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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    because if people [this other thing over there]

    You are trying to take credit for the work people did
    Just a simple poll and analysis. I have a hypothesis about the reception of minor disappointing news about Democrats. Yas Queen's post and Edge's response were a little confirmatory.

    Seriously, a little focus on the subject would do you good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You say this like they're like, informed and their believe that the mortality rate is low comes from being informed.
    Sorry, a little quoting of responses out of order.

    The point was there is a partisan divide on information on certain subjects. In the distribution of deaths in the category of age, both sides are woefully misinformed. In hospitalizations, Democrats are strongly more misinformed. Now I just think a simple admission of that fact, from the poll, is in order, since we are straying very far from the Green New Deal.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  2. #102
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Just a simple poll and analysis.
    Then your failure to look at the whole picture is even more egregious.

    I have a hypothesis about the reception of minor disappointing news about Democrats. Yas Queen's post and Edge's response were a little confirmatory.
    I’m sure it’s an objective hypothesis...

    Seriously, a little focus on the subject would do you good.
    Sure... Does the new green deal include the return of a pandemic response team, that Trump cut to create funding for his tax cut?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Then your failure to look at the whole picture is even more egregious.
    It's a waste of my time if nobody is willing to focus in on ... you know ... what the cited poll shows and some simple things that can be drawn from it. From what I hear, Roshana stands proved right, since everyone else has fled the battlefield and gone into dithering tangents like "but but but this other thing over here is the big picture and let's discuss that instead!"

    Frankly, I think surrendering just a little on something minor would do you some good. In the heart of open and honest debate, that is. Now can you test and answer basic conclusions from the survey, or do you insist on ignoring anything that might be slightly damaging to polled Democrats?
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  4. #104
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    ation on certain subjects. In the distribution of deaths in the category of age, both sides are woefully misinformed. In hospitalizations, Democrats are strongly more misinformed. Now I just think a simple admission of that fact, from the poll, is in order, since we are straying very far from the Green New Deal.
    No, that is asking to take a glib look at the numbers and ignore what likely caused them. In this regard, it’s the same fear of the government, instilled the distrust that caused the drastically different reaction to covid, that scares people from the Green New Deal. It is the same rhetoric that had Trump lie about covid, that dictates the right’s opposition to the green new deal.

    As shown with even with widely popular actions, that GOP members are more than happy to take credit for, they will vote against it... because they are wholly rhetoric driven. When will it be convenient to stop lying about the Green New Deal? As long or less time than covid? When ocean side property have “for sale” signs start floating attached on a buoy, so Ben Shapiro can claim he was right all along?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    It's a waste of my time if nobody is willing to focus in on ... you know ...
    Let me tell you what I know... that responding to the whole picture, is more of a waste of time than this:

    what the cited poll shows and some simple things that can be drawn from it. From what I hear, Roshana stands proved right, since everyone else has fled the battlefield and gone into dithering tangents like "but but but this other thing over here is the big picture and let's discuss that instead!"

    Frankly, I think surrendering just a little on something minor would do you some good. In the heart of open and honest debate, that is. Now can you test and answer basic conclusions from the survey, or do you insist on ignoring anything that might be slightly damaging to polled Democrats?
    But... but... but... this thing over here... what a joke...

    Edit: This is so irksome... You are explicitly asking to keep the debate basic, not honest. Those are not synonymous...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-04-24 at 01:57 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    While I am in big agreement with anything to help the environment I kind of take it as smoke being blown. All it takes is America to want their every 4 to 8 year "desire for change" to put a Republican in office and it just seems like we convert to burning oil and coal a lot faster than we move away from it.
    Republicans have proven time and time again that they're incapable of governing... Reagen's racism and economy Senior. W. Bush with 9/11 and the war.. and most recently Trump with all of the recent bs.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  6. #106
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Republicans have proven time and time again that they're incapable of governing... Reagen's racism and economy Senior. W. Bush with 9/11 and the war.. and most recently Trump with all of the recent bs.
    I don’t know what to tell you my friend... but, I really want to disagree.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The "Oh, the mortality rate is so low!" is used to justify not taking the virus seriously.
    That is true.

    But while it might be better to take it 'more seriously', my only mention was that Republicans on average better estimate the risks involved. And that Democrat mainstream media is going into overdrive exaggerating. It's also not just about the mortality rate but also about the hospitalization rate. The initial point of discussion was whether or the science was really considered, yet the side who keeps moaning about science, completely unaware of how politically biased it is, isn't always as science-aware as they believe they are and despite their claim to science not always as grounded in reality as the side who does things more based on tradition and common sense.

    Science doesn't hold all the answers.

