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  1. #1101
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    First, what was with all those quests that make you shout some shit in the /say channel, but making you do it again and again until you dot all your i's and cross all your t's? Which sadist came up with that?
    I really dislike those quests, myself. It's an interesting mechanic now and again, used sparingly, but it recurs in FF14 with an annoying regularity. Also not very friendly to people playing with a gamepad, which I often am when running around the open world and doing quests.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  2. #1102
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I really dislike those quests, myself. It's an interesting mechanic now and again, used sparingly, but it recurs in FF14 with an annoying regularity. Also not very friendly to people playing with a gamepad, which I often am when running around the open world and doing quests.
    O loveliest of branches, please grant me your succor!



  3. #1103
    Well, my WoW-refugee wife seems to be following the same curve that I did, albeit extremely compressed since she just started a month ago.

    ARR: "This is kinda awful but it's new so it's ok."
    HW: "Ok, now you got me hooked on this game, honey."
    SB: "...I hate Lyse so much."
    ShB: "So many great characters, I love that one guy!"
    EW: "...do I have to keep doing this? Not even reading anymore. Lets just do roulettes and log out."

    Alas, I guess our views align on this, hah.

  4. #1104
    Level 75 babeee! Chilling in rahk'tika... i forgot la hee existed. It was like a gentle blanket catapulted like an icbm into your face... but then it transitioned to the night time theme and im so comforted. What a theme!

  5. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Well, my WoW-refugee wife seems to be following the same curve that I did, albeit extremely compressed since she just started a month ago.

    ARR: "This is kinda awful but it's new so it's ok."
    HW: "Ok, now you got me hooked on this game, honey."
    SB: "...I hate Lyse so much."
    ShB: "So many great characters, I love that one guy!"
    EW: "...do I have to keep doing this? Not even reading anymore. Lets just do roulettes and log out."

    Alas, I guess our views align on this, hah.
    That seems to be the general consensus, honestly. EW was full of moments that are seemingly made to provoke memes and fanarts, but it was kind of weak as a story compared to ShB.

  6. #1106
    I hope my question is OK here - I'd appreciate feedback from fellow WoW refugees. I have tried very hard to like FFXIV but the storytelling makes me want to pound my head against my desk. I hate sitting and staring at the monitor while my character mutely bobs her head and various NPCs talk and talk. And talk. And talk. The story itself may be good but the way it is delivered really doesn't work for me. I realize this may mean that the game ultimately just isn't for me. But my problem is that I have former WoW guildmates playing FFXIV and I miss raiding with them.

    I like questing. I like crafting. I like dungeons and raids. I appreciate the quirky and friendly FFXIV community. But so far I haven't been able to tolerate the storytelling enough to get a character leveled.

    So if any of you have faced similar struggles, how did you deal with this? Is there a solution for me or do I need to either suck it up and deal with the godawful storytelling method or give up and play other games? Returning to WoW is not an option. Any tips, strategies, or solutions are welcome.

  7. #1107
    Quote Originally Posted by Saravat View Post
    I hope my question is OK here - I'd appreciate feedback from fellow WoW refugees. I have tried very hard to like FFXIV but the storytelling makes me want to pound my head against my desk. I hate sitting and staring at the monitor while my character mutely bobs her head and various NPCs talk and talk. And talk. And talk. The story itself may be good but the way it is delivered really doesn't work for me. I realize this may mean that the game ultimately just isn't for me. But my problem is that I have former WoW guildmates playing FFXIV and I miss raiding with them.

    I like questing. I like crafting. I like dungeons and raids. I appreciate the quirky and friendly FFXIV community. But so far I haven't been able to tolerate the storytelling enough to get a character leveled.

    So if any of you have faced similar struggles, how did you deal with this? Is there a solution for me or do I need to either suck it up and deal with the godawful storytelling method or give up and play other games? Returning to WoW is not an option. Any tips, strategies, or solutions are welcome.
    Ultimately it's up to you whether you want to skip cutscenes and race through it all. It'll go a lot faster, that's for sure, and if you don't care about what you're missing then there's no harm to it.

    You can always catch up on the story stuff on youtube later or something if you started caring about it!

