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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    The carrot is still there, you just choose to ignore it. It's not the WoW dev's fault you've erected this pointless barrier to your own progression.
    Actualy it is developers fault if way they desing content makes you ignore higher difficulties. If you give players 100% of wow content on silver plate trough easy mods, lfr, lfg, etc. You cant expect them to care about carrot. Becouse that carrot is nothing but better gear what have no purpose but to make you stronger fot sake of getting stronger.

    Back in Vannila and TBC you wanted to be stronger to defeated harder content. Not higher difficulty of same content but actual harder new content with new bosses, new lore in completly new raid. Thats major difference between past and current sructure of wow content.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    Actualy it is developers fault if way they desing content makes you ignore higher difficulties. If you give players 100% of wow content on silver plate trough easy mods, lfr, lfg, etc. You cant expect them to care about carrot. Becouse that carrot is nothing but better gear what have no purpose but to make you stronger fot sake of getting stronger.

    Back in Vannila and TBC you wanted to be stronger to defeated harder content. Not higher difficulty of same content but actual harder new content with new bosses, new lore in completly new raid. Thats major difference between past and current sructure of wow content.
    But the higher difficulties have new mechanics that actually change the encounters. If that doesn't interest you its fine, but it does interest a lot of players.

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    I'm struggling to understand the point here. Casuals don't need most of the stuff being described. If you're min-maxing as a casual then why the fuck are you a casual LMAO
    Because while you might not have the time to play much, or do 'serious' content, you also want to use what time to do have efficiently. That means, among other things, having good gear so you don't spend ages killing stuff due to poor gear or worse due to your poor gear making mistakes that would be survivable in good gear turn into death runs. As Blizzard has seen fit to make the last four expansions' zones difficult to get around and tends to put the graveyards in really annoying places, a death is often a significant time loss.

    So yes, 'causals' have every reason to want the best gear they can get, and to want that gear to be good.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Because while you might not have the time to play much, or do 'serious' content, you also want to use what time to do have efficiently. That means, among other things, having good gear so you don't spend ages killing stuff due to poor gear or worse due to your poor gear making mistakes that would be survivable in good gear turn into death runs. As Blizzard has seen fit to make the last four expansions' zones difficult to get around and tends to put the graveyards in really annoying places, a death is often a significant time loss.

    So yes, 'causals' have every reason to want the best gear they can get, and to want that gear to be good.
    Then they should spend time doing it...

    A mythic 15 by design takes roughly 30mins.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    By standards you mean "Bodies who can fill slots to funnel gear to the RL and his buddies". That is what trials are used for.
    Well, I don't want to join your guild then, because in my books trials are for testing people if they are good enough addition to the team.

  6. #666
    I love how the casuals here are whining they want mythic raid gear, do +20's and max rated pvp with 0 effort "because they deserve it"

    If you don't do the content, you don't deserve, nor need the gear.

    it's really not a hard concept to grasp.. but alas, the people that defend such casual "I deserve X because I pay" are also the types that go on Facebook/reddit "omg corona is a hoax!!!!"

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Because while you might not have the time to play much, or do 'serious' content, you also want to use what time to do have efficiently. That means, among other things, having good gear so you don't spend ages killing stuff due to poor gear or worse due to your poor gear making mistakes that would be survivable in good gear turn into death runs. As Blizzard has seen fit to make the last four expansions' zones difficult to get around and tends to put the graveyards in really annoying places, a death is often a significant time loss.

    So yes, 'causals' have every reason to want the best gear they can get, and to want that gear to be good.
    You can want it
    I mean I want a new car but it doesn’t mean it will magically appear

    Also I would almost be inclined to agree with you if it wasn’t for the fact that 200ilvl with the covenant set bonus is a big survivability boost and outside of pulling a bunch of mobs you’ll be fine

  8. #668
    the games made for esports now. players was back in bc vanilla wrath cata mists wod.
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Because while you might not have the time to play much, or do 'serious' content, you also want to use what time to do have efficiently. That means, among other things, having good gear so you don't spend ages killing stuff due to poor gear or worse due to your poor gear making mistakes that would be survivable in good gear turn into death runs. As Blizzard has seen fit to make the last four expansions' zones difficult to get around and tends to put the graveyards in really annoying places, a death is often a significant time loss. So yes, 'causals' have every reason to want the best gear they can get, and to want that gear to be good.
    Have you played the game recently? Because I don't think you have given how you think it takes ages to kill stuff with item level 200. World content isn't that hard because the item level ceiling for non-group content is set so high in Shadowlands. It is equal to Mythic 4 and Mythic 5. The covenant is set to Mythic 6. If someone has trouble doing the world content then it isn't from gear but player ability.

    Casuals, no matter how you define it, have every right and reason to want good gear. That gear is currently good. It is not the best but it is more then good enough. You don't need 200+ in order to do any of the world content.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Have you played the game recently? Because I don't think you have given how you think it takes ages to kill stuff with item level 200. World content isn't that hard because the item level ceiling for non-group content is set so high in Shadowlands. It is equal to Mythic 4 and Mythic 5. The covenant is set to Mythic 6. If someone has trouble doing the world content then it isn't from gear but player ability.

