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  1. #721
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    I dont have any of that. I havent done anything above LFR since WoD.
    Well its largely irrelevant anyway. The game is most definitely not too casual friendly nor is the answer to make it less casual friendly in order to retain casuals. Thats the most blinkered logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The silver lining is, after WoD we got Legion, one of the most content filled and casual friendly expansions ever, if not the most. Here's hoping Blizz re-learns its lesson and gives us another Legion after SL.
    I'm not so sure about that unfortunately given Ions most recent interview. Of course ion could and probably should be replaced but it sounds like he wants to double down on the current direction.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Of course ion could and probably should be replaced but it sounds like he wants to double down on the current direction.
    I think the end result of this approach will be Kotick putting some Activision person in charge of further WoW development.

    (Or, possibly, selling the entire franchise, perhaps to Tencent.)
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Well its largely irrelevant anyway. The game is most definitely not too casual friendly nor is the answer to make it less casual friendly in order to retain casuals. Thats the most blinkered logic.

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    I'm not so sure about that unfortunately given Ions most recent interview. Of course ion could and probably should be replaced but it sounds like he wants to double down on the current direction.
    I think its rather fitting he is in charge. He burns the good players and the bad by making the game more and more hardcore reminds me of the ending of five nights at freddies.



    He made a room with no exit for the warring players... a maze with no prize.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    They’re designing that content around the playerbase that plays it the most. You aren’t the target audience anymore. So either get on board or keep quiet and continue buying the “store mount”-bone they throwout every now and then to appease players who don’t push that content.
    This isn't true. 99% of the playerbase are casuals. We absolutely are the target audience. So either get your facts straight or qft and continue grinding for them higher ilvls.

  5. #725
    most people are garbage not casual

    l2p issue as usual

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think the end result of this approach will be Kotick putting some Activision person in charge of further WoW development. (Or, possibly, selling the entire franchise, perhaps to Tencent.)
    Neither of those two things would happen. Who at Activision would be appointed as game director? They just basically merged all their studios into Blizzard or the COD umbrella. They would appoint someone as oversight of Blizzard rather then game design. And there is no way they would sell Blizzard, or Warcraft, to Tencent. It is crazy the conspiracies people love to cook up.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    This isn't true. 99% of the playerbase are casuals. We absolutely are the target audience. So either get your facts straight or qft and continue grinding for them higher ilvls.

    Exactly, the [H]ardcore Raider base is a small fraction of the millions of WoW subs. I've heard they make up maybe 25%.

    But WoW's core player base are casuals that never step foot inside current Raids.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Shittylands is Raid and M+ or die, nothing else to do.

    There is just nothing in this game besides those two in this terrible expansion

    The Maw fucking blows.

    Torghast royally sucks.

    World Quests are like clocking into a factory job and get to work on the long tedious stupid WQ's that give pretty much useless garbage.

    Covenant campaign is short and gone with quickly.

    This might be the worst expansion to date.
    I like it rather more than I liked BfA. Whether it continues to be better than WoD remains to be seen.

  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Yup well said. Sounds like a dream game for the elite though.

    We'll see how that ends up playing out in due time.
    this game is literally causing the "elite" to quit
    look at how the world first race went this time around because of the systems championed by the casuals and disguised as "meaningful choice" when in reality it was just like the invention of TF and high ilvl wq loot for nothing....a way to make the players that dont take part in the endgame content beyond lfr to try and feel better when comparing themselves so it justifies the excuse "i could do mythic but i have a life" instead of admitting its more than that and 90% of the time its an excuse ebcause they dont want to admit that they cant do content that requires just a teensy weensy bit of personal accountability

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    this game is literally causing the "elite" to quit
    look at how the world first race went this time around because of the systems championed by the casuals and disguised as "meaningful choice" when in reality it was just like the invention of TF and high ilvl wq loot for nothing....a way to make the players that dont take part in the endgame content beyond lfr to try and feel better when comparing themselves so it justifies the excuse "i could do mythic but i have a life" instead of admitting its more than that and 90% of the time its an excuse ebcause they dont want to admit that they cant do content that requires just a teensy weensy bit of personal accountability
    No, it's causing them to whine and complain. They aren't quitting. Check the rosters - they'll be right back at it next tier.

