enjoy something. It's just the nature of things. MMO tribalism is so weird.

  16. #956
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Don't take complaints so personally. People are more likely to air grievances than talk up how much they enjoy something. It's just the nature of things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Don't take complaints so personally. People are more likely to air grievances than talk up how much they enjoy something. It's just the nature of things. MMO tribalism is so weird.
    Might want to read the threads title, theres a bunch of other threads to air grievances too.

  17. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Might want to read the threads title, theres a bunch of other threads to air grievances too.
    Not really the point of what they said though, now is it?

  18. #958
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Not really the point of what they said though, now is it?
    They said it in this thread, it has to be taken in the context of this thread, not your imagination of another discussion somewhere else. This thread was started by someone trying to not start another complain threads, the justification for turning it into another random complain thread doesent matter.

  19. #959
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    They said it in this thread, it has to be taken in the context of this thread, not your imagination of another discussion somewhere else.
    Again, not really relevant to the point that was being made. As long as we're talking about context.

    (Also, after 50 pages of discussion, not every post is going to be sunshine and rainbows 24/7. People like to actually discuss things. Not just act like it's a blog where you post happy thoughts.)

  20. #960
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Again, not really relevant to the point that was being made. As long as we're talking about context.

    (Also, after 50 pages of discussion, not every post is going to be sunshine and rainbows 24/7. People like to actually discuss things. Not just act like it's a blog where you post happy thoughts.)
    Could avoid making extra pages if you go to proper threads to complain too. This thread could probably be 10 pages instead? If i make a thread about cakes and after 30 pages it turns into a steak thread for the next 100, why is it not in the steak thread? That just means the cake thread didnt need to be 130 pages. Theres already a full forum of threads to whine, dont need to infest all of them at once.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2021-08-22 at 09:55 PM.

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