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  1. #1

    End justifies the means is not an excuse for this how practice fel , void and death

    End justifies the means and fighting fire with fire is not an excuse for warlock , death knight , demon hunter , shadow priest , necromancer , dark ranger , dark shaman , blood mage , void elf , rogue with shadow magic , druid with nightmare magic , cultist with old god/sha magic , witch doctor and shadow hunter to practice and use their evil magic for every twisted ideas that come in their heads.

    Also is their any price for their dark powers and by price I mean exhaustion , corruption , paranoia , becoming evil , insanity , suicide , suicide thoughts , madness , spells that backfire resulting in death , sacrifice , self-sacrifice , self-destruction , demonic possesion , possesion , killed by their minions , addiction and getting killed by their powers in the process.
    Last edited by Ironcurtain; 2021-04-23 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironcurtain View Post
    Also is their any price for this dark powers and by price I mean exhaustion , corruption , becoming evil , insanity , suicide , suicide thoughts , madness , spells that backfire resulting in death , sacrifice , self-sacrifice , demonic possesion , possesion , addiction and getting killed by their powers in the process.
    Marriage also causes all of above (and much more) and yet we still practice it.

    Not to mention that other classes also have their share of weird stuff.

  3. #3
    But tell us what you really think.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord
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    You have to remember these twisted individuals thinking like this often come from traumatic backgrounds that makes it difficult if not impossible to stop and think for just a second about what they're doing and whether they maybe could give it a rest and do something different if not achieve the same via a different path altogether.
    The price is often that they're consumed by either the medium of their twisted ways or the final reckoning of how wrong they were in the face of their defeat and subsequent death.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironcurtain View Post
    End justifies the means and fighting fire with fire is not an excuse for warlock , death knight , demon hunter , shadow priest , necromancer , dark ranger , dark shaman , blood mage , void elf , rogue with shadow magic , druid with nightmare magic , cultist with old god/sha magic , witch doctor and shadow hunter to practice and use their evil magic for every twisted ideas that come in their heads.
    You're probably right, in the case that the end is carrying out "every twisted idea that comes to their heads".

    I think the idea is that the good ones generally aren't doing this.

  6. #6
    I piss piss Fel and shit Void get over it OP.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

  7. #7
    A bit of blood sacrifice and demonic summoning has never hurt anyone.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk
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    All of the caveats you listed exist and happen regularly (remember the warlock at the Argent Tournament grounds?).

    The real trick is finding a way around them without mitigating any of the power gain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  9. #9
    Evil is subjective.

    If I use a shield to protect a child from an incoming arrow, wouldn't you call that shield "good"? Of course you would. But what if someone else used that same shield to bash a child in the face? Now you would call that shield "evil".

    And you would be wrong! Because these weapons are neither good nor evil, it all depends on the user, and how they choose to wield these weapons.

    The Void is a weapon to be used, nothing more. Void Lords use it for evil, but the Ren'dorei have demonstrated that they use it for good. People need to understand this, it's been almost 4 years since the Void elves' introduction. The Void is NOT good, it's NOT evil, it's a weapon. The Ren'dorei use it for good, that makes them good, the end.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Evil is subjective.

    If I use a shield to protect a child from an incoming arrow, wouldn't you call that shield "good"? Of course you would. But what if someone else used that same shield to bash a child in the face? Now you would call that shield "evil".

    And you are wrong! Because these weapons are neither good nor evil, it all depends on the user, and how they choose to wield these weapons.

    The Void is a weapon to be used, nothing more. Void Lords use it for evil, but the Ren'dorei have demonstrated that they use it for good. People need to understand this, it's been almost 4 years since the Void elves' introduction. The Void is NOT good, it's NOT evil, it's a weapon.
    I'd ask what child first in both cases.

    Yes, though. A tool is only as good or evil as the one who wields it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Evil is subjective.

    If I use a shield to protect a child from an incoming arrow, wouldn't you call that shield "good"? Of course you would. But what if someone else used that same shield to bash a child in the face? Now you would call that shield "evil".

    And you would be wrong! Because these weapons are neither good nor evil, it all depends on the user, and how they choose to wield these weapons.

    The Void is a weapon to be used, nothing more. Void Lords use it for evil, but the Ren'dorei have demonstrated that they use it for good. People need to understand this, it's been almost 4 years since the Void elves' introduction. The Void is NOT good, it's NOT evil, it's a weapon. The Ren'dorei use it for good, that makes them good, the end.
    sure they are "just" a weapon in the same way torture terror and rape are just weapons.

    using these nasty types of magic isn't "bashing someone in the face with a shield" it's "putting rusted barbed wire on your shield and slowly scraping it across someones face". they just inherently work that way.

    typically if you want to call yourself civilized you try to avoid such methods if at all possible.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-04-23 at 07:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    sure they are "just" a weapon in the same way torture terror and rape are just weapons.

    using these nasty types of weapons isn't "bashing someone in the face with a shield" it's "putting rusted barbed wire on your shield and slowly scraping it across someones face". they just inherently work that way.

