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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I know too many that have to drive either too far, or spend too long in traffic every day for work. Hell, I used to be one of them. I won't dismiss or belittle the argument especially since they all hate the price at the gas pump.
    I'll belittle it in the same way that I belittle the way Los Angeles is pieced together. Doing this is a stupid, borderline life-ruining decision. There is pretty much no imaginable employment or housing situation that makes sitting in traffic for 3+ hours every day a better decision than moving to a place that isn't a complete hellhole and scrapping that lifestyle. I acknowledge that if someone decides to live in Santa Monica and work in Duerte, they're going to have a godawful commute, but this isn't actually something that they have to do.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I know too many that have to drive either too far, or spend too long in traffic every day for work. Hell, I used to be one of them. I won't dismiss or belittle the argument especially since they all hate the price at the gas pump.
    Drive to work, plug in the car, drive home on a freshly charged battery. People will have to readjust the way they think about energy, but it's not a big deal in a future where potentially every parking space has a plug built into the ground.

    Personally, I'm seriously giving the bycicle a thought these days. It's faster than a car (given morning traffic and me knowing the backroutes by bike), it's healthier and way cheaper. I can absolutely see me using the car for groceries and larger trips alone. If I'm not using the incredibly dense public transport network in Europe.
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-05-04 at 01:20 PM.
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  3. #243
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    New study explains why nearly 20 percent of electric car owners return to gas
    Some EV owners are not satisfied.

    Electric car owners are 18 percent likely to return to gas-powered cars, a new study shows.

    Researchers at the University of California Davis say that more than 4,000 households who own or previously owned electric vehicles in California went back to gas and diesel cars, Electrek reported.

    Co-authors Scott Hardman and Gil Tal detail owners’ reasons for switching back in the Nature Energy journal.

    "Here, on the basis of results from five questionnaire surveys, we find that PEV discontinuance in California occurs at a rate of 20% for plug-in hybrid electric vehicle owners and 18% for battery electric vehicle owners. We show that discontinuance is related to dissatisfaction with the convenience of charging, having other vehicles in the household that are less efficient, not having level 2 (240-volt) charging at home, having fewer household vehicles and not being male."

    As the researchers suggested, charging is the biggest hurdle for electric car owners as well as its best perk.
    That makes sense. It has been the biggest hurdle, and remains to be so. If we reaaally want to push electric, every gas station across the nation will need to have charging stations as well.

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    Until I can get one that can go 300-400 miles on one charge that costs under 24k I'm not interested.
    I don't think that is a far off future. At least for the 300 miles for around 24k.
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  4. #244
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Drive to work, plug in the car, drive home on a freshly charged battery. People will have to readjust the way they think about energy, but it's not a big deal in a future where potentially every parking space has a plug built into the ground.
    Infrastructure... if we have a swell of charging stations at government offices, private parking lots will realize that at a minimal investment of a charging station, they can perpetually charge people for plugging in, while they are parked. They get gas station action, without the gas station overhead.
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  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Infrastructure... if we have a swell of charging stations at government offices, private parking lots will realize that at a minimal investment of a charging station, they can perpetually charge people for plugging in, while they are parked. They get gas station action, without the gas station overhead.
    "Perpetually" = until the car is charged. There are some questions that I need answering before I fully sign up to the concept. If EV becomes more expensive than fossil fuel, this can't work for low/middle income families. Also, the energy consumption itself isn't going to change dramatically. We still need X amount of energy to move X tons from A to B. Are EV more or less efficient than combustion engines? Can the power grids handle the extra load? I heard California has power grid problems during the summer with all the a/c units jumping into action, what if the whole of california has their car hooked up to the grid as well?

    These things need addressing, but we're not in a bad spot. This is a good starting point for us, it's decades too late, but I think the auto industry has reached the inertia necessary to make the switch now. It moves at glacial speed, but I think this move is already irreversible and a done deal.
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  6. #246
    Elemental Lord Beazy's Avatar
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    Cant we just line the highway with some tesla coils and charge EVs wirelessly with high frequency electricity?

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Cant we just line the highway with some tesla coils and charge EVs wirelessly with high frequency electricity?
    Don't give Musk bad ideas, he will freaking run with it!
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  8. #248
    Elemental Lord Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    Don't give Musk bad ideas, he will freaking run with it!
    We can power them with our solar freakin` roadways!

  9. #249
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    "Perpetually" = until the car is charged. There are some questions that I need answering before I fully sign up to the concept. If EV becomes more expensive than fossil fuel, this can't work for low/middle income families. Also, the energy consumption itself isn't going to change dramatically. We still need X amount of energy to move X tons from A to B. Are EV more or less efficient than combustion engines? Can the power grids handle the extra load? I heard California has power grid problems during the summer with all the a/c units jumping into action, what if the whole of california has their car hooked up to the grid as well?

    These things need addressing, but we're not in a bad spot. This is a good starting point for us, it's decades too late, but I think the auto industry has reached the inertia necessary to make the switch now. It moves at glacial speed, but I think this move is already irreversible and a done deal.
    I just want to note that this argument is basically just the sunk cost fallacy.