    There's multiple western countries where the restrictions are nowhere near as strict as they should be, or as strict as I'd like them to be, because various industries are on edge of rioting / revolting if their trade is going to remain locked down: restaurants, pubs, brothels, hairdressers, etc.
    Last edited by Yas-Queen Rochana; 2021-04-24 at 08:33 AM.
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  8. #108
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yas-Queen Rochana View Post
    But while it might be better to take it 'more seriously', my only mention was that Republicans on average better estimate the risks involved.
    No, they didn’t. They downplayed the virus and are now trying to take credit for knowing that their inaction, would be superseded by people who gave a shit.

    And that Democrat mainstream media is going into overdrive exaggerating.
    If mainstream media listened to republicans, the numbers would have been worse than either thought. This is an argument of liars...

    It's also not just about the mortality rate but also about the hospitalization rate. The initial point of discussion was whether or the science was really considered, yet the side who keeps moaning about science, completely unaware of how politically biased it is, isn't always as science-aware as they believe they are and despite their claim to science not always as grounded in reality as the side who does things more based on tradition and common sense.
    This is bullshit... people who believed in science took action, because they didn’t want the expected numbers. Now liars who didn’t do shit, but spread the virus, are trying to take credit for the work everyone else did. How pathetic...

    Science doesn't hold all the answers.
    In this regard it did, because enough people listened, to have better than expected results. We didn’t ignore the virus, as GOP demanded. We listened to science, but you want to take credit for doing nothing? For the labour of others?

    There's multiple western countries where the restrictions are nowhere near as strict as they should be, or as strict as I'd like them to be, because various industries are on edge of rioting / revolting if their trade is going to remain locked down: restaurants, pubs, brothels, hairdressers, etc.
    If republicans were right, why are you saying this? If republicans were right, why would you want things that Democrats demanded, like more strict regulations? Nice gaslighting...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Yas-Queen Rochana View Post
    But while it might be better to take it 'more seriously', my only mention was that Republicans on average better estimate the risks involved. And that Democrat mainstream media is going into overdrive exaggerating.
    And the "Republican mainstream media" was touting injecting disinfectants such as bleach as a cure for covid19. Considering how many didn't vote for Republicans perhaps they did just that.

  10. #110
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And the "Republican mainstream media" was touting injecting disinfectants such as bleach as a cure for covid19. Considering how many didn't vote for them perhaps they did just that.
    It’s double talk... if republicans were right about predictions and science is not right in this case... why does he want it taken more seriously?

    Similar to his last sentence...

    If GOP knew the risks better, why is he still asking to do the opposite, by wanting more restrictions?

    It’s either gaslighting, or a need to defend republicans due to extreme personal bias, even when their own opinion differs.

    Edit: ‘Science is wrong, but I still want more restrictions. Republicans were right, but we should take it more seriously.’ That doesn’t make any sense... if republicans were right and science wrong, why is he still talking about doing what science said?
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-04-24 at 11:13 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Yas-Queen Rochana View Post
    That is true.

    But while it might be better to take it 'more seriously', my only mention was that Republicans on average better estimate the risks involved. And that Democrat mainstream media is going into overdrive exaggerating. It's also not just about the mortality rate but also about the hospitalization rate. The initial point of discussion was whether or the science was really considered, yet the side who keeps moaning about science, completely unaware of how politically biased it is, isn't always as science-aware as they believe they are and despite their claim to science not always as grounded in reality as the side who does things more based on tradition and common sense.

    Science doesn't hold all the answers.

    There's multiple western countries where the restrictions are nowhere near as strict as they should be, or as strict as I'd like them to be, because various industries are on edge of rioting / revolting if their trade is going to remain locked down: restaurants, pubs, brothels, hairdressers, etc.
    Ummm, no they didn't... this is a fucking lie.

    This is as big of a lie as when you pushed your fake concern about sexual assault, before cheering on Trump and his sexual assaults.

    It's as big of a lie as when you said you weren't a Trump supporter, but then supported Trump.

    It's as big of a lie as when you said you were moving to Florida to vote.

    It's as big of a lie as when you swore Biden wasn't progressive enough for you, then you went full alt-righter in front of everyone.

    So, why should anyone believe anything you ever say?

  12. #112
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Ummm, no they didn't... this is a fucking lie.
    Just to point out, Herman Cain still tweets that he was right about covid. That’s what that poll means in a nutshell...

    Edit: If people want to see what the right, being right about covid means... don’t look at US, where people effectively stood up to Trump and his thugs. Look at India and Brazil, where there was no strong counter to right wing policy. That’s what happens when their estimates are acted on...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-04-24 at 11:17 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Just to point out, Herman Cain still tweets that he was right about covid. That’s what that poll means in a nutshell...
    Well, if anyone would know that Covid isn't nearly as bad as people think, it would be Herman Cain.

