Why is end game tailored so much against the casual player?

[Crimson Spears]

I'll admit that the pointless pessimism about everything Blizzard does (or doesn't do) rampant on this forum is right up there with the flat earth theory but it's not my job to convince you otherwise. My point remains the same as it was in the first response I had to @SirCowdog -- you guys are less upset that the game changed as you are that the game changed in ways that you weren't personally consulted about first. It's cute that you feel like your opinions are so important but so are those of the developers who respond to feedback we never see on this forum.

You can be honest with feedback and point out errors in a hope they improve or mindless praise shit till more is piled onto your plate. I won't mock your diet but some of us use honesty rather then blind fanboyism.

You are also moving the goal post again...its really not that hard to say you were utterly and completely wrong you know.

[arr0gance]

You can be honest with feedback and point out errors in a hope they improve or mindless praise shit till more is piled onto your plate. I won't mock your diet but some of us use honesty rather then blind fanboyism.

You are also moving the goal post again...its really not that hard to say you were utterly and completely wrong you know.

We've already been over this about 100 posts ago. I told you it wasn't worth engaging in the debate over what constitutes innovation because no matter what example I give you, you'll just provide a pointless counterargument which conveniently aligns with your opinion about what the game should have done instead. The pretense of my opinion is not "mindless praise" of Blizzard but rather that seeking validation of a negative opinion on a fan forum is a lot easier than admitting that Blizzard often responds to feedback from players who do not post on forums.

[LordTakeo]

Another one of those threads?
For gear: The Vault exists.
For everything else: Guilds.

And I mean, nothing is stopping you from playing with 3 tanks, or multible more healers.
Quite, literally nothing.
Sun-King even encourages you to get more heals in.

But alas, what works the most efficient, is what will be meta, and what will be played by high-end.
You likely don't -see- alot of people in pugs doing it this way, because they just wanna get done with it. Or because, why mention it? How many great good deeds aren't covered by newspapers daily? It doesn't mean they don't exist.

In guilds though, content is pretty varied, I myself just specced to Holy Paladin to focus on group HP, while doing somewhat decent dps aswell, while the main heals just focus on Kael.
You could use more tanks and/or healer depending on what you find easier to play with, but alas... more DPS = Lesser Phases = less mana spent = less heal needed.
So usually, it always comes down to 2 tanks, 2-3 healers, depending on class and or gear, and the rest filled with DPS.
Some like to have a few immunity classes to deal with Artificers traps, cleaning those up.
Some like to bring warlocks for gates, shamans for Wind-totem, or druids for roar.
Yada yada, whichever tool you want to have for your encounters really.

It's not really just this boring old "do dps, forget everything" anymore, since even DPS can dispell curses/deseases/poisons. Heck, even in Nyalotha, breaking slows was huge for the 1 free mythic boss every week in pugs. Tigers lust & freedom, anyone?
Just get yourself a community that likes these sort of things, and play how you prefere!

[rhorle]

No you just got brutally and unmercifully proven wrong but now your trying to hide behind a paper shield. Come on now I know you can do it, Just fess up.

Because it's easier to copy/paste a formula that caters to an existing, entrenched, addicted fanbase than risk innovation.

The person originally used the word innovation then argued that someone else was moving the goal posts by using the word innovation. Your idea of brutally wrong is brutally wrong. Will you fess up? By the way who's alt account are you because I'm pretty sure you didn't just decide out of the blue to start a career of angry antagonist on this fansite.

[Crimson Spears]

We've already been over this about 100 posts ago. I told you it wasn't worth engaging in the debate over what constitutes innovation because no matter what example I give you, you'll just provide a pointless counterargument which conveniently aligns with your opinion about what the game should have done instead. The pretense of my opinion is not "mindless praise" of Blizzard but rather that seeking validation of a negative opinion on a fan forum is a lot easier than admitting that Blizzard often responds to feedback from players who do not post on forums.

What a weird way to say every point you try to make is constantly countered and after tiring of looking like the fool you are you flee.

[Araya]

They've openly said the vast majority of players aren't even in the current expansion and don't know about a new one until years later. So following that, making end game content for casuals would be serving a base that will almost certainly never do that content when its anywhere near current.

[rhorle]

They've openly said the vast majority of players aren't even in the current expansion and don't know about a new one until years later. So following that, making end game content for casuals would be serving a base that will almost certainly never do that content when its anywhere near current.

I highly doubt they have actually said that since it is hard to miss when a new expansion launches. There might be a sizable portion that don't buy it right away or something. But it almost impossible to miss that a new expansion has launched.

[arr0gance]

What a weird way to say every point you try to make is constantly countered and after tiring of looking like the fool you are you flee.

It's specifically to state that I don't care to get dragged into pedantry and would rather focus on what my actual fucking opinion is rather than ridiculous arguments about whose opinion is more relevant than whose.

[SirCowdog]

If you're just going to relent to pedantry there's no point in engaging any further in this discussion.

Says the guy who's spent several pages avoiding actually supporting his argument, and instead resorting entirely to evasion, insults, and logical fallacies.

