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  1. #1

    Any havoc here that stayed all the way regardless of the BS in SL?

    I stayed all the way.

    Not gonna lie, it was harder as a result. But I managed to clear all of the mythic content in CN did got Glad this season in 3v3 and 2300 in RBG/2v2
    Only thing I am trying to to achieve still is to get into 15 Mythic+ Groups.

    Overall, I managed to overcome the 'best spec' dilemma and I stayed with bad spec for once. Guess what? I managed to get everything done, regardless of simscrafting and all that garbage, it even changed my mindset to lean towards playing a spec that feels/looks fun rather than which one does highest dmg.

  2. #2
    Yep...class balance ebbs and flows, so you should generally play what you enjoy, and havoc is a solid enough class at a baseline that our problems are usually just a balance tuning away from being fixed. We should actually be pretty good in 9.1 after the additional single target increases, and even in 9.0 i'm not finding that my performance is anywhere near as bad as you'd expect if you just look at the number padding fiesta that is warcraftlogs. PVP will still probably be a wash, but at least it wont be mandatory in 9.1 with the ilvl changes and improvements to raid loot.

  3. #3
    I stayed, but I haven't been playing much for it to matter any. Spec still kills stuff last I checked. All I need it to do.
    "May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

    "May the Goddess smile upon you."

    "Hero", is what they've all been saying. This world, it isn't worth the saving."

  4. #4
    Not only did I not stay a Havoc ( rerolled Hunter and they nerfed that too lolol ), but I outright unsubbed.

    It was ridiculous to see parse 20 mages beat my parse 80. This literally tells me skill doesn't matter and that other classes can faceroll and do better.

    People didn't want Havoc for M+ or for Raids, and as such I had to join a guild that was weaker than what I was used to. This also resulted in slower clearing ( we were world 1200 or so and spent weeks on bosses like Sludge and Council months into the tier ) and I burned out of the game.

    I find it UNACCEPTABLE that a class which only has 2 specs has no viable DPS spec and is also dogshit ( 0% representation in the PvP tournament ) in PvP. Unacceptable. Like they're already lazy enough to only give us 2 specs where Druid has 4 ( all of them good ), but they give us 2 specs and 1 of them is dogshit?

    And it seems like they aren't doing any big changes to it in 9.1, they just buffed its single target DPS by about 4%. Woah. Woopty doo. There's fights on which the number 1 is 20% ahead of us.

  5. #5
    Jep, rolled DH in SL and still enjoy the game. I am middle of the pack dps, but fuck it.. as long as I enjoy the game

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Jep, rolled DH in SL and still enjoy the game. I am middle of the pack dps, but fuck it.. as long as I enjoy the game
    I see this posted a lot. DH is only middle pack if you look at all specs. But competitive players are just going to use the best one for their class. We're not ''middle pack'', we're pretty much dead last. Every class has a spec that beats ours in raid DPS.

    Sub Rogue doing worse than us isn't a consolation prize for me when Assassination is a top5 spec. They can just switch to that. I as a Havoc have no other DPS spec to switch to.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    I see this posted a lot. DH is only middle pack if you look at all specs. But competitive players are just going to use the best one for their class. We're not ''middle pack'', we're pretty much dead last. Every class has a spec that beats ours in raid DPS.

    Sub Rogue doing worse than us isn't a consolation prize for me when Assassination is a top5 spec. They can just switch to that. I as a Havoc have no other DPS spec to switch to.
    congratz. I don't play in a world first guild, neither do you. It doesn't matter except for some edgelords. I still do M+ at the level I want, I still do raiding at the level I want (and before you start "omg LFR hero hur hur" no)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    I see this posted a lot. DH is only middle pack if you look at all specs. But competitive players are just going to use the best one for their class. We're not ''middle pack'', we're pretty much dead last. Every class has a spec that beats ours in raid DPS.

    Sub Rogue doing worse than us isn't a consolation prize for me when Assassination is a top5 spec. They can just switch to that. I as a Havoc have no other DPS spec to switch to.
    by that metric more than half of all specs are "dead last". That's no way to look at class balance.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    by that metric more than half of all specs are "dead last". That's no way to look at class balance.
    That is why I look at classes. If we only look at specs then I guess there is no reason to change Havoc.

    The result is people will keep not using them, fewer and fewer players will play the class and this is how you get images like this one

    h t t p s : / / w w w .arenamate.n e t/?region=&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&faction=

    Where you have 19.6% of players being Paladins at high rating in PvP and only 1.3% being Demon Hunters. This is absolutely laughable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    It doesn't matter except for some edgelords.
    This is a doomer mentality. Classes should be balanced.

    That's why devs get paid.
    Last edited by starstationprofm; 2021-04-24 at 08:36 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    That is why I look at classes. If we only look at specs then I guess there is no reason to change Havoc.

    The result is people will keep not using them, fewer and fewer players will play the class and this is how you get images like this one

    h t t p s : / / w w w .arenamate.n e t/?region=&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&faction=

    Where you have 19.6% of players being Paladins at high rating in PvP and only 1.3% being Demon Hunters. This is absolutely laughable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is a doomer mentality. Classes should be balanced.

    That's why devs get paid.
    kek.. ok armchair developer!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    I stayed all the way.

