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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    It's not only not the highest, but it's laughably low, with no hope of ever progressing any better. I get my 190-200 gear, and then what? I queue for random BG after random BG, get stomped all day every day, and come out with nothing to show for it. Why would I pay for a sub if I'm just going to be treated like the game's punching bag? The harsh community standards are made up? So raiderio and log standards within guilds don't exist, is that what you're saying?
    Who cares if it is laughably low? What else are you doing in the game? Stop reaching above the level you can obtain. You won't get stomped all day every day from your item level being 200 in random battlegrounds. I do just fine and I'm around 200 item level. You also get something to show from it for doing PvP even if you personally get stomped. Honor and Conquest. In a BG you can die a lot and as long as you help support your team you can still win.

    You are not being treated like the games punching bag. You are being treated at the content level you can complete within your ability. You keep making everything out where you are the victim. And yes your harsh view of all of the community is made up. A person like yourself looking to get into a normal mode raid won't be needing raider.io or logs to get accepted or in. Everything you keep saying you do doesn't match up for the skill or spot you could realistically get.

    Instead it seems like you keep trying to get into Mythic guilds while barely being able to handle LFR. Which doesn't mean the community is harsh it just means you want more then you are able to do and get upset when people don't carry you.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #402
    The sad white knights and simps defending Shadowlands like it's good and not the bore fest, generic expansion it really is.

    Once level 60 and Campaign / Covenant stuff done there's only the grind of M+ and Raiding. That's it.

    We're like 6 months into the expansion and still months away from new content in 9.1 due in July / August per everything I read and hear.

    WoW is so much better when there's other end game content like Class Halls, Artifact weapons appearances, class mounts, Mage Tower, or the cool MoP dungeon runs for the Champion gear.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Who cares if it is laughably low? What else are you doing in the game? Stop reaching above the level you can obtain. You won't get stomped all day every day from your item level being 200 in random battlegrounds. I do just fine and I'm around 200 item level. You also get something to show from it for doing PvP even if you personally get stomped. Honor and Conquest. In a BG you can die a lot and as long as you help support your team you can still win.
    What can you spend the honor and conquest on if you're not doing rated PvP?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You are not being treated like the games punching bag. You are being treated at the content level you can complete within your ability. You keep making everything out where you are the victim. And yes your harsh view of all of the community is made up. A person like yourself looking to get into a normal mode raid won't be needing raider.io or logs to get accepted or in. Everything you keep saying you do doesn't match up for the skill or spot you could realistically get.
    I'm being treated like a punching bag if my 190-200 self is being put into a viper's pit full of 220+ folks.

    Anytime I say "I'm looking for a guild" the response tends to be "you'll always find a good guild if you have good logs", but what if you don't have good logs? What if you just want a good, kind normal/heroic guild to have fun with and learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Instead it seems like you keep trying to get into Mythic guilds while barely being able to handle LFR. Which doesn't mean the community is harsh it just means you want more then you are able to do and get upset when people don't carry you.
    Never said any of that. I'm not trying to join mythic guilds and I'm not asking for carries. I just want to be able to play the game without feeling like the scum of the community.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Because elitists cry really hard anytime they aren't special snowflakes.
    that

    its the only answer you need

    and for peoples saying why blizzard should give high stuff to casual too ? hmm... because we pay the same amount of cash each month for the game ? and we love to see our character going up in power ?

    and before you told us to go in a high guild and go do 1000 hours of pvp or mythic raid, we dont do it, because its a old concept and boring like sh**, blizzard are too lazy actually, they should put a lot of rpg event in the game, a lot of different pve event to actually make the game a real MMORPG, but nah, they too lazy and only love doing nothing more than 1 raid each 3-4 month
    Last edited by kaintk; 2021-04-25 at 01:32 AM.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    What can you spend the honor and conquest on if you're not doing rated PvP? .
    Gear to get 200. Why do you need rated PvP gear if your no interested in rated PvP? You are not being treated like a punching bag in random BG's if your gear is around 200 because it isn't just about 1v1 dueling. If the response is always you need good logs then you are asking the wrong people are setting your sights on on a certain definition of good rather then a normal mode good guild.

    There are plenty of good kind normal guilds out there looking for people. You can play the game with out feeling like the scum of the community. The problem is all the posts you have made recently talking about having to spend hours watching videos for any encounter, having your logs analyzed on class discord, and all of the other extreme stuff you've said you have done just for normal mode play shows that there is either exaggeration on your part or something else is at play. Because you don't need to do that stuff for majority of the normal mode guilds. You don't even need to do all of that stuff to learn a rotation and follow it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    that

    its the only answer you need

    and for peoples saying why blizzard should give high stuff to casual too ? hmm... because we pay the same amount of cash each month for the game ? and we love to see our character going up in power ?

