Wow refugees, what are you enjoying about the game?

[Katchii]

Correct. The original claim though was something along the lines of it being the only way to play deep dungeon which obviously is absurd.

I'm not sure you and I are looking at the same post then, because the one being quoted initially was specifically talking about leveling speed, the amount of xp needed to level, how long a typical PotD run took and how much xp each run was giving. Not about PotD in general.

Here's the quote:

The leveling speed is also pretty bad. I'm at 57 and I need 2,995,200 experience to level to 58. they want us to go out in the world and do fates, but a fate my level gives 47,520. that's a fraction of what I need. I'd have to do over 60 fates to level that one time. Then you have Palace of the Dead which people swear up and down is the fastest way to level and it gives me a half a level's worth of experience regardless of how far into it I go and a run takes about 20 minutes.

[Milfshaked]

idk.. to me FF14 is slower and simpler combat as a lvl 71ish dragoon vs lvl 60 ret pally my dragoon is much more simple and easier to learn unless something comes into play later. I also feel with the longer GCD and in some cases animations, I have more time to think between attacks vs WoW button smash. could be that just comparing 2 classes is not indicative to the game overall though idk.

I cant speak for dragoon as I have not played it, but personally I found most classes that I have played in FF14 got started pretty early. Sure, the GCD is longer but you have so many off-GCD abilities that even with the longer GCD, you are using more skills.

[Qnubi]

I am level 49 PLD now and I am loving it. Next weekend a buddy of mine is gonna start in FF14 as well. Can I switch my job to a level 1 and play with him and help him in his MSQ and level alongside him? I hope that works. Anyone know?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I am level 49 PLD now and I am loving it. Next weekend a buddy of mine is gonna start in FF14 as well. Can I switch my job to a level 1 and play with him and help him in his MSQ and level alongside him? I hope that works. Anyone know?

FFXIV isn't co-op friendly for first timers. Yes you can technically play with him as he is going through the MSQ, but it's only really practical to play with a new player going through the MSQ when they are doing dungeons, and the first one doesn't unlock until level 15. Otherwise, you're just going to be waiting around while he effectively plays a singleplayer JRPG: running and talking to NPCs, watching cutscenes, doing solo duties, etc. If you want to play with him before that, then you can only really screw around doing FATEs or hunting log, but I'd imagine it'd be a miserable experience for the new guy because he will have hardly anything unlocked (no mount so he can't go fast, no flying, no chocobo to help out, can't upgrade from a class to a job at level 30 because he isn't far enough into the MSQ yet, no frontline PvP unlocked, etc). For non dungeon stuff, hold on until he's at least level 30 when he starts unlocking stuff that you can do together and makes it convenient for him.

[Qnubi]

FFXIV isn't co-op friendly for first timers. Yes you can technically play with him as he is going through the MSQ, but it's only really practical to play with a new player going through the MSQ when they are doing dungeons, and the first one doesn't unlock until level 15. Otherwise, you're just going to be waiting around while he effectively plays a singleplayer JRPG: running and talking to NPCs, watching cutscenes, doing solo duties, etc. If you want to play with him before that, then you can only really screw around doing FATEs or hunting log, but I'd imagine it'd be a miserable experience for the new guy because he will have hardly anything unlocked (no mount so he can't go fast, no flying, no chocobo to help out, can't upgrade from a class to a job at level 30 because he isn't far enough into the MSQ yet, no frontline PvP unlocked, etc). For non dungeon stuff, hold on until he's at least level 30 when he starts unlocking stuff that you can do together and makes it convenient for him.

So basically, it would be better to level up my crafting and gathering while he does his MSQ and only join him for the Dungeons. Bummer. :/

[Wrecktangle]

FF14 combat might not be rocket science, but it is far more complex than anything wow has to offer. I think saying anything different would require quite some dishonesty as the difference is massive.

Did you uh.... read anything else in my post besides that first line? I gave a very detailed breakdown of what depth/synergy and complexity looks like in WoW. Did you see it/read it or have any questions or concerns as to why I typed was incorrect?

Mind you, we're in agreement on your other points (esp. about interrupts, utility, etc.).

[|Dexter|]

This game wasn't for me.
Feeling burnt out on WoW, I figured I'd try FFXIV since there's lots of content in the free trial.
I've tried tons of MMOs throughout the years, WoW, SWTOR, TESO, GW2, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Neverwinter and a bunch more.
Yet my new player experience in FFXIV was, by far, the worst in any MMO I've played. It took me legit about one hour before I even got into my first combat.
I know that you probably can get to the first fighting quest faster, but for me as a new player who doesn't know where stuff is and who read all the quests (fairly slow reader), and spent some time moving around my UI, it took a lot of time just running around. I also found the map to be clunky which didn't help. So I spent about an hour doing delivery and fetch quests in the city you start in before finally getting outside and into combat. At that point I was bored out of my mind, and just uninstalled it.

Most MMO's start you off with a "Kill 5 pigs" quest or something like that, and even that is much more fun than "Go talk to X" "Now go talk to Y" "Now deliver this to Z".

Maybe I just did the quests in the wrong order or something, or maybe I should've just skipped all the quest text, but by the point I was about an hour in, and had lost any enthusiasm I had.

This is one of the things I hear more, players that not really care for the story and just want to fight things.... while it makes total sense, Your character is totally new to your starter town they don't have any status or are skill tested yet, so they start doing easy stuff for the town folks to gain trust, it's totally normal that one stranger would not send you out to kill some wolfs in the forest if you don't have any true XP doing that, they rather would send someone that got Reputation to fight wolfs so they don't send one random person to their deaths! When the story process and your character build rep, lots more combat quest and during the game your combat skills also get better, it's hard work to earn that!

[Lane]

Thancred is officially my favorite character. Still early in the MSQ, just chose my grand company (flame people won for skimpiest armor :P) and finally got my chocobo. Incidentally, if you're only playing one job you're going to be closer to 30 by the time you get it, certainly not level 20 based on my experience. I've started alternating between two jobs when I turn quests in and I'm still +5 over the MSQ - on both jobs now! Starting to think I need to weave in a third one.

Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro ones because I don't like being responsible for wasting other's time. Speaking of which, is there a command other than /gpose that removes the UI?

My main job atm is lancer, still no AoE at level 25 so I'm assuming I have to become a full on dragoon before I get one. I feel kind of gimpy in groups because of it, even though there's no DPS meter I just feel like I'm not doing as much as the other DPS when I have to poke one monster at a time.

Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.

[Maljinwo]

The "issue" with the starting experience is that there's a lot of world building that will pay off the in the future

FFXIV is story first, game later.

[justandulas]

The starting experience in XIV is an extremely common complaint though, and it could probably use some work.

Granted, combat isn't everything, and the game has a large focus on story. Still, the starting experience is probably the number one complaint, maybe second to post-ARR questlines.

They desperately need to find a way to streamline both the initial ARR leveling, and the post ARR questlines pre heavensword. Both are exhaustingly lengthy by even old MMORPG standards, and no doubt i'd bet ff14 loses it's biggest # of potential players during that. Players who never get to the really good content because ARR is kind of a slog, and the post ARR content (while the raid boss encounters are fun) is 90% just "warp here talk to this person. go here to this other person. do that 10x and 1 boss fight, repeat the process multiple times".

I like ff14, and i'm not trying to rain on its parade, i'm just being honest that they could use to streamline ARR-post ARR quite a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

The "issue" with the starting experience is that there's a lot of world building that will pay off the in the future

FFXIV is story first, game later.

let's not pretend ARR story is all that interesting, at least not until the very end or post ARR. And it drags on, and on, and on....

compare it to something like SWTOR class story and it's clear that ff14 needs to revamp it's ARR experience because right now, it handicaps the game more than it helps it.

EXAMPLE: Asmongold, love him or hate him, is going to try to level up ff14 next week and will start fresh. The only reason i even bring him up is because i guarantee he's going to spend the first 50 levels crying about the painfully slow and dull leveling of ARR, and he won't even make it to the really good stuff of Heavensword and beyond.

[Katchii]

The starting experience in XIV is an extremely common complaint though, and it could probably use some work.

Granted, combat isn't everything, and the game has a large focus on story. Still, the starting experience is probably the number one complaint, maybe second to post-ARR questlines.

Yeah, and rightfully so. It feels really slow which doesn't help with retention.

Narratively the way the do it makes sense, but it feels bad. For players interested in the story and really into the game they'll suffer through it until it gets better, but they're STILL suffering through it. Even as someone who loves FFXIV, the new player experience is terrible. They could introduce new quests that establish the combat faster. You don't need to do tedious quests to establish yourselves as someone capable. They could have sparring quests that "see what you got!" before throwing you to the wolves.

[Thestrawman]

Thancred is officially my favorite character. Still early in the MSQ, just chose my grand company (flame people won for skimpiest armor :P) and finally got my chocobo. Incidentally, if you're only playing one job you're going to be closer to 30 by the time you get it, certainly not level 20 based on my experience. I've started alternating between two jobs when I turn quests in and I'm still +5 over the MSQ - on both jobs now! Starting to think I need to weave in a third one.

Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro ones because I don't like being responsible for wasting other's time. Speaking of which, is there a command other than /gpose that removes the UI?

My main job atm is lancer, still no AoE at level 25 so I'm assuming I have to become a full on dragoon before I get one. I feel kind of gimpy in groups because of it, even though there's no DPS meter I just feel like I'm not doing as much as the other DPS when I have to poke one monster at a time.

Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.

No one will mind you watching cutscenes at the beginning of dungeons/trials. But if you really feel like you have to skip them you can rewatch them in any inn room.

'Scroll lock' is the default key to hide your ui without going into gpose.

People know which classes get aoes later then the others. Just focus on not getting hit by aoes and not damage. Players are a lot more understanding about it then you might thing, mainly because we've all had to drudge through it.

[Echo of Soul]

The "issue" with the starting experience is that there's a lot of world building that will pay off the in the future

FFXIV is story first, game later.

Indeed. It makes very little sense to complain about combat in a story heavy game. The problem however is players having a preconceived view of what a MMORPG "should be", the game not really being marketed enough as a JRPG first even though the community are doing their best to avoid fooling anyone.

I think that everyone could do a better job at explaining to people what the game is so they expect it to be a proper video game and not a reskinned WoW.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Thancred is officially my favorite character.

I thought most of the Scions were meh until Shadowbringers. Only ones I liked in ARR were Papalymo, Minfillia, and Tataru.

Not a fan of watching cutscenes holding up parties, I wish there were a way to watch them before everyone zones into the dungeon if you're a first timer. I like taking screenshots during cutscenes if my character is in them, but I've been skipping out of the intro one

Don't worry about the intro cutscenes to dungeons. Just watch them on your first time. People who've already seen the cutscenes a billion times and have intro cutscenes turned off just find other things to do while they wait. FFXIV has conditioned its playerbase to not rush that much.

Random, but I'm baffled why female Au Ra are so short. They're the second shortest while the males are the second tallest.

Au Ra are pretty much the idealized Japanese stand in, so naturally the females are going to be petite and short.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed. It makes very little sense to complain about combat in a story heavy game. The problem however is players having a preconceived view of what a MMORPG "should be", the game not really being marketed enough as a JRPG first

Eh, the cinematic trailers and the patch trailers emphasize characters talking (character drama, plot, mysteries) and cutscenes, basically selling the story first. I do agree that the FFXIV newbie website sells it as an MMO first, rather than the JRPG the game mainly is.

I think that everyone could do a better job at explaining to people what the game is so they expect it to be a proper video game and not a reskinned WoW.

True.

[Maljinwo]

Its hard not to expect an mmo to have a wow pace after years of being the only relevant mmo with every other game in the genre emulating it

So yes. We do have ESO and FFXIV now, but wow is the one people expect mmos to play like

[Selah]

It's been really interesting for me. Level 40 monk here. Just been focusing on MSQ and job/class stories. Oh, and unlock quests as they pop up.

It's weird, actually playing the game in combat feels like a very natural transition for a WoW player but the pace of the game clearly is not. It's a lot slower than WoW and I'm glad for that because it is an RPG, there's stories, characters, and all sorts of interesting things to bump into. It's really cool to have characters you like outside of the main story. For example, you know all the big name characters (Baine, Jaina, Jailer, Bolivar, ect.) but not necessarily any particular innkeeps, or quest giver, ect. Whereas FF14 has an array of characters you run into and spend time with. Like Momodi I absolutely adore, but really loved learning about the past of Shamani and how he dealt with being blinded by taking to making wine. Stuff like that just stands out in comparison to WoW.

Systems wise, it is pretty great. There's all sorts of small really cool things I enjoy dabbling in and with. There's definitely plenty of reason to come back to content after I've leveled and just clear it all and with the job system there's no reason why you shouldn't if you want to. The only systems gripe I have right now is that glam prisms feels arbitrary and it's extremely frustrating to try to collect your appearances in the dresser when it just eats those up. I do feel like the transmog system in WoW does beat out FF14 there.

Combat feels pretty solid, very familiar but different in its own way. I Wil say the dungeons aren't all that interesting to me right now. They seem pretty easy and basic, which is perfect for new players but there not engaging enough for me personally. I'm curious to see how they evolve into Shadowbringers.

I think the hardest thing for me was breaking the mentality of WoW and just go go go while leveling. On occasion I still find myself not reading quest text as it pops up from time to time. Though, that's a behavior I've largely corrected.

Overall, very happy with the experience so far and excited to have a game that has that old school MMO magic that seems to be missing from WoW these days.

[Lane]

I thought most of the Scions were meh until Shadowbringers. Only ones I liked in ARR were Papalymo, Minfillia, and Tataru.

Technically he's the first one I encountered (back when I was a fledgling thaumaturge) and the only one I've done any story with between early Ul'dah MSQs, going undercover together outside Drybone, and then the post Bowl of Embers interactions. The rest of the cast of characters so far don't have much meaning to me yet.

Au Ra are pretty much the idealized Japanese stand in, so naturally the females are going to be petite and short.

I figured that would be the Miqo'te, I was surprised Au Ra are even shorter than them. Mine is average height (50) and sometimes I feel like I made a Lalafel. :P

Its hard not to expect an mmo to have a wow pace after years of being the only relevant mmo with every other game in the genre emulating it

So yes. We do have ESO and FFXIV now, but wow is the one people expect mmos to play like

FFXIV is by far the longest I've ever had to wait to get into combat in an MMO, there's not even a close second. Even then, it's a couple quests from the city that take less than 5 minutes to do (basically 2-shotting a handful of level 1 mobs) and then you're back to running around and clicking through dialog. WoW is the other extreme of the spectrum though. Leveling is lightning fast, there's no reason to read quest text and it's easy to skip, plus depending on where you decide to level you may never encounter cutscenes or voiced dialog until SL.

ESO was just perfection to me, exactly what I wanted out of an MMORPG, but I couldn't get my SO to stick with it in part due to no dialog skip. I'm afraid I'm going to encounter the same in FFXIV. Disinterest starts to set in quick when there's more clicking than combat.

[Maljinwo]

Technically he's the first one I encountered (back when I was a fledgling thaumaturge) and the only one I've done any story with between early Ul'dah MSQs, going undercover together outside Drybone, and then the post Bowl of Embers interactions. The rest of the cast of characters so far don't have much meaning to me yet.



I figured that would be the Miqo'te, I was surprised Au Ra are even shorter than them. Mine is average height (50) and sometimes I feel like I made a Lalafel. :P



FFXIV is by far the longest I've ever had to wait to get into combat in an MMO, there's not even a close second. Even then, it's a couple quests from the city that take less than 5 minutes to do (basically 2-shotting a handful of level 1 mobs) and then you're back to running around and clicking through dialog..

Eh, id rather have the quests tell a good story instead of "kill 5/15 enemies" for 75% of the quests

If I want to best up enemies for no reason in XIV I can do fates

[KainneAbsolute]

Level 45 Monk. My second try in FF14.

My first try was many years ago, without reading the stories. I had a trial and I just wanted to level. I remember that finding a dungeon via duty finder took a lot of time, so I wasn't able to try many dungeons. I played the game very badly because I reached archer 37 without a chocobo, or joining a grand company. I think I leveled only through fates.

I enjoyed the game a lot, and I was able to identify new things. I tried a lot of dungeons and they are ok. I like a lot the armory, class system, the PROFESSIONS, the aesthetic and how the cities are full of people. I enjoying the story and actually reading this time. For example, the dialogues of idle npcs change in waking sands after each visit to Minfilia. I appreciate it a lot those details. I was very impressed by the Golden Saucer, I enjoyed a day there. I WANT to try the retainers, but it is blocked in the trial version.

I do not like the glamour system. I HATE MANY LOADING SCREENS. I wish it is more like WoW where I can travel through the whole continent instead of loading the screen so many times.

I think my mindset changed a lot during the last few years. In WoW, I also take care more about the lore and characters, and that why I hate when Blizzard left characters behind.

I am doing the main story and class mission + some quests near the main quest givers. Any recommendation? Am I missing something?

[Byleth]

That's pathetic writing, though. They show a massive opulent city with people literally starving and fighting outside and then it turns out they can all just go get compensated in literally the next town over and they all want to be in there for childish aesthetic reasons? There isn't even commentary on that aspect to make it a point, Alphinaud literally pretends like this cat boy wanting to chill with his friends is some sort of heartwrenching story. It's a cowardly cop-out and poor writing. Just like everything else in this game and 95% of JRPGs.

The reason no one is rebutting or correcting you on this story point is that the reason why the people are clamoring to be in the city is a pretty major story point, and we don't want to spoil it for any potential new players.

There is a very good reason people are rabid to be inside the city, and had you played through the story for more than 5mins you would know it.