    Not gonna lie, it was harder as a result. But I managed to clear all of the mythic content in CN did got Glad this season in 3v3 and 2300 in RBG/2v2
    Only thing I am trying to to achieve still is to get into 15 Mythic+ Groups.

    Overall, I managed to overcome the 'best spec' dilemma and I stayed with bad spec for once. Guess what? I managed to get everything done, regardless of simscrafting and all that garbage, it even changed my mindset to lean towards playing a spec that feels/looks fun rather than which one does highest dmg.
    Same here. I've been a main havoc DH since they first came out and atm they are not bad or atleast not that bad. I'm still doing pretty good at it. It's the easiest class for me to clear torghast with. I've managed RBG, 3v3, and even +15s (Only need PF though, god what an annoying dungeon)on it. Dmgwise their ST is noticeably low, but I've managed to top the dps charts against the current meta dps specs in most of the keys I run. I welcome the upcoming buffs though but even without them, you can still excel with it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    kek.. ok armchair developer!
    Better than the ones they've got. But if you're happy with paying the same money as other players and yet having way worse odds of finding quality groups because you made the wrong decision on 'create character', power to you.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    That is why I look at classes. If we only look at specs then I guess there is no reason to change Havoc.

    The result is people will keep not using them, fewer and fewer players will play the class and this is how you get images like this one

    h t t p s : / / w w w .arenamate.n e t/?region=&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&faction=

    Where you have 19.6% of players being Paladins at high rating in PvP and only 1.3% being Demon Hunters. This is absolutely laughable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is a doomer mentality. Classes should be balanced.

    That's why devs get paid.
    What are you talking about? It isnt the devs job to balance the classes. It's their job to keep them unbalanced to encourage people to reroll and spend more. It's amazing how naive people are after 17 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    What are you talking about? It isnt the devs job to balance the classes. It's their job to keep them unbalanced to encourage people to reroll and spend more. It's amazing how naive people are after 17 years.
    Well, in my case it made me stop paying them so they should fire those devs since they still fucked up.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Well, in my case it made me stop paying them so they should fire those devs since they still fucked up.
    This is the correct response but unfortunately it isn't what most people do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    I see this posted a lot. DH is only middle pack if you look at all specs. But competitive players are just going to use the best one for their class. We're not ''middle pack'', we're pretty much dead last. Every class has a spec that beats ours in raid DPS.

    Sub Rogue doing worse than us isn't a consolation prize for me when Assassination is a top5 spec. They can just switch to that. I as a Havoc have no other DPS spec to switch to.
    If you compare all the melee specs you will actually see they are pretty close to each other in performance, ranged classes always have an advantage with higher uptime of boss fights, rogue is the worst class overall this expansion, DH is actually really great and even the top range specs only perform at most 2k dps more where the DK is still doing 9k dps which is more than enough for all mythic content. Maybe you can actually learn to play the class properly and you wont think its dogshit.

    Unless your pushing super high keys its irrelevant what class you play, any comp can do a 15-20 key. If your not getting 90 plus parses on your DH then your not skilled enough at it.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-04-24 at 09:41 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    That is why I look at classes. If we only look at specs then I guess there is no reason to change Havoc.

    The result is people will keep not using them, fewer and fewer players will play the class and this is how you get images like this one

    h t t p s : / / w w w .arenamate.n e t/?region=&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&faction=

    Where you have 19.6% of players being Paladins at high rating in PvP and only 1.3% being Demon Hunters. This is absolutely laughable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is a doomer mentality. Classes should be balanced.

    That's why devs get paid.
    If you look at classes then DH is top, since the are the de facto best m+ tank.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    If you compare all the melee specs you will actually see they are pretty close to each other in performance, ranged classes always have an advantage with higher uptime of boss fights, rogue is the worst class overall this expansion, DH is actually really great and even the top range specs only perform at most 2k dps more where the DK is still doing 9k dps which is more than enough for all mythic content. Maybe you can actually learn to play the class properly and you wont think its dogshit.

    Unless your pushing super high keys its irrelevant what class you play, any comp can do a 15-20 key. If your not getting 90 plus parses on your DH then your not skilled enough at it.
    Not really? WW, DK and Rogue are way above DH.

    On Hungering Destroyer the top Rogue has 7100 DPS ( I ignore the PI ones )

    The top DH has 6500 DPS.

    That's a 10% difference and Rogue also brings utilities like cloak that are actually useful.
    Last edited by starstationprofm; 2021-04-24 at 10:23 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Not really? WW, DK and Rogue are way above DH.
    You think a class being able to do 8-9k dps is weak just because a few classes can do 10-11k on certain boss fights, playing a melee class means you accept doing less dps because you have to deal with mechanics and lose time on the boss, all melee specs are close to each other in performance just look at the logs, rogue is the worst spec from all its specs. Not many melee dps specs can even get 10k and only on heavy cleave fights.

    DH also performs very well in high keys from both its specs, i have never had any issues on high keys with a DH dps in the group.

    Generally top logs are getting fed as many buffs as possible so its an artificial boost to thier dps, PI doesnt do much for DH.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-04-24 at 10:40 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Well, in my case it made me stop paying them so they should fire those devs since they still fucked up.
    You're angry that the classes aren't balanced. You're told the developers deliberately keep them unbalanced. So you double down and say they should be fired because YOU don't like their company's business model. Well, you got me. You got me to post in a bait thread.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

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