    and before you told us to go in a high guild and go do 1000 hours of pvp or mythic raid, we dont do it, because its a old concept and boring like sh**, blizzard are too lazy actually, they should put a lot of rpg event in the game, a lot of different pve event to actually make the game a real MMORPG, but nah, they too lazy and only love doing nothing more than 1 raid each 3-4 month
    You pay to have access to the same content, your sub is not for the rewards. In your opinion how should blizzard grant you the items? And try to be specific not some "by doing content" answer, I mean time/skill/effort investments

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    and before you told us to go in a high guild and go do 1000 hours of pvp or mythic raid, we dont do it, because its a old concept and boring like sh**, blizzard are too lazy actually, they should put a lot of rpg event in the game, a lot of different pve event to actually make the game a real MMORPG, but nah, they too lazy and only love doing nothing more than 1 raid each 3-4 month
    So then you don't need high level gear. You can still progress your character and have it grow in power. The ceiling is just set lower if you refuse to do higher difficulty content. There is nothing wrong with that at all. And there is no reason to demand you be given that higher level gear when you don't need it for the content you do do. The rewards you can get are equivalent for the level you choose to play.

    Besides if those concepts are old and boring why are you even saying you want high stuff? That is old and boring isn't it? Why do you need more then normal level loot if you never plan to play higher then normal?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Gear to get 200. Why do you need rated PvP gear if your no interested in rated PvP?
    Because you're fighting with rated PvPers even in random PvP. For a PvE comparison, it is like having a boss in a heroic dungeon randomly morph into its +15 tyrannical incarnation. Would that be fair?

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Because you're fighting with rated PvPers even in random PvP. For a PvE comparison, it is like having a boss in a heroic dungeon randomly morph into its +15 tyrannical incarnation. Would that be fair?
    You are rarely facing a full time of max geared players in a battleground though. From everything you've posted before it isn't the gear that would be your problem but your struggle with the rotation/class mechanics. You'll also have team mates that are higher geared then you if what you say is true. So just stick near them and help out. Play the objectives be the fodder so the others live. Win Win.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You are rarely facing a full time of max geared players in a battleground though. From everything you've posted before it isn't the gear that would be your problem but your struggle with the rotation/class mechanics. You'll also have team mates that are higher geared then you if what you say is true. So just stick near them and help out. Play the objectives be the fodder so the others live. Win Win.
    I would still rather lose a skill based fight than a gear one. The skill fight at least isn't totally one-sided and I could actually learn something from a loss. If my 200 faces down a 226, what hope is there to win?

    Yes I could just stick with the group like a baby to its mother and plink pathetically at my opponents with what gear I have, but what fun is that? I'm going to die the minute they look at me, or if they happen to ambush me on the road when I'm trying to run to the group. I don't want to pay 15 a month to be someone else's punching bag and fodder. What was wrong with the system we had before where we could slowly earn good conquest gear?

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Yes I could just stick with the group like a baby to its mother and plink pathetically at my opponents with what gear I have, but what fun is that? I'm going to die the minute they look at me, or if they happen to ambush me on the road when I'm trying to run to the group. I don't want to pay 15 a month to be someone else's punching bag and fodder. What was wrong with the system we had before where we could slowly earn good conquest gear?
    You won't die the miniute they look at you and even if they do focus on you that means your team mate survives that much longer. You are aware that battlegrounds are a team objective thing rather then a 1v1 duel in the center of the map right? Anyone can get ambushed on the road regardless of gear. You say you would rather lose a skill battle but never stop and consider if it is your skill holding you back rather then your gear. And given your own posts it is skill. You take the easy road of whining about everything else.

    Slowly earning it would still mean you are out geared by the highly rated players. Isn't it weird how the system you say was better still has all the pitfalls that you blame the current system for.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You won't die the miniute they look at you and even if they do focus on you that means your team mate survives that much longer. You are aware that battlegrounds are a team objective thing rather then a 1v1 duel in the center of the map right? Anyone can get ambushed on the road regardless of gear. You say you would rather lose a skill battle but never stop and consider if it is your skill holding you back rather then your gear. And given your own posts it is skill. You take the easy road of whining about everything else.

    Slowly earning it would still mean you are out geared by the highly rated players. Isn't it weird how the system you say was better still has all the pitfalls that you blame the current system for.
    I am aware but that doesn't mean 1v1 duels don't happen in random battlegrounds. Sometimes they're necessary. That guy you left alone to defend the mine, for instance. Plus there's the open world to consider with warmode on. Up until now I've done okay in random battlegrounds with the decent (but not the best, of course) conquest gear I was given. I was 460 (and higher later once I mastered 5 mask visions) in BfA when everyone else was 475. That wasn't bad. When I lost fights it typically was because I was outplayed. If I joined up in SL? Unless I'm given the choice to fight only other 200 folks, it probably will be purely a gear issue. Still haven't answered the question, why should I pay 15 a month if all I have to look forward to is being a simpering minion at best, or sacrificial fodder at worst?