    The people that are largely quitting aren't saying a word. They've been unsubbed for probably 4-5 months now, and they're not coming back. If they DID decide to come back, they're just going to get greeted by blizzards X.2 "catch up" patches that leave them unable to do any content because they're locked behind an arbitrary 4 week grind for X Power like they have been the last 2 expansions in a row. They'll play a week or two and quit again.

    The only time the players return in large numbers is when a final patch brings everyone to the same level, then an expansion launch, and then they all quit 10-12 weeks in again in greater numbers than before because this development team simply will never change the way they design every expansion post-WoD. If you hated BFA 2 months in, you're gonna hate Shadowlands 2 months in. If you hated Shadowlands 2 months in, you're going to hate whatever disaster they cook up next expansion 2 months in.

    Every time - Less and less resubs. Less overall numbers. The slope is going one direction, and will continue to do so.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    If you hated BFA 2 months in, you're gonna hate Shadowlands 2 months in.
    The converse is not true, though. I felt much better about BFA 2 months in than I did about SL. I played BfA all the way through. I stopped playing SL in December (and the sub expired in February).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    No, it's causing them to whine and complain. They aren't quitting. Check the rosters - they'll be right back at it next tier.

    The people that are largely quitting aren't saying a word. They've been unsubbed for probably 4-5 months now, and they're not coming back. If they DID decide to come back, they're just going to get greeted by blizzards X.2 "catch up" patches that leave them unable to do any content because they're locked behind an arbitrary 4 week grind for X Power like they have been the last 2 expansions in a row. They'll play a week or two and quit again.

    The only time the players return in large numbers is when a final patch brings everyone to the same level, then an expansion launch, and then they all quit 10-12 weeks in again in greater numbers than before because this development team simply will never change the way they design every expansion post-WoD. If you hated BFA 2 months in, you're gonna hate Shadowlands 2 months in. If you hated Shadowlands 2 months in, you're going to hate whatever disaster they cook up next expansion 2 months in.

    Every time - Less and less resubs. Less overall numbers. The slope is going one direction, and will continue to do so.
    Pretty much this.

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Indeed. What's great about FFXIV is that the endgame progression is modelled after what WoW used to work like while at its absolute peak.

    Casuals can collect their badges every week from doing pretty relaxed matchmade dungeons and raids and slowly work towards a set of great gear.

    Since their version of time walking is always active you have a staggering amount of dungeons and raids to pull from so it never gets repetitive.

    It's also a lot more social and friendly. You actually have time to talk in dungeons and people are eager to help new players, it's a truly great experience all around.
    Casuals can do 1 m+ or 10 to open more options and it's the same thing as it was at the "peak" you claim of badges and get good gear. This lie that badges are what the game needs right now has got to stop. This other lie that M+ isn't for casuals needs to stop. Yet another lie that seems to call players who log 10 hours a day and yet refuse to do any actual current content and demand gear on par with raiders to be casual players needs to stop. Even someone who plays 4 hours a week can do nathria and m+

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    Hardcore players being the majority? Lol what?
    Not the majority, but the majority of actual income for the company, yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Exactly, the [H]ardcore Raider base is a small fraction of the millions of WoW subs. I've heard they make up maybe 25%.

    But WoW's core player base are casuals that never step foot inside current Raids.
    Sure, they have the numbers, but they unsub more often, have fewer total accounts, spend less on in game shop items, and bring in less revenue from outside sources like the tournaments etc. The tournaments alone bring in more revenue than thousands of casuals.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    If they DID decide to come back, they're just going to get greeted by blizzards X.2 "catch up" patches that leave them unable to do any content because they're locked behind an arbitrary 4 week grind for X Power like they have been the last 2 expansions in a row.
    As opposed to no catch up mechanic where they can't do the content? You have a skewed view of how the catch up mechanics function and how it limits people.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #735
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Not the majority, but the majority of actual income for the company, yes.

    Sure, they have the numbers, but they unsub more often, have fewer total accounts, spend less on in game shop items, and bring in less revenue from outside sources like the tournaments etc. The tournaments alone bring in more revenue than thousands of casuals.
    Source for the bolded parts, or it didn't happen.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-05-03 at 04:20 AM. Reason: Double post ftl
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Yeah no. Hardcore players are still very much the minority. The majority of the playerbase is casuals.
    "Casuals" aka people who play the game 80 hours a week but don't raid like the dreaded "hardcores" are definitely the majority of the playerbase and honestly they are biggest reason why it takes so long to acquire leggos and upgrade them to max. A raider would happily just make all of them but a casual player is going to probably just make one or two so if they can see a tangible upgrade every other week since the 200ish wall is there for non rated content it makes them happier.

