Any havoc here that stayed all the way regardless of the BS in SL?

[starstationprofm]

You're angry that the classes aren't balanced. You're told the developers deliberately keep them unbalanced. So you double down and say they should be fired because YOU don't like their company's business model. Well, you got me. You got me to post in a bait thread.

You sound like a major doomer, guy.

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You think a class being able to do 8-9k dps is weak just because a few classes can do 10-11k on certain boss fights, playing a melee class means you accept doing less dps because you have to deal with mechanics and lose time on the boss

First of all, melee doing less DPS is unacceptable, bad game design.

Secondly, I clearly ignored PI logs.

[Yarathir]

Yep, mained havoc from when they were first added until now. Was a bit rocky at the start of SL, but it's enjoyable again now. Wish people would stop their meme-tier seething at the fact that DHs exist, though.

[xezar]

Pretty much stuck with Havoc since Legion, though to be fair I pretty much ignored last expac entirely after last month.

[Thelxi]

The moment I saw the SL notes I got their intentions and made plans to switch.

[demonik]

I don't really play much anymore but when I do its usually dh. Honestly I could care less about whether or not demon hunters are viable for pve or pvp.That's never been an issue to me.

What does makes me wanna stop playing the class is the fact that it just doesn't feel fleshed out and whole like other classes. It'd be nice if they looked into adding something new to the class or maybe change some of the less used talents. I'd probaby want to play the class more if they made metamorphosis feel more impactful to the classes gameplay instead of just a dps cooldown like it is now.

[Tyris Flare]

A class with insane mobility, a mandatory raid debuff, and one of the easiest "rotations" in the game probably shouldn't anywhere near as good as it was in 8.3 or most of BFA where it was #1-2 melee spec constantly with outlaw rogues in M+.

We also don't know how any of the new borrowed power will work out in 9.1 yet but yes, a 20% gap is way too high, and melee doing less than ranged by default is also stupid considering how few melee spots even exist in a raid.

But like, again, DH have a mandatory raid debuff. Enhancement/feral/ret are all completely fucked unless they are majorly overtuned. DK would be too but thankfully they added AMZ.

[Baine]

This is the correct response but unfortunately it isn't what most people do.

Because I don't care what is the state of a class / spec. I always play the same spec. So yeah sometimes I am weaker, sometimes I am stronger.,

[Yarathir]

A class with insane mobility, a mandatory raid debuff, and one of the easiest "rotations" in the game probably shouldn't anywhere near as good as it was in 8.3 or most of BFA where it was #1-2 melee spec constantly with outlaw rogues in M+.

We also don't know how any of the new borrowed power will work out in 9.1 yet but yes, a 20% gap is way too high, and melee doing less than ranged by default is also stupid considering how few melee spots even exist in a raid.

But like, again, DH have a mandatