View Poll Results: Do you want Blizzard to return Arcane Torrent and Every Man for Himself as racials?

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  • Yes, probably

    35 47.95%
  • No, probably not

    29 39.73%
  • Other / Not sure / It's complicated

    9 12.33%
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  1. #1

    Do you want Blizzard to return Arcane Torrent and Every Man for Himself as racials?

    The older racials?

    I never really understood why they felt it necessary to change them into what they are today...I thought they were roughly equal in power and popularity. They were powerful racials, perhaps, but then again -- the humans and blood elves were the most popular races, so it was still fairly balanced between them.

    Do you want them to be the racials they once were? Because as they are now...they are not particularly useful, in my personal opinion.
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2021-04-22 at 12:07 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Lady Atia's Avatar
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    The blood elf one (mass purge) is actually quite useful in dungeons - far more than an additional interrupt imo.

  3. #3
    I would much prefer it if every combat racial was removed and they simply kept the flavor ones so I didn't feel like I was gimping myself by playing the races I actually want to play over strictly what is the most viable.

  4. #4
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    The older racials?

    I never really understood why they felt it necessary to change them into what they are today...I thought they were roughly equal in power and popularity. They were powerful racials, perhaps, but then again -- the humans and blood elves were the most popular races, so it was still fairly balanced between them.

    Do you want them to be the racials they once were? Because as they are now...they are not particularly useful, in my personal opinion.
    I don't mind so much anymore but when I played my Horde main, I missed my Arcane Torrent badly - like - really badly..

    I want Dwarves to have 'Find Treasure' back as well. Need some flavor in life.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I don't mind so much anymore but when I played my Horde main, I missed my Arcane Torrent badly - like - really badly..

    I want Dwarves to have 'Find Treasure' back as well. Need some flavor in life.
    Why did Blizzard change them? Was it really...a big controversial problem at the time? Did most players support such a change?
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Wries's Avatar
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    Arcane Torrent changing felt like a given since during Legion M+ it was so insanely useful that, with some group coordination, it trivialized the difficulty compared to a key run w/o or with fewer blood elves.

    In BFA the mass dispell was of course also useful, just not *as* useful and there were fewer situations overall.

    In Shadowlands M+ I can finger count the useful situations with one hand.
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  7. #7
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
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    Remove all racials.

  8. #8
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Why did Blizzard change them? Was it really...a big controversial problem at the time? Did most players support such a change?
    Honestly, it could be OP in PvP with an aoe silence but as a Holy Paladin, I need an interrupt please...

    And I don't recall why it was changed..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  9. #9
    Dreadlord Wolfrick's Avatar
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    If you ask me... Blizzard should go in and do a compleet revamp of the Old races Racials...

    The Allied races has way better and more complicated and interesting racial.

    So there are alot of cool things we could do with the Old races Racials, so blizzard should revamp them if you ask me ^^
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  10. #10
    i miss mana tap
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  11. #11
    I liked the old every man for himself because it was really impactful (running two DPS trinkets in PvP) and cemented humans as the go-to Alliance PvP race.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Remove all racials.
    The worst take of them all. Good job.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  12. #12
    i heard "how many belfs do we have" regularly before they changed it, never hear it anymore (well with exception of kings rest.)

    old one was way more universally useful though. wipes due to missed interupts are quite common, and old belfs were a great way to get backups or require less people for it. would certainly have given us some extra group flexibility on denatrius for example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfrick View Post
    The Allied races has way better and more complicated and interesting racial.
    it's almost as if they want people to pay money for race changes. same with new classes, those are almost guaranteed to be OP for a while too.

  13. #13
    remove all combat racials, all of them

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Remove all combat racials.
    And add a bunch of flavour ones, while you're at it, Ion. Vulpera (non-combat) racials are a good example.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I would much prefer it if every combat racial was removed and they simply kept the flavor ones so I didn't feel like I was gimping myself by playing the races I actually want to play over strictly what is the most viable.
    I mean outside of niche cases the human racial was garbage in pve(although I think now with m+ it could be better). There were a few times in WotLK I think where there was a raid situation that it actually worked and probably shouldn't have like I think at some point on Beast of Northrend's yeti stun it worked which sounds like nothing, but it was essentially a dps gain.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Why did Blizzard change them? Was it really...a big controversial problem at the time? Did most players support such a change?
    Arcane torrent was because the pvp community and the M+ community screamed the silence and interuppt made belfs mandatory

    As for find treasure. Well community kinda saw it as pointless and a bit of a joke. Also you have addons to thank for it becoming useless

  17. #17
    The racials have been too strong in certain situations.

    Make flavour abilities and get rid of racials that affect combat more than maybe a stat bonus alltogether.

    Change the way abilities look depending on what race you are and stuff like that. That is what would make races more intersting and something you actually see ingame rather than either OP abilities or joke abilities no one ever uses.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Why did Blizzard change them? Was it really...a big controversial problem at the time? Did most players support such a change?
    arcane torrent was changed due to mythic+ and the vast majority of groups being horde, and those players being blood elf on almost every class that was 'meta' for the aoe silence/interupt it provided, EMFH was nerfed into oblivion because the arena whiners banged on and on about how unfair it was that humans could break stuns for 'free' and use 2 dps trinkets in pvp when everyone else couldn't etc.

    as for the 'find treasure' thing it was removed and replaced with a more 'thematic' racial for the new profession at the time of archeology since it's something attached to brann bronzebeard i guess they wanted it represented by the dwarves in game and since there was no allied races back then something had to make way for it.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    arcane torrent was changed due to mythic+ and the vast majority of groups being horde, and those players being blood elf on almost every class that was 'meta' for the aoe silence/interupt it provided, EMFH was nerfed into oblivion because the arena whiners banged on and on about how unfair it was that humans could break stuns for 'free' and use 2 dps trinkets in pvp when everyone else couldn't etc.

    as for the 'find treasure' thing it was removed and replaced with a more 'thematic' racial for the new profession at the time of archeology since it's something attached to brann bronzebeard i guess they wanted it represented by the dwarves in game and since there was no allied races back then something had to make way for it.
    Then perhaps - they should improve the existing racials at least slightly. Because they are arguably much less useful, or at least less enjoyable to use, in most situations. And they were iconic as I understand for most blood elf and human players for almost two decades. Some long-term players were very upset when they got changed. You could argue that the racials now are also horrible and unbalanced - for example, look at the nightborne and mag'har racials, they are in my opinion very average at best.
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2021-04-25 at 05:32 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Then perhaps - they should improve the existing racials at least slightly. Because they are arguably much less useful, or at least less enjoyable to use, in most situations. And they were iconic as I understand for most blood elf and human players for almost two decades. Some long-term players were very upset when they got changed. You could argue that the racials now are also horrible and unbalanced - for example, look at the nightborne and mag'har racials, they are in my opinion very average at best.
    You don't seem to understand the problem at all. In a world where changing your race is so trivial, if you made all racials equally strong instead of equally weak, all you are doing is pushing players towards changing race frequently depending on the content you want to do - and neither players nor designers (not execs, obvs) really want that outcome.

    Don't you think it's an issue when the entire raid comp swiches to goblin for a boss encounter (Kil'jaeden), when most possible classes play Night Elf for M+ because of how busted shadowmeld was or when everyone in top ladder places plays Alliance because being human basically gives you an extra entire trinket slot??? Like use your brain a little bit before you ask such an obvious question.

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