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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I lean toward "don't want" while reminding myself that the game director used to run the Elitist Jerks website and has said that raiding and PVP are the only things in the game that are important. It's a mindset and is unlikely to change without significant changes at the top of the teams.

    I'll add that if that's the game they want it to be then that's fine and is their choice. I don't believe it's a very smart choice but it's quite clearly a deliberate one.
    Which is funny considering how many decisions they're making that hurt raiding and PvP in "favor" of people doing more casual content. People keep saying they only design around raid/M+/PvP, while as somebody doing that level of content it feels the exact opposite.
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Because elitists cry really hard anytime they aren't special snowflakes.
    In fact, you are crying for not having better gear right now. So, it's much the opposite.

    It's simply because the game is designed to give bigger rewards depending on the difficulty.
    The question is why do casuals need better gear for casual tasks?
    Handing gear like it doesn't matter undermines the motivation to actually complete the more challenging content to aquire it. It's not difficult to understand.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I lean toward "don't want" while reminding myself that the game director used to run the Elitist Jerks website and has said that raiding and PVP are the only things in the game that are important. It's a mindset and is unlikely to change without significant changes at the top of the teams.
    This mindset predates Ion and is basically the MO of WoW since inception.
    The only exception may be Classic WoW, which placed a heavy emphasis on leveling, but its endgame is also dominated by raiding and PvP.

    Blaming Ion for this is extremely superficial, especially in the light of the fact that Wotlk - WoD (Expansions where Ion was not Game director) barely had any endgame mechanics outside of raiding and PvP, at least as far as character progression is concerned.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    What the heck is this thread even on about?

    OP complaints about expansion being casual unfriendly while saying he can't minmax his offspec on the fly?! And mentions mythic raiding.

    Casuals don't suffer from this at all, its the blow to the hardcore crowd.
    Casuals simply switch the spec and go.

    SL is casual unfriendly but for literally every other reason than covenants.
    No flying or anime grind is why it could be unfriendly, but having to grind Soul Ash/Covenants/Conduits and Stygia a kick in a balls for hardcore players, not casuals, so it's certainly not catering for "evil elitists". Unless he is ultra min maxing CE Mythic raiding and 20+ pusher "casual"...

  5. #85
    Casual players are less likely to become whales when the game transitions to F2P/P2W.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  6. #86
    "Its unfair that people who spend more effective time in something get a bigger reward" - Thread in a nutshell

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    No flying or anime grind is why it could be unfriendly, but having to grind Soul Ash/Covenants/Conduits and Stygia a kick in a balls for hardcore players, not casuals, so it's certainly not catering for "evil elitists". Unless he is ultra min maxing CE Mythic raiding and 20+ pusher "casual"...
    Lack of gear progression, gated valor, no flying, insane anima requirement, boreghast turning out not fun nor rewarding, lack of casual content etc. But a damned offspec? No.

    For hardcore crowd it might not be fully raid or die but some annoying stuff is there too. Main issue for cauals is lack of progression probably. Unless someone counts farming gold and buying boosts a "viable progression path".
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  8. #88
    End-game right now is very casual friendly.
    We have a couple of 5-man groups in my guild that push 19's and 20's and they do keys once per week when it suits them. It can't get more casual friendly than that. None of them raid at all.
    And you can do the same if you do pvp.

    I raid 5 hours per week. And we have just killed Denathrius (not impressive at all by the way). I do 1 mythic key per week and Torghast (that takes 20 minutes in a group).
    I have never had it so easy. I don't need to farm anything. It is a casual players dream.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Why would a regular Joe care about having a fancy car?
    regular joe has to work hard to get a fancy car.

  10. #90
    Nothing wrong with playing casually, and nothing wrong with playing hardcore. The only thing that separates them is if you want the big rewards, you gotta put in the big effort. That's the way this game is now.

  11. #91
    Another thread full of people crying because the game is not tailored specifically to them. If you don't like the game, stop playing. It's very simple.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Lack of gear progression, gated valor, no flying, insane anima requirement, boreghast turning out not fun nor rewarding, lack of casual content etc. But a damned offspec? No.

    For hardcore crowd it might not be fully raid or die but some annoying stuff is there too. Main issue for cauals is lack of progression probably. Unless someone counts farming gold and buying boosts a "viable progression path".
    I would think that if valor was there from the start and not capped, but still required m+ achievements it would have been really nice character progression for casuals - you wouldn't feel bad for "wasting" your cap on upgrading 200ilvl items to next cap and then trying to push higher, but when you have cap, upgrading anything below 207 just wastes your limited resource.
    And cap is not even "catering" for hardcores either, it "protects" them from mindless grinds, but in the end cap is not liked by us either, it's very limiting. Only thing it caters too is Blizzards subs, so people can't just finish their character progression fast. I think they would just go and play alt rather than quit, but hey... blizz thinks otherwise.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Lack of gear progression, gated valor, no flying, insane anima requirement, boreghast turning out not fun nor rewarding, lack of casual content etc. But a damned offspec? No.

    For hardcore crowd it might not be fully raid or die but some annoying stuff is there too. Main issue for cauals is lack of progression probably. Unless someone counts farming gold and buying boosts a "viable progression path".
    Valor has to be gated. I'm not sure why this has to be explained in every thread. If there was no limit on valor, you'd be able to farm out a full set of near-mythic gear week 1. That completely negates the way gearing has always worked in WoW, which is weekly lockout based.