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    When I lost fights it typically was because I was outplayed. If I joined up in SL? Unless I'm given the choice to fight only other 200 folks, it probably will be purely a gear issue. Still haven't answered the question, why should I pay 15 a month if all I have to look forward to is being a simpering minion at best, or sacrificial fodder at worst?
    Don't make excuses it won't probably be a purely gear issue if you were losing to better players before. If you lost to better plays before you would still be doing it now. And if you are as skilled as you are trying to claim you would have no problem getting better PvP gear now. You are not a simpering minion at best or sacrificial fodder at worst. Stop playing the victim card because you are a terrible player and can't face that fact.

    You pay to play. You don't pay to be equal to others. If you don't enjoy playing then stop playing. There is nothing wrong with that and that is how it will always be. If you can't enjoy the game because you are not given high level gear for no effort then quit. But given all your past posts it isn't just about the gear level because you have a skewed perception of everything that is required to do anything in the game.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53143227

    The common denominator here is you and not the game design.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Don't make excuses it won't probably be a purely gear issue if you were losing to better players before. If you lost to better plays before you would still be doing it now. And if you are as skilled as you are trying to claim you would have no problem getting better PvP gear now. You are not a simpering minion at best or sacrificial fodder at worst. Stop playing the victim card because you are a terrible player and can't face that fact.
    I could turn that right back around on you; if I am that bad of a player, why would it matter if I can acquire decent gear? I'd still be trashed left and right, correct? Except I would be losing fair fights and any skill based issues would in fact be on me.

    But yeah, I'm not going to resub and pay for the game if all I have to look forward to is being a second-class citizen. We'll see how the game does in the near future when all the players like me are driven off and Blizz loses that funding.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    I could turn that right back around on you; if I am that bad of a player, why would it matter if I can acquire decent gear? I'd still be trashed left and right, correct? Except I would be losing fair fights and any skill based issues would in fact be on me.
    Because you don't need higher gear for the content you choose to do. Higher item level gear is the reward for the content you play. The more difficult you do the better gear you get. So you don't get that reward if you don't do the content that offers it. Why should you get the reward when not doing the content that offers it? Why do you deserve something for nothing? The gear you can get is more then sufficient for the content you choose to do.

    You are choosing to be the second class citizen with your outlook. It isn't something the game forces on you. You keep using item level as this status symbol when it really isn't. If all the players like you are driven away then the game will likely do better simply because you won't have people acting arrogant and demanding. The rewards have been more then enough to clear the content you get them from for a while. Again you play the victim card. The game would not be better if you got handed the best gear for no effort. You'd just quit when you hit the skill wall and find a new excuse to rage about.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because you don't need higher gear for the content you choose to do.
    Except I do because I don't get a choice to fight people my own level.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    They've been doing similar shit since Legion at this point. All the people proclaiming how the numbers are tanking and it's a BIG FAIL, are just shining a light on their own lack of critical thinking skills.

    If they continue with X for years on end, they're probably seeing that it works for their bottom line and retention. You might not like it, I sure as fuck don't, but claiming that the strategies are failing as a nobody with zero insight and lots of emotions vs the ones making decisions based on literal numbers, is pathetic. Generally speaking having seen the drivel written throughout the thread, often by the same posters.

    I'd say that voting with your wallet works, but I've seen the same inane discussions and sentiments on here for 11 years at this point and the game never went anywhere but forward in its development. Sad as it is.

    If SL shows very bad results in the next quarterly, PERHAPS there'll be changes made. But it didn't happen throughout BfA, so why now? Meh... Everyone I know seems to be infatuated for some reason. Each to their own.

    I'm not a casual player btw, and I feel as if the game's designed against me and my way of playing these past years.
    When most people say "design the game for (insert group), what they really do mean 99% of the time is "design the game for me". "Casuals" is such a vast umbrella as to be nearly impossible to actually define (is someone in a 1 day/week Normal/Heroic guild that doesn't have AOTC yet and does +7 dungeons casual? is a 1500 PvPer who does 10 Arena matches and pugs a couple bosses/week? Is a casual only someone who picks herbs and farms mogs? Who tf knows), and so conveniently it's easy to define "casual" as "myself" and thus say Blizzard doesn't design the game for said casuals.

    Conveniently this also serves the opposite, "casuals" can easily be defined as the enemy by some of more hardcore players and thus "catering to the casuals" can be the source of all humanity's woes. This game just has so many different demographics that are constantly at war with each other.

    There's a lot of me-too followings there as well. Popular Youtubers read the room and start shitting on the game again when the honeymoon phase of the xpack is over, leading to more people parroting their views about how WoW is dying and (current expansion) is the worst ever because X. I believe it's called a feedback loop.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Except I do because I don't get a choice to fight people my own level.
    An equal item level wouldn't help you so that doesn't matter.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    An equal item level wouldn't help you so that doesn't matter.
    It would still be a fair fight.

    You'd probably be okay with LeBron James competing in high school basketball games.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    It would still be a fair fight. You'd probably be okay with LeBron James competing in high school basketball games.
    How would it be a fair fight when you've admitted you struggle playing your chosen class? If you have that level of skill why are you not pugging for better PvP gear? And you are the type of person that plays high school sports but demands a NBA contract. But hey you really are a NBA level player it is just the game that keeps you down. Right?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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