  8. #1108
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Serpent View Post
    That seems to be the general consensus, honestly. EW was full of moments that are seemingly made to provoke memes and fanarts, but it was kind of weak as a story compared to ShB.
    O.o

    We must've played different games. EW is amazing. It brought me to tears. That last zone is heart wrenching (garlemald was also with those post WW2 vibes). There is so much subliminal messaging. It's an incredible story and there are still loose ends they can pull from in the future (in particular to do with Azem).
    The only thing about ShB is that it was contained to that world. So, they could present you with a brand new world and characters where everything is something new to be discovered without the constraints of what is already established. EW had to bring things to a close in the source. I myself found ShB a better isolated experience, but when it comes to wrapping the story up, Endwalker did a great job.

    Also, i gotta say i have been enjoying the raid encounters in Pandemonium and the new alliance raid a lot more. The raiding in FF atm is super enjoyable. Wish we had another Bozja, but it seems unlikely now. The island and deep dungeon probably took those resources.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2022-11-24 at 11:07 PM.

  9. #1109
    Quote Originally Posted by Saravat View Post
    I hope my question is OK here - I'd appreciate feedback from fellow WoW refugees. I have tried very hard to like FFXIV but the storytelling makes me want to pound my head against my desk. I hate sitting and staring at the monitor while my character mutely bobs her head and various NPCs talk and talk. And talk. And talk. The story itself may be good but the way it is delivered really doesn't work for me. I realize this may mean that the game ultimately just isn't for me. But my problem is that I have former WoW guildmates playing FFXIV and I miss raiding with them.

    I like questing. I like crafting. I like dungeons and raids. I appreciate the quirky and friendly FFXIV community. But so far I haven't been able to tolerate the storytelling enough to get a character leveled.

    So if any of you have faced similar struggles, how did you deal with this? Is there a solution for me or do I need to either suck it up and deal with the godawful storytelling method or give up and play other games? Returning to WoW is not an option. Any tips, strategies, or solutions are welcome.
    Where are you atm in FFXIV?

  10. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravat View Post
    I hope my question is OK here - I'd appreciate feedback from fellow WoW refugees. I have tried very hard to like FFXIV but the storytelling makes me want to pound my head against my desk. I hate sitting and staring at the monitor while my character mutely bobs her head and various NPCs talk and talk. And talk. And talk. The story itself may be good but the way it is delivered really doesn't work for me. I realize this may mean that the game ultimately just isn't for me. But my problem is that I have former WoW guildmates playing FFXIV and I miss raiding with them.

    I like questing. I like crafting. I like dungeons and raids. I appreciate the quirky and friendly FFXIV community. But so far I haven't been able to tolerate the storytelling enough to get a character leveled.

    So if any of you have faced similar struggles, how did you deal with this? Is there a solution for me or do I need to either suck it up and deal with the godawful storytelling method or give up and play other games? Returning to WoW is not an option. Any tips, strategies, or solutions are welcome.
    Skipping cutscenes, watching/reading a plot synopsis, and using The Longest Journey (journal book on the desk in your inn room) or going through NG+ is a completely valid option if you're not sold on the story or how it's presented.

    XIV has a pretty solid plot, overall, but the storytelling often leaves a *lot* to be desired, especially between the big "season finale" moments.

  11. #1111
    People who say gearing alts is hard do not actually plat the game. I ran 6 different toons in SL 5 of which were alts. I literally played maybe 30 minutes a week in each alt to keep them raid ready for when I needed to switch. Each alt is only around 10ilvls lower than my main and I barely played them. All fully unlocked with full leggos. I also did it all before the catch up mechanics.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    Savage is mythic equivalent, so if you are gearing alts to be raid-ready in the similar lockouts then you have to compare it like-for-like, this would be like being able to non-stop farm mythic until everyone had BiS with no lockouts, or (much like top guilds do) having prepped alts.
    Ive seen savage and I know people who run it. It is not even close. Savage in FF14 is heroic difficulty in WoW. This is coming from players who run top 50 world mythic.

  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    O.o

    We must've played different games. EW is amazing. It brought me to tears. That last zone is heart wrenching (garlemald was also with those post WW2 vibes). There is so much subliminal messaging. It's an incredible story and there are still loose ends they can pull from in the future (in particular to do with Azem).
    The only thing about ShB is that it was contained to that world. So, they could present you with a brand new world and characters where everything is something new to be discovered without the constraints of what is already established. EW had to bring things to a close in the source. I myself found ShB a better isolated experience, but when it comes to wrapping the story up, Endwalker did a great job.