    Casuals, no matter how you define it, have every right and reason to want good gear. That gear is currently good. It is not the best but it is more then good enough. You don't need 200+ in order to do any of the world content.
    Let's not even mention that you can literally buy a 197 set with an outdoor bonus, in fact, you get the whole set for free you just need to upgrade it.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazr View Post
    Well...Ion was an Elitest Jerk, for one thing. Still is, in a more literal sense.
    and Ion is not in charge of wow... you may check who jhon hight is and come back here even if ion wants 10 226 items to drop form 1 WQ he needs jhons aprove for it
    I.O BFA Season 3


  12. #672
    Endgame is very casual friendly compared to what I'm used to: Classic and end of Wrath/early Cata, which is when I played retail last time. All the 'hardships' you describe are not even a factor if you're doing mythic raiding. Sure, you're not going to be pushing for world first, but I dont think anyone is expecting it. The biggest factor is how well you play and how well your raid leader manages the raid. Sure, if you're playing in a pug the requirements for optimization are going to be much higher because you're hedging for a lot of things that are outside of your control.
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  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    there is a carrot but instead of it being right in front of you like a twinkie with chris griffon you have to ask someone to help you both get a carrot and that level of human interaction is asking too much
    that is the best definition of the 90% of mmo champions self proclaimed "casuals" i have seen so far lol
    I.O BFA Season 3


  14. #674
    because Ion was a hardcore raider before working for blizzard
    he think that raiding old school for stuff is the only way to go in WoW, he's old school, boring and should be replace with someone who is more open to raider, casual , pvper people

    imagine developping a game for only around 15% of the players (the raider) and thinking its fine, well, its not, its why the game is dying and lot of casual people are leaving the game

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Well, I don't want to join your guild then, because in my books trials are for testing people if they are good enough addition to the team.
    Not my guild that does that. The guilds that do that contain the people whining that master looter was removed.

  16. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    I love how the casuals here are whining they want mythic raid gear, do +20's and max rated pvp with 0 effort "because they deserve it"

    If you don't do the content, you don't deserve, nor need the gear.

    it's really not a hard concept to grasp.. but alas, the people that defend such casual "I deserve X because I pay" are also the types that go on Facebook/reddit "omg corona is a hoax!!!!"
    Between strawmen, ad hominem and wild reaching, this post is a small jewel indeed. Even for MMOC standards
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    because Ion was a hardcore raider before working for blizzard
    he think that raiding old school for stuff is the only way to go in WoW, he's old school, boring and should be replace with someone who is more open to raider, casual , pvper people

    imagine developping a game for only around 15% of the players (the raider) and thinking its fine, well, its not, its why the game is dying and lot of casual people are leaving the game
    Yeah because raiders are the ones that got told “the covenant system will be fine shut up you elitists”

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Not my guild that does that. The guilds that do that contain the people whining that master looter was removed.
    Oh stop with that garbage

    The whole “guilds never gave fear to trials” was based on forum posts and most of them got debunked by other raiders that were in the same guild

    Poor jimmy didn’t get the BiS trinket from the progression boss so he’s obviously not getting loot...ignoring the loot from the farm bosses that he got which were about 3-5

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Between strawmen, ad hominem and wild reaching, this post is a small jewel indeed. Even for MMOC standards
    It fits this thread

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Between strawmen, ad hominem and wild reaching, this post is a small jewel indeed. Even for MMOC standards
    You mean like "casuals" claiming they are BLOCKED from content, unable to get into M+2 or even M0, constantly "kicked" from heroic dungeons, every group is toxic, etc etc etc. Both "sides" have put forward some ridiculous scenarios and presented them as the norm to try and strengthen their case.

    To this day, no one has been able to specify a first tier of any expansion in wows history where solo players were able to obtain as much gear as they can now, at such a high power level compared to raid gear. Why has no one been able to answer that question?
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Not my guild that does that. The guilds that do that contain the people whining that master looter was removed.
    Master Loot was a good thing for decent guilds and that's a case where decent people get mashed into some bottom feeding scum, but no decent progression guild who has more ambition than just 2k world rank will distribute loot based on something which is not in the interest in progression
    Last edited by erifwodahs; 2021-04-30 at 06:36 AM. Reason: grammar

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Master Loot was a good thing for decent guilds and that's a case where decent people get mashed into some bottom feeding scum, but no decent progression guild who has more ambition than just 2k world rank won't distribute loot based on something which is not in the interest in progression
    Its one of those situations where a few bad apples ruined it for everyone. Look, honestly, I dont mind the changes to loot - I typically play with a committed group, and we have never had any real issues with loot. Under ML we had a very simple philosophy if we were forced to bring a pug for any reason - we need them as much as they need us. If they were there for the kill, and participated, they have as much right to loot as anyone else. Granted, this only really became common at all during BfA, when it was no longer an issue anyway, but we never hogged loot.

    In all my years of raiding I HAVE seen loot get "ninjad" a few times, but it is heavily outweighed by the countless times it was not an issue at all. I think its one of those situations where a pug gets loot taken from them that they feel is rightfully theirs, and thats the only event they remember - they forget the dozens or hundreds of time they DID get the loot, and only remember that one time that hunter ML pinched DST and disbanded the group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.

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