Ok guys, stop feeding the T. It's blatantly obvious what's going on here now.

[rhorle]

Says the guy who's spent several pages avoiding actually supporting his argument, and instead resorting entirely to evasion, insults, and logical fallacies. Ok guys, stop feeding the T. It's blatantly obvious what's going on here now.

Your last two posts have been avoiding the conversation while another account acts as an attack dog for you. Are you talking about feeding you or them here?

[Crimson Spears]

It's specifically to state that I don't care to get dragged into pedantry and would rather focus on what my actual fucking opinion is rather than ridiculous arguments about whose opinion is more relevant than whose.

I am focusing on what your opinion was don't blame me that it was a moronic one to have. The person in the mirror is the one who had it.

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Your last two posts have been avoiding the conversation while another account acts as an attack dog for you. Are you talking about feeding you or them here?

Can't it be both?

One of the worst things any community can have happen with it is it's members stop taking a firm hand with those spouting dribble. If you confront them and painfully make them out to be the fool they are acting to everyone eventually they stop and the conversation is lifted.

[arr0gance]

I am focusing on what your opinion was don't blame me that it was a moronic one to have. The person in the mirror is the one who had it.

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Can't it be both?

One of the worst things any community can have happen with it is it's members stop taking a firm hand with those spouting dribble. If you confront them and painfully make them out to be the fool they are acting to everyone eventually they stop and the conversation is lifted.

Lol, it's funny both you and @SirCowdog keep saying that I'm "insulting" you and that you're "making a fool out of me," when I've not only given you the examples you've both asked for but I have not insulted either of you in any of my posts. If you don't care to address what I'm saying, that's fine. Enjoy your negativity circlejerk.

[rhorle]

One of the worst things any community can have happen with it is it's members stop taking a firm hand with those spouting dribble. If you confront them and painfully make them out to be the fool they are acting to everyone eventually they stop and the conversation is lifted.

Then why haven't you stopped when confronted about calling someone wrong when they were actually correct? Weird huh? So no it is not both because you don't try to stop a fool by being the bigger fool. Lol. No wonder you are so angry in most of your responses and why you only attack one fool rather then both.

[Mardux]

Because elitists cry really hard anytime they aren't special snowflakes.

Almost as much as the "casuals" like crying about anyone even slightly less casual.

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Lol, it's funny both you and @SirCowdog keep saying that I'm "insulting" you and that you're "making a fool out of me," when I've not only given you the examples you've both asked for but I have not insulted either of you in any of my posts. If you don't care to address what I'm saying, that's fine. Enjoy your negativity circlejerk.

Why is their "negativity circlejerk" worse than your own?

[tripleh]

Because some top end guilds/groups not all, make money off it in the long run. Selling carries and item drops to anyone willing to pay real life money. One could speculate that the devs might actually be apart of this. Controlling game mechanics while raiding within a guild gives good oppurtunity to make extra cash. Also if there upset at there own job with cuts and layoffs expecting more work. It's a good way to hit back at actv/blizz for them. Put yourself in there position.

[arr0gance]

Why is their "negativity circlejerk" worse than your own?

Because "DAE Blizzard BAD" is about the most pointless thing anybody on this forum can discuss yet it seems that a staggering amount of people who post here simply want validation of this extremely boring opinion.

[Osmeric]

It is not tailored "against casual players", it is tailored "towards hardcore players". Feel the difference.

I will argue that an MMO that in any way highlights difficult content is, in fact, "against casual (i.e., bad or mediocre) players". That's because the game will inevitably and constantly remind those players that they aren't great. Who wants to pay for that?

[Crimson Spears]

I will argue that an MMO that in any way highlights difficult content is, in fact, "against casual (i.e., bad or mediocre) players". That's because the game will inevitably and constantly remind those players that they aren't great. Who wants to pay for that?

Isn't that every game ever?

Games are almost universally competitive even easier mmos like final fantasy highlight harder content with exclusive armor designs and better gear.

[Osmeric]

Isn't that every game ever?

It's especially a problem in an MMO, where (as we are constantly told here) you're supposed to be all social and interacting with many others.

How are single player games competitive?

[SirCowdog]

another account acts as an attack dog for you.

Are they really? I admit to only skimming posts that aren't direct quotes of my own messages. I'm accustomed to assuming I get no support in my arguments, usually because I take an unpopular stance.

But go take a look at the post change. I made a fairly mild statement about blizzard, immediately followed by being attacked....followed by that poster continuously refusing to make any points in favor of insults and evasions.

I know you don't like me Rhorle. But take a step back and look at the chain of events more objectively.

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I've not only given you the examples you've both asked for.

Ok...I'll extend an olive branch. Because maybe I just missed it. Can you link or quote the post where you gave solid examples?

As for insults, lets not forget that you opened on me with this gem of a strawman:

"What you mean is, "the devs didn't do what I, the center of the known universe and the only human being whose opinion matters"

How did you mean that to come across if not insulting?