    typically if you want to call yourself civilized you try to avoid such methods if at all possible.
    You say that these weapons should be avoided, and yet the Legion likely would have won without Illidan and the Illidari using their own powers against them, which proved to be very effective in countering them. These powers can't be that "evil" if they saved the cosmos many times.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    You say that these weapons should be avoided, and yet the Legion likely would have won without Illidan and the Illidari using their own powers against them, which proved to be very effective in countering them. These powers can't be that "evil" if they saved the cosmos many times.
    everybody resorts to barbaric methods when they have no choice. that's not what you judge people on. you judge them on the times they do have a choice. but the argument "keep it around in case it's needed in the future" is a decent one to make in a fantasy setting.

    there are tons of weapons IRL that are prohibited by international treaties because they are too cruel. weapons can cause pain or maiming as secondary effects, but if it's the primary means they tend to get banned.

    but let me ask you this: do you think it's possible to create a nicer/cleaner alternative to spells like agony? i bet warlocks have tried and failed.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    everybody resorts to barbaric methods when they have no choice. that's not what you judge people on. you judge them on the times they do have a choice. but the argument "keep it around in case it's needed in the future" is a decent one to make in a fantasy setting.

    but let me ask you this: do you think it's possible to create a nicer/cleaner alternative to spells like agony? i bet warlocks have tried and failed.
    I mean, Warcraft is a universe with demons, zombies, orcs, etc. all kinds of monsters that obviously don't exist in real life. And so it shouldn't be a surprise that people eventually take up more "barbaric" methods to survive, like the Illidari did to fight the Legion, or the Ren'dorei are doing to fight the Void. It would be nice if there were an alternative to spells like agony, just as it would be nice if demons, zombies, and orcs didn't exist, but clearly the Warcraft universe is not meant to be "nice".
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I mean, Warcraft is a universe with demons, zombies, orcs, etc. all kinds of monsters that obviously don't exist in real life. And so it shouldn't be a surprise that people eventually take up more "barbaric" methods to survive, like the Illidari did to fight the Legion, or the Ren'dorei are doing to fight the Void. It would be nice if there were an alternative to spells like agony, just as it would be nice if demons, zombies, and orcs didn't exist, but clearly the Warcraft universe is not meant to be "nice".
    warcraft is definitely meant to be "nice". it's not a dark setting at all.

    but it's starting to sounds like you do actually agree that these weapons are inherently evil, and that they are only used because they are needed.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    warcraft is definitely meant to be "nice". it's not a dark setting at all.

    but it's starting to sounds like you do actually agree that these weapons are inherently evil, and that they are only used because they are needed.
    Every power is inherently evil then. Light is evil towards the Venthyr since it causes them excruciating pain. Arcane is evil because too much of it can blow you up, plus you can make nukes out of Arcane energy (see Mana Bombs). Life is also evil because nature spores can literally invade someone's brain and turn them into zombies, like they did to the Kirin Tor expedition in Gorgrond. So as you can see it's not like Fel, Void, Death are so much worse than the "good" powers of the Warcraft cosmos.

    And Warcraft would be a super dark setting to live in, since there are yearly world-ending threats.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Every power is inherently evil then. Light is evil towards the Venthyr since it causes them excruciating pain. Arcane is evil because too much of it can blow you up, plus you can make nukes out of Arcane energy (see Mana Bombs). Life is also evil because nature spores can literally invade someone's brain and turn them into zombies, like they did to the Kirin Tor expedition in Gorgrond. So as you can see it's not like Fel, Void, Death are so much worse than the "good" powers of the Warcraft cosmos.

    And Warcraft would be a super dark setting to live in, since there are yearly world-ending threats.
    it's like regular bullets vs hollowpoint bullets. one is designed to kill cleanly, and one is designed to maim.

    with the average evil magic, killing you isn't the intended result, causing you suffering is.

    And Warcraft would be a super dark setting to live in, since there are yearly world-ending threats.
    warcraft has good guys, hope, most fights aren't in vain, etc. all the evil stuff is toned down and happens behind the scenes.

    shadow magic displayed in game is more of less the same as fire/arcane/etc. in the books it's a bit more graphic about how it really works. and in actually dark settings they'll go out of their way to make sure you're doing some fucked up shit.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-04-23 at 08:44 PM.

  18. #18
    Found the Scarlet Crusade infiltrator!

  19. #19
    Maybe some of us don't care about "justifying the means" and just wish to revel in the sweet corruptive power of darkness. Perhaps for some of us, the Light was never there.

  20. #20
    Fel magic, void magic, and death magic aren't innately evil. They're no more evil than light or life or arcane. Xe'ra was essentially forcing the light upon Illidan. The botani used life to infest and enslave organisms to spread their own influence. The Kirin Tor and shal'dorei both used different forms of arcane prisons to imprison innocent people. While we can point to Arthas and say death magic destroyed Quel'thelas or point at the Legion and say fel magic destroyed...I'm sure the Legion at some point actually succeeded in destroying something with fel magic, that doesn't make death and fel innately evil or bad to use.

    Also, self-sacrifice/self-destruction sounds way more a paladin/light thing than death/fel/void thing.

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