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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    If it makes you feel better hunters are looking to fall off super hard next patch. Their spec right now is strong but MM doesn't scale well they are already near the bottom of the pack of geared groups.

    DH still scale very well. I see them being a strong pick in 9.1 and one of the strongest melee later in the expansion.
    Why would they be? DH right now is towards the bottom in single target. What did they change to make you think they'll be good?

    Mastery is still useless for us.

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire Mightytasty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    I don't really play much anymore but when I do its usually dh. Honestly I could care less about whether or not demon hunters are viable for pve or pvp.That's never been an issue to me.

    What does makes me wanna stop playing the class is the fact that it just doesn't feel fleshed out and whole like other classes. It'd be nice if they looked into adding something new to the class or maybe change some of the less used talents. I'd probaby want to play the class more if they made metamorphosis feel more impactful to the classes gameplay instead of just a dps cooldown like it is now.
    This is where I’m at. My DH was planned to be my main alt but it fell off for me. The class feels as shallow as a puddle especially now that it’s stripped of its borrowed power, and to make matters worse it only has 2 specs. It’s the only class I play where my action bars aren’t even half full. It just needs...more.

    Lots of unused/dead talents. Yes every class in the game has dead talents but it feels worse on a DH. On my Druid/shaman/mage/whatever I’m picking passive talents just to free up space on my bars, but on my DH I want more ways to interact with my class. Meta is extremely boring.

    I will say, while the class is lacking depth for WoW vets it’s EXCELLENT for new players. My fiancée is brand new to the game and bounced around different classes before landing on the DH and it’s perfect for her. Tuning-wise, Blizz has to be careful not to buff Havoc too much just because of how easy it is to play, and I think they’ve done a good job in that respect this expansion.
    Last edited by Mightytasty; 2021-05-15 at 04:47 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    I stayed all the way.

    Not gonna lie, it was harder as a result. But I managed to clear all of the mythic content in CN did got Glad this season in 3v3 and 2300 in RBG/2v2
    Only thing I am trying to to achieve still is to get into 15 Mythic+ Groups.

    Overall, I managed to overcome the 'best spec' dilemma and I stayed with bad spec for once. Guess what? I managed to get everything done, regardless of simscrafting and all that garbage, it even changed my mindset to lean towards playing a spec that feels/looks fun rather than which one does highest dmg.
    Are you looking for a pat on the back or something? It’s common knowledge that every spec is viable unless it’s in a world first group and it’s not uncommon to find people in a group that don’t care that they are holding back the other 19 players like you’re admitting.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Are you looking for a pat on the back or something? It’s common knowledge that every spec is viable unless it’s in a world first group and it’s not uncommon to find people in a group that don’t care that they are holding back the other 19 players like you’re admitting.
    How are they being "held back" if they cleared everything?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Why would they be? DH right now is towards the bottom in single target. What did they change to make you think they'll be good?

    Mastery is still useless for us.
    Well they buffed our generators and our chaos strike which are pure ST abilities by 15% so that should help a lot with it.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Well they buffed our generators and our chaos strike which are pure ST abilities by 15% so that should help a lot with it.
    That translates into a 4% dmg buff or something. We were like 20% behind the first spots on some fights.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    That translates into a 4% dmg buff or something. We were like 20% behind the first spots on some fights.
    Are there any patchwerk style fights in 9.1? The more adds the better we do

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Are there any patchwerk style fights in 9.1? The more adds the better we do
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...s/26#boss=2406

    Not really. The only fight on which DH does really good is Denathrius and that's probably because of Phase 1.

    Apart from Denathrius we're among the weakest classes in all fights, be they ST or AoE.

  9. #49
    Gosh, whenever I see people getting so mad classes arent balanced to 1% margin or something all I can think of is this dark legacy comic:

    https://www.darklegacycomics.com/558

    Like ugh, come on, it's impossible to have 24 diverse dps specs and have them all equally balanced... it's either hit and miss balance or complete homogenisation.