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Source for the bolded parts, or it didn't happen.
    It's LITERALLY right in front of you as in YouTube promotions etc. I don't need to source that as it's common knowledge that events bring advertisers. Try again.

    Just to sate your lunacy about this: 2019 Blizzcon matches total prize pool was 330,000 dollars. Blizzard is not just going to be giving that money away without actually making it back at LEAST twofold. So right there we're looking at somewhere around 500k revenue from 1 event. If you REALLY somehow think they're taking a loss on these events rather than a massive gain(the 330k was included just to give a rough idea of what they gave away while making money) then no matter what evidence is presented you'll claim it's fabricated.
    Last edited by ohwell; 2021-05-03 at 04:50 AM.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    This isn't true. 99% of the playerbase are casuals. We absolutely are the target audience. So either get your facts straight or qft and continue grinding for them higher ilvls.
    What’s so casual about having conduit energy in the game? Withholding essence (horde HoF closed and next reset was essence vendor) and corruption vendors (5 weeks after alliance HoF filled) until after hall of fames had closed?

    Why the withholding of a vendor for islands until 8.1 and a better “vendor” until 8.3? Surely islands are simple enough content for all people to join in. Don’t even need a group, the game auto-matches you for normal/heroic.

    Why no layer 8 unlocks layer 8 for all other characters on your account from day one instead of weeks later?

    Why no valor point upgrades from day 1 of m+, and instead we have to wait till 9.0.5. All because blizzard thinks split raiding is degenerate and they want to put a damper on how quickly people can gear.

    Why no master loot in guild majority runs, like we had in legion? My heroic family alt guild at the time used it for antorus after we were annoyed at the lack of quality items in tomb.

    Why no legendary vendor from day 1 of legion (with obvious dripfeeding of currency of course)? Could it be blizzard didn’t want people to too deterministically gear and thus plow through their content at unprojected rates?

    Why no reforging of stats?

    Just thought of this now. Why have we not had comp stomp in a year? Last I remember doing it was in April last year when I was farming exalted on 2 characters and finishing up honor for rank 4 BotE? Oh wait upgrades for pvp gearing in shadowlands are done by honor, and we can’t let degens use this one event to mass upgrade all gear.

    Why no BoA rep tokens for BFA until 8.2 (which was nerfed) and then seriously brought in until 8.3? We had loads of tokens in MoP/WoD/Legion. Casuals love easy rep. Hell it would have made farming for 9 rank 4 paragons less annoying on my paladin in the inbetween time of the first double rep month and the subsequent 2 and 3 months.

    Blizzard has a fetish for preventing the top % from finishing things too quickly (and that entails all things not just raid progression). They love it so much they are willing to design a treadmill in an arms race with such players at the expense of everyone else’s enjoyment. And then participation metrics drop and the top % is done with the content, they add in the purposely withheld QoL change requested from day 1 of alpha/beta in order to stimulate the gameplay again.

    And this is only one half of the argument. Why the nonsensical pruning of information from character panels, tooltips, equip effects, and trinkets (high chance; has a chance; etc)? We used to have proc rates in mop not anymore. Was the math too big and scary for people who get lost on their way out of northshire? Idk, but that extreme sandblasting of information has to stop.

    All this consideration for the extremes of the population and they are letting everyone in the middle evaporate out of the box cause they forgot to put a proper lid when they were making the other sides.
    Last edited by Couchpotato2013; 2021-05-03 at 12:50 PM.

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Wrong. Content creators are there to make money. What's the best way to make money? Create a narrative that "Blizzard doesn't listen to us, here are my <insert idea that everyone has already said> that will fix the game". Using content creators as a gauge on what the players actually think is just wrong. Do the majority of people like Covenants? We don't know because this site only has hundreds of users now, not hundreds of thousands of users.
    Are you seriously discrediting content creators because they earn a few bucks for what they do?
    How much money is blizzard making off your smug ass again? Are you one of those "fake news" "crooked media" clamouring kind of ppl that always find some odd way to reinforce their own bias? If ppl like you led the world from the 1000s on, we'd still be living in caves.

  20. #740
    because the want lose near all subs?

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