    Gear progression "doesn't exist" because easy content gives too good rewards, and then the only content that rewards better gear than that actually requires you to try, which most people apparently don't want to do. If WQs didn't give as good gear as normal raiding or unrated PvP, there'd be actual incentive to try normal raiding or low M+ keys.

    Agreed that no flying is annoying, that anima gains are not at all balanced compared to the costs and that Torghast fell short of what it should've been.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    Another thread full of people crying because the game is not tailored specifically to them. If you don't like the game, stop playing. It's very simple.
    That's a garbage "argument". Telling people to "just quit" doesn't fix anything. People should discuss their problems with the way the game currently functions, otherwise Blizzard lacks a vital piece of feedback. Data can only do so much, and it seems like they're massively overusing data and underusing actual feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I would think that if valor was there from the start and not capped, but still required m+ achievements it would have been really nice character progression for casuals - you wouldn't feel bad for "wasting" your cap on upgrading 200ilvl items to next cap and then trying to push higher, but when you have cap, upgrading anything below 207 just wastes your limited resource.
    And cap is not even "catering" for hardcores either, it "protects" them from mindless grinds, but in the end cap is not liked by us either, it's very limiting. Only thing it caters too is Blizzards subs, so people can't just finish their character progression fast. I think they would just go and play alt rather than quit, but hey... blizz thinks otherwise.
    If valor was there from the start and wasn't capped, we'd spend the entire first week or 2 of the tier inside M+ farming a full set of SLG/Denathrius heroic ilevel gear. That's bad gameplay and destroys gear progression, because WoW's gear progression has always been tied to weekly lockouts (less so in Legion/BfA because they had WF/TF to destroy gear progression)
    People keep comparing valor to honor, but that's not the actual comparison. It's end of dungeon chest + valor vs honor + conquest. One weekly capped component and one uncapped component.

    Gearing is already extremely quick, especially this tier with 4 BoEs and PvP gear to fill gaps.
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  14. #94
    wait...the game is designed against casuals because you cant multispec easily???
    i dont think that is a problem specifically for the casuals since its something that you see what you would call "elitists" complain about

    lower end guilds dont care about an offspec tank or healer not being optimized
    lower end guilds dont care about the stygia farm

    the top end also doesnt love the covenant system or the stygia farm....its literally the biggest problem and time sink that they complain about
    as for your issue in your guild group and wanting to tank i would say instead of wanting the design to change (although there are fights where one can solo tank them like shriekwing heroic) you should talk to your group instead of trying to say all of your issues are blizzard being mean to casuals

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Lack of gear progression, gated valor, no flying, insane anima requirement, boreghast turning out not fun nor rewarding, lack of casual content etc. But a damned offspec? No.

    For hardcore crowd it might not be fully raid or die but some annoying stuff is there too. Main issue for cauals is lack of progression probably. Unless someone counts farming gold and buying boosts a "viable progression path".
    heres what i dont get
    what do casual players do??
    normal raid is a progression path
    lfr is a progression path
    m+ is a progression patch
    is it collecting anima rewards??

    is the progression determined by the gear it gives and if so is that progression unviable due to the fact it doesnt reward the best gear??

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Lack of gear progression, gated valor, no flying, insane anima requirement, boreghast turning out not fun nor rewarding, lack of casual content etc. But a damned offspec? No.

    For hardcore crowd it might not be fully raid or die but some annoying stuff is there too. Main issue for cauals is lack of progression probably. Unless someone counts farming gold and buying boosts a "viable progression path".
    Gear Progression has never existed for casuals if they refuse to participate in harder content. You are simply not rewarded for doing nothing and that is completely fine and right. Earn your gear like everyone else or play a game that does not have gear. What even is this argument? "I don't wanna do the real content, but I want the rewards for it!!"

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Gear Progression has never existed for casuals if they refuse to participate in harder content. You are simply not rewarded for doing nothing and that is completely fine and right. Earn your gear like everyone else or play a game that does not have gear. What even is this argument? "I don't wanna do the real content, but I want the rewards for it!!"
    there is gear progression for the casual players
    its the covenant gear sets
    if that isnt enough then there are the weekly quests that give normal ilvl or the one that gives heroic


    if the progression is gear based then getting a gear set with set bonuses should be enough....but its not the best gear so it is not good enough

  18. #98
    I still don't know who "casuals" are and what they even want. WoW is the least meritocratic it has ever been when the easiest way to get loot is casual RBGs and the great vault. I think the problem is exactly the opposite; WoW isn't meritocratic enough and blizzard are scared to design challenging content because of all the baddies crying on forums. I hoped torghast would be like the mage tower but all the crying from baddies turned it into a joke.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    I am casual, because I can casually play, but when I play I do the best I can.
    Okay, so what's the problem? "The best you can do" in the case of wanting to play multiple specs as a casual just means that you're playing one spec with a suboptimal covenant choice and no or a low itemlevel legendary.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Because elitists cry really hard anytime they aren't special snowflakes.
    Mostly casuals whining. The actual high end deal with it and move on.

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