    "Oh, we can't invest into electric vehicle infrastructure to make such vehicles convenient and easy to use, we've already invested so much into internal combustion engine vehicular support infrastructure."

    There's a whopping amount of infrastructure that's gone into building gas stations and such that gets overlooked on the regular, in these discussions. And no, I don't think distinguishing between privately-funded infrastructure and publicly-funded is appropriate, here, particularly since we'd have to untangle government tax breaks and investments in the oil industry to even begin to start.

  10. #250
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    We can power them with our solar freakin` roadways!
    I look at the condition of the roads in NJ, and our drained Transportation Trust Fund, and I don't see this happening any time soon.
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  11. #251
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    "Perpetually" = until the car is charged.
    No, just charge extra to park in spots that have a charger. Everyone who parks in that spot will pay more, regardless if they use the energy. Do it at a sport stadium and people will park fuel guzzlers and pay the extra fee.

    By perpetually, I meant as long as the charger is there, not a single car.
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  12. #252
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    No, just charge extra to park in spots that have a charger. Everyone who parks in that spot will pay more, regardless if they use the energy. Do it at a sport stadium and people will park fuel guzzlers and pay the extra fee.

    By perpetually, I meant as long as the charger is there, not a single car.
    Just in practical terms, it's also way easier. No complaints about whether their system registered your full charge, just charge people an extra $X/hour for charging. Or pre-pay for a certain duration of charging and then the charging automatically turns off; you could even manage that kind of thing curbside, in theory.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    I look at the condition of the roads in NJ, and our drained Transportation Trust Fund, and I don't see this happening any time soon.
    oh the horror of not raising/adjusting the tax after 20+ years, what could possibly go wrong.

    I mean its not like that fund is basically bankrupt or anything.
    Its not like Social Security will be cut to 74% of expected benefits because they stopped increasing taxes and adjusting for cost in the early 90's.
    Or how now more money has to come from the general tax fund to pay for Medicare then the actual Medicare employment taxes cause....again....no adjustments since the 1990s

    Forget solar you'll be lucky to have functional roads in a decade

    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    I look at the condition of the roads in NJ, and our drained Transportation Trust Fund, and I don't see this happening any time soon.
    Just reading this has my nearly pitching a frothy mouthed fit. They said that we had to pay more for gas to keep the roads repaired and maintained...and they're not getting the job done. Fuckers are in a conspiracy with auto repair shops!!! *shakes fist...and a shotgun*

  15. #255
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    oh the horror of not raising/adjusting the tax after 20+ years, what could possibly go wrong.

    I mean its not like that fund is basically bankrupt or anything.
    Its not like Social Security will be cut to 74% of expected benefits because they stopped increasing taxes and adjusting for cost in the early 90's.
    Or how now more money has to come from the general tax fund to pay for Medicare then the actual Medicare employment taxes cause....again....no adjustments since the 1990s

    Forget solar you'll be lucky to have functional roads in a decade

    You ain't exactly wrong.
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Just reading this has my nearly pitching a frothy mouthed fit. They said that we had to pay more for gas to keep the roads repaired and maintained...and they're not getting the job done. Fuckers are in a conspiracy with auto repair shops!!! *shakes fist...and a shotgun*
    i avoid potholes in NJ by just driving on the sidewalks.

    people don't even get mad cause they are like "whelp its NJ, it's expected"
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I just want to note that this argument is basically just the sunk cost fallacy.

    "Oh, we can't invest into electric vehicle infrastructure to make such vehicles convenient and easy to use, we've already invested so much into internal combustion engine vehicular support infrastructure."
    I don't read Slant's post as a sunk cost fallacy at all, just noting that the infrastructure isn't there yet to make "switching is easy and everyone can do it" a realistic view right now. He even notes that it progress is being made and it inevitably will be.

  18. #258
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Drive to work, plug in the car, drive home on a freshly charged battery. People will have to readjust the way they think about energy, but it's not a big deal in a future where potentially every parking space has a plug built into the ground.

    Personally, I'm seriously giving the bycicle a thought these days. It's faster than a car (given morning traffic and me knowing the backroutes by bike), it's healthier and way cheaper. I can absolutely see me using the car for groceries and larger trips alone. If I'm not using the incredibly dense public transport network in Europe.
    Yeah, if the people who run your city/country aren't complete idiots, they do care at least a little bit about bike lanes and public transportation. We scrapped our cars entirely and just use those rentable cars that park on every other corner for larger shopping trips. Everything else is done by bike or public. Though we also get most of our vegetables and fruits delivered.

    I get that this is not possible in every city but it should be a thing in major cities with a population of more than idk 500k or so.
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  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    You drive more than 300 miles in one day?
    If you must know....I have family that is regularly visited the distance to them to me and back is about 250 miles.

  20. #260
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    You drive more than 300 miles in one day?
    I have occasionally. I believe the longest day of driving was just over 500 miles. Though less range than that would be fine, given available chargers. They're already all along number 1, so that trip would just require them to cover the yellowhead.

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