    Also, i gotta say i have been enjoying the raid encounters in Pandemonium and the new alliance raid a lot more. The raiding in FF atm is super enjoyable. Wish we had another Bozja, but it seems unlikely now. The island and deep dungeon probably took those resources.
    Big disagree for me. I felt that EW had some pretty significant pacing issues, and the fact that they effectively sidelined Garlemald to turn the bulk of the second act into "people get sad and turn into monsters" didn't sit well with me. Like, why put so much effort into introducing the Telephoroi and resurrected Zenos in the post-game ShB patches when they were sidelined for a depressed tween introduced at the 11th hour?

    I also hated Elpis and everything associated with it on the grounds of "timey wimey bullshit is a terrible narrative device and it almost never works out well." But I was never part of the Emet-Selch fanclub, and I didn't want to bang/be banged by Hythlo/Venat/Emet-Selch like the rest of the apparently very thirsty playerbase, so maybe that's just me. Clearly a lot of people liked it, so I'm perfectly fine with just accepting it wasn't my cup of tea. Endsinger was a *very* Final Fantasy final boss... and while that gave me nostalgia, I also tend to not think of "Final Fantasy final boss" as a generally good narrative end to a story. She kind of came out of nowhere in the final act of the game, at the same time they introduced dynamis as a retconned explanation for why things happened (kind of a shitty resolution to the "what 'sound' was Emet-Selch talking about?" plot thread if you ask me, but YMMV.) Not to mention the good guy brigade just going "idk I guess?" when Zenos shows up and wants to munch on what was left of the mothercrystal.

    I don't understand where people get emotional investment in Ultima Thule from. Gorgeous zone, great music, awful plot. Sacrifices aren't meaningful, or sacrifices, if you're literally telling the player that they can make it all better when they feel like it. At that point it just becomes a monologue conga line.

    There's also the separate issue that, for me... I don't really like the Scions that much? They're okay. But I feel like they're getting more and more Bowdlerized with every expansion, because Square-Enix doesn't want to threaten their cash cow. Yet with any story that's expected to be told for such a long stretch, and where the designated protagonist is effectively faceless and mute (at least Link has the benefit of expression, if not voice...), it's hard to keep using the same characters over and over, especially when by all rights they finished their story arcs long ago. Like, by the end of ShB, Thancred should have been retired as a primary character - either he dies protecting someone (as with many, I think he should have killed Ran'jit and died shortly afterwards from the strain, during that duty you play as him in ShB) or he's just sidelined like Krile and new characters become part of the "player party." See also: every other Scion that's part of the "player party" right now. Even the twins. None of the primary characters are really growing or advancing or changing in these narratives.

    Alphie hasn't really changed substantially since the end of ARR - he's still the same arrogant, stubborn kid that expects success all the time, fails, does the shonen anime protagonist HEROIC DETERMINATION thing, and repeats. Alisaie is still a tsundere-for-WoL kid that gets angry and hits things and starts chewing the scenery as soon as Designated NPC That Will Die Later, in fact, dies later because they were marked for death the moment Alisaie made them her emotion pet. Y'shtola has never once stopped being a catty, "I seek knowledge!" person with zero complexity or nuance to their character, the downside of being the designated waifu. G'raha stopped developing after ShB, becoming just an uwu WoL-senpai husbando counterpart to Y'shtola. Urianger talks about being more open and honest with people and then in literally the very next fucking sentence wants to hide him doing another duplicity. Oh, and they mentioned Moenbryda, that one NPC that was introduced and then killed off a month or two later (and now less than an hour of gameplay these days), to the point that most people only vaguely remember who she is or what she did other than "yeah she was Urianger's gf or something idk." Great voice acting in that scene, seriously A+ work, but not exactly good storytelling.

    I dunno. I think ShB benefited *greatly* from being a "contained episode." They could introduce new characters without having to worry about tying them into the greater whole, and they could have the Scions be somewhat different from their normal selves, owing to them arriving on the First months or years ahead of the WoL.

  13. #1113
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    Not reading someone's post/understanding it then trying to flex is one of the weirdest things I've seen in a while. Have another crack at it, I'll be here if you are still struggling with basic reading comprehension (hint: Lockout may be the most important part of this sentence), but what should I expect from some random on the internet.
    I read your post. You said savage is equivalent to mythic which is just 100% false. Do not back peddle. No one cares about lockouts. That is not even remotely what is important in your post.

    The first four words of your post is the part where you are wrong.

  14. #1114
    Hell yeah, time and dimensional travel is heckin cringe, don't you agree, fellow ShB fans?

  15. #1115
    I wanna link my stupid image that i spent a whole 15 minutes on! Heres my graph.