    DH dps is fine. They had their turn as top dogs in BFA, now they are middle of the pack which is still enough to literally clear every content, including glad range in pvp and m+ raiding...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Gosh, whenever I see people getting so mad classes arent balanced to 1% margin or something all I can think of is this dark legacy comic:

    https://www.darklegacycomics.com/558

    Like ugh, come on, it's impossible to have 24 diverse dps specs and have them all equally balanced... it's either hit and miss balance or complete homogenisation.

    DH dps is fine. They had their turn as top dogs in BFA, now they are middle of the pack which is still enough to literally clear every content, including glad range in pvp and m+ raiding...
    Apparently to some people here, we should never balance or rotate specs toward the top (to get their time in the sun) just because of prior performance. Cause lol jk why should fire, aff, and shadow’s above 0% since WoD representation mean anything? Disregard that since havoc was the only useful spec to buff those specs, that means nothing cause its performance wasn’t bis.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Nmi9k/pubhtml#
    Last edited by Couchpotato2013; 2021-05-20 at 09:14 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    Apparently to some people here, we should never balance or rotate specs toward the top (to get their time in the sun) just because of prior performance. Cause lol jk why should fire, aff, and shadow’s above 0% since WoD representation mean anything? Disregard that since havoc was the only useful spec to buff those specs, that means nothing cause its performance wasn’t bis.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Nmi9k/pubhtml#
    I see this spreadsheet often. And it still baffles me that apparently only 4 DPS specs perform above average according to the mythic data. Something is wrong here.
    Also using average apparently skews the data. Median would probably be better.

    Also comparing classes with 3 DPS specs to classes with only one and wondering why classes with 3 specs do better is stupid.
    AND it doesn't include m+ at all.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2021-05-20 at 09:24 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I see this spreadsheet often. And it still baffles me that apparently only 4 DPS specs perform above average according to the mythic data. Something is wrong here.
    Also using average apparently skews the data. Median would probably be better.

    Also comparing classes with 3 DPS specs to classes with only one and wondering why classes with 3 specs do better is stupid.
    AND it doesn't include m+ at all.
    It’s why it’s broken down by spec. But then again shadow is the lone dps for its class and it shines above ret, ww, and havoc (which was only needed cause of the overperforming specs).

    And as for m+ all you have to do is create pie charts for each season of m+, and for specific flat io scores (so like all 10s, all 15s, all 20s, and all 25s). I do know that for bfa s4 end, havoc DH comprised ~12.5% of all characters of 1932+ io (flat all 15s score).

    But then the point comes up there that people will goalpost up and down that X metric doesn’t matter or that balance intrinsically can’t exist at a certain level and thus you shouldn’t fret about it. Thus over-representation in m+ is bit more fickle.

    And then as for pvp, blizzard still can’t at all provide decent api to track each match done by each character (who they played with, what spec/talents, against who, if they won, Starting+ending CR/MMR, and when). Drustvar, checkpvp, and arenamate (plus others) are so fractured and require manual update each time.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    It’s why it’s broken down by spec. But then again shadow is the lone dps for its class and it shines above ret, ww, and havoc (which was only needed cause of the overperforming specs).

    And as for m+ all you have to do is create pie charts for each season of m+, and for specific flat io scores (so like all 10s, all 15s, all 20s, and all 25s). I do know that for bfa s4 end, havoc DH comprised ~12.5% of all characters of 1932+ io (flat all 15s score).

    But then the point comes up there that people will goalpost up and down that X metric doesn’t matter or that balance intrinsically can’t exist at a certain level and thus you shouldn’t fret about it. Thus over-representation in m+ is bit more fickle.

    And then as for pvp, blizzard still can’t at all provide decent api to track each match done by each character (who they played with, what spec/talents, against who, if they won, Starting+ending CR/MMR, and when). Drustvar, checkpvp, and arenamate (plus others) are so fractured and require manual update each time.
    Still, why are there only 4 DPS specs that performed above average overall? That's not really how the average works, is it?

    In general I think that balance doesn't matter as much as many people make it out to. But I'm also not a mythic raider and like playing the unpopular specs, if their gameplay is more fun to me. And as long as DH is the only class with the 5% magic dmg taken debuff it will have a place in raids. Havoc just suffers because Vengeance was/is broken/very good this tier.

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