  14. #114
    This green new deal/climate change is just a scam to line up corporation pockets. But I don't mind too much, I'm just investing heavily in silver miners and uranium since those will be cornerstones of removing the carbon boogieman. I'll make mad bank.

  15. #115
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Well, if anyone would know that Covid isn't nearly as bad as people think, it would be Herman Cain.
    I just miss tact that was harder to tell. Everyone just crutches Tim Pool style, which at this point is so over used, it’s basic. An argument shouldn’t be formed on a premise of a bunch of horrible rhetoric, that then gets justified by one reasonable statement. Everyone should already be keen to this tact.

    When Peterson was rising, we would get these massive posts, with references to Jung and ancient social structures. You needed to think at least a little bit, because that was a lot of foundation. You had to notice the shifts or the inconsistency being subtle. Now in the era of Tim Pool conservatives... it’s a jackhammer... His first tweet... “Voting rights for all!”... followed by second tweet “can only be achieved with a fully armed society. Free guns for all!”...

    Philistine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    This green new deal/climate change is just a scam to line up corporation pockets.
    Then why do corporations spend fortunes to lobby against it?

    Edit: I don’t understand why I should listen to oil and coal, telling me that greens new deal is bad, because it helps corporations. Should I also listen to republicans who want to cancel MLB judicially, while complaining about corporations... or should I look at a former Exxon CEO being a Secretary of State, just 4 years ago? How about 4 years of a real estate mogul, NYC oligarch, as president?

    We are in an age when being populist, requires a bit more specifics... we literally just had a NYC elite pretend to be populist and like 70+ million people bought it.
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-04-24 at 11:38 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Now in the era of Tim Pool conservatives... it’s a jackhammer... His first tweet... “Voting rights for all!”... followed by second tweet “can only be achieved with a fully armed society. Free guns for all!”...
    Wait, is that real?
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I just miss tact that was harder to tell. Everyone just crutches Tim Pool style, which at this point is so over used, it’s basic. An argument shouldn’t be formed on a premise of a bunch of horrible rhetoric, that then gets justified by one reasonable statement. Everyone should already be keen to this tact.

    When Peterson was rising, we would get these massive posts, with references to Jung and ancient social structures. You needed to think at least a little bit, because that was a lot of foundation. You had to notice the shifts or the inconsistency being subtle. Now in the era of Tim Pool conservatives... it’s a jackhammer... His first tweet... “Voting rights for all!”... followed by second tweet “can only be achieved with a fully armed society. Free guns for all!”...

    Philistine...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then why do corporations spend fortunes to lobby against it?

    Edit: I don’t understand why I should listen to oil and coal, telling me that greens new deal is bad, because it helps corporations. Should I also listen to republicans who want to cancel MLB judicially, while complaining about corporations... or should I look at a former Exxon CEO being a Secretary of State, just 4 years ago? How about 4 years of a real estate mogul, NYC oligarch, as president?

    We are in an age when being populist, requires a bit more specifics... we literally just had a NYC elite pretend to be populist and like 70+ million people bought it.
    Because corporations aren't a hivemind? they're not all single entities allied to each other, scheming to rip you off.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s double talk... if republicans were right about predictions and science is not right in this case... why does he want it taken more seriously?
    The problem is... Republicans are more right about/aligned with what science says then Democrats. Educated ones more so. Democrats largely move away from scientific consensus toward fearmongering territory.

    That's what those polls above say.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    The problem is... Republicans are more right about/aligned with what science says then Democrats. Educated ones more so. Democrats largely move away from scientific consensus toward fearmongering territory. That's what those polls above say.
    Pfft...there are less republican voters these days thanks to their idiotic beliefs.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    The problem is... Republicans are more right about/aligned with what science says then Democrats. Educated ones more so. Democrats largely move away from scientific consensus toward fearmongering territory.

    That's what those polls above say.
    That's not what those polls say. Those polls are statistics, which are then parallel with what people estimate it to be; which you'll notice they both overestimate and underestimate, often within a single percentage point.

    And I might also add, that a half a million people dead, several more having had to be hospitalized, and many more will have either long term or chronical issues; would warrant that people overestimate it via "fearmongering". You don't get a special prize for being slightly less wrong about the exact number then others, as it is still ravaging several people's lives.

    That's a special kind of logic to run, especially since that kind of attitude would make the likelihood of it rising to a level where you are no longer right, bigger.

    Edit: it is also kind of funny, because Republicans might have slightly less overestimated or underestimated the numbers, but then fail in accessing if it was a big number comparatively by a whole other magnitude.
    Last edited by Howel; 2021-04-24 at 01:42 PM.
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