    ARR: Super fun. Loved all the goobus, moogles, exploring... I dont think i cared about the story to be honest. It was more background to the "newfound adventure" feeling.
    ARR (Post MSQ): I hated this. Again, probs not for the story (though im struggling to remember what it even was), but because i had no idea that id have to play another 3 million msqs to reach the next expansion. It's a definite player breaking point. I just wanted to move on! The sheer number of mandatory dungeons and raids pissed me off no end.

    HW: It was alright... but i kind of spoiled it by doing all the aetherite currents whilst playing through. It probably doubled my playtime in every zone and broke the story momentum up a little too heavily.
    HW (post MSQ): I mean... final steps of faith cutscene... what else do you need to say? Its such an amazing build up.

    SB: (pre yanxia - and to be honest, yanxia is only really a slight improvement): I was so close to quitting in the red sea/pirate section. It dragged on way too long with super shit characters (Lady of the land notwithstanding).
    SB (Azim Steppes): My favorite zone in the entire game. Partly for the lore. Partly for the characters. Partly because its the one shining moment in a pretty poor x.0 msq. I love that zone.
    SB (post Azim): Another dip in fun. Back to Leeds. Eugh... not as terrible as the first two parts.. but such a bummer after the joy of azim steppes.
    SB (Post MSQ): 4.2-4.3: Incredible story. 4.4-4.5: Throw wide the gates mystery solving. The best set up to an expansion ever. Top tier!

    SHB: Great... maybe rahktika was a slower point, but aside that... almost flawless. When you hit amaurot though, the game becomes... grander than you ever thought possible.
    SHB (Post MSQ): Again, perfect... up to .4-.5... it didnt really click with me, but couldnt be bothered to slope it back down.

    EW: First two zones: Pretty slow. Third zone: interesting for those who like that (it didnt hit me the same as others - its preach's favorite zone... preach never cared for azim steppes though... different strokes). Then you hit fan service land and arguably the best cutscene in game history. Act 3 starts badly and then slips into tedium before arriving at Ultima Thule. And i kind of hate ultima thule. Im not sure why. It's those ghosty geniuses... i felt... 'irrationally angry'. I hated everything thereafter and could only play it with absolute sarcasm...until the flowers. Then i was in an emotional state that can only be described as 'irrationally happy'. The final final fight was so dumb and perfect.
    EW (post MSQ): Zero's interesting. Not really sure about the story itself. It seems... plodding? But its serviceable.

    There we go. My amazing graph explained (with very subjective opinions).

    ETA: HUGE REJOINDER TO STORMBLOOD. It may or may not be important, but i cant let it lie... the graph is purely about the open world/msq. It doesnt really touch on the instanced content. And this does stormblood a bit of a disservice.

    The quality improvement in dungeons and trials from arr and heavensward is GIGANTIC!!!! For me, personally, its that sweet spot between long, easy and meandering (arr/heavensward), and frenetic, complex and super busy (endwalker). They're also just really fun. The first dungeon sets the tone. I have unreasonable anxiety healing. That dungeon was pure fun. It calmed my heart.

    Around 4.3 is when we get the next step up in difficult that carries through to the current game... but that period was so enjoyable for me. So while the msq is floundering, the dungeons and trials are really starting to pop off.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2022-11-26 at 10:19 AM.

  16. #1116
    Ah I see Grinning Serpent is back insisting that, "All the things people love most about this game are bad, actually."

  17. #1117
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Serpent View Post
    Big disagree for me. I felt that EW had some pretty significant pacing issues, and the fact that they effectively sidelined Garlemald to turn the bulk of the second act into "people get sad and turn into monsters" didn't sit well with me. Like, why put so much effort into introducing the Telephoroi and resurrected Zenos in the post-game ShB patches when they were sidelined for a depressed tween introduced at the 11th hour?

    I also hated Elpis and everything associated with it on the grounds of "timey wimey bullshit is a terrible narrative device and it almost never works out well." But I was never part of the Emet-Selch fanclub, and I didn't want to bang/be banged by Hythlo/Venat/Emet-Selch like the rest of the apparently very thirsty playerbase, so maybe that's just me. Clearly a lot of people liked it, so I'm perfectly fine with just accepting it wasn't my cup of tea. Endsinger was a *very* Final Fantasy final boss... and while that gave me nostalgia, I also tend to not think of "Final Fantasy final boss" as a generally good narrative end to a story. She kind of came out of nowhere in the final act of the game, at the same time they introduced dynamis as a retconned explanation for why things happened (kind of a shitty resolution to the "what 'sound' was Emet-Selch talking about?" plot thread if you ask me, but YMMV.) Not to mention the good guy brigade just going "idk I guess?" when Zenos shows up and wants to munch on what was left of the mothercrystal.

    I don't understand where people get emotional investment in Ultima Thule from. Gorgeous zone, great music, awful plot. Sacrifices aren't meaningful, or sacrifices, if you're literally telling the player that they can make it all better when they feel like it. At that point it just becomes a monologue conga line.

    There's also the separate issue that, for me... I don't really like the Scions that much? They're okay. But I feel like they're getting more and more Bowdlerized with every expansion, because Square-Enix doesn't want to threaten their cash cow. Yet with any story that's expected to be told for such a long stretch, and where the designated protagonist is effectively faceless and mute (at least Link has the benefit of expression, if not voice...), it's hard to keep using the same characters over and over, especially when by all rights they finished their story arcs long ago. Like, by the end of ShB, Thancred should have been retired as a primary character - either he dies protecting someone (as with many, I think he should have killed Ran'jit and died shortly afterwards from the strain, during that duty you play as him in ShB) or he's just sidelined like Krile and new characters become part of the "player party." See also: every other Scion that's part of the "player party" right now. Even the twins. None of the primary characters are really growing or advancing or changing in these narratives.

    Alphie hasn't really changed substantially since the end of ARR - he's still the same arrogant, stubborn kid that expects success all the time, fails, does the shonen anime protagonist HEROIC DETERMINATION thing, and repeats. Alisaie is still a tsundere-for-WoL kid that gets angry and hits things and starts chewing the scenery as soon as Designated NPC That Will Die Later, in fact, dies later because they were marked for death the moment Alisaie made them her emotion pet. Y'shtola has never once stopped being a catty, "I seek knowledge!" person with zero complexity or nuance to their character, the downside of being the designated waifu. G'raha stopped developing after ShB, becoming just an uwu WoL-senpai husbando counterpart to Y'shtola. Urianger talks about being more open and honest with people and then in literally the very next fucking sentence wants to hide him doing another duplicity. Oh, and they mentioned Moenbryda, that one NPC that was introduced and then killed off a month or two later (and now less than an hour of gameplay these days), to the point that most people only vaguely remember who she is or what she did other than "yeah she was Urianger's gf or something idk." Great voice acting in that scene, seriously A+ work, but not exactly good storytelling.

    I dunno. I think ShB benefited *greatly* from being a "contained episode." They could introduce new characters without having to worry about tying them into the greater whole, and they could have the Scions be somewhat different from their normal selves, owing to them arriving on the First months or years ahead of the WoL.
    Yes, i'm sure some writers could potentially write a story more to your liking. But, these ones are perfectly suitable for my liking. I am sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it.

  18. #1118
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    Ah I see Grinning Serpent is back insisting that, "All the things people love most about this game are bad, actually."
    It's a pretty common tactic when people are trying to tear something down. If they can gaslight people into thinking that the best thing isn't actually that good then subconsciously they'll start to think that everything else must surely be crap.

  19. #1119
    quick reminder: please be cognizant of spoilers. Though it seems like its turning into another ff14 megathread discussion, people looking at this thread or hoping to post in it, may be put off by a) the spoilerific turn; and b) the more general discussion relying on having completed the game (they may just not want to disturb the ongoing conversation with their thoughts on getting their first chocobo or how good the nighttime theme in Limsa lominsa is - i really want them to talk about this stuff! It brings me right back into my happy place).

    ETA: One very stupid question that probably can be resolved with a google search (i did try, but all i got was tmi of sets...). While leveling i stumbled upon the Halonic set (57 from The vault). It had yellow writing which completely captured my attention, so i farmed it. Did i just randomly pick up a random set (like all the others on the eorzeacollection), or was it special? And if it was, are there other sets out there worth collecting? Specifically regarding my currently lvl 75 bard looking to hit level 77 by the end of tonight... or even sb 67ish? Or... did i just fall for random yellow text?
    Last edited by ippollite; 2022-11-26 at 02:59 AM.

  20. #1120
    You keep back peddling cause you know I called you out. I read your post.
    You said savage is the same as mythic. You than talked abouy the lockouts being similar. LOCKOUTS DO NOT MATTER. Difficult matters. Lockouts have no reason to ever be in the conversation.

    Savage is the same difficulty as heroic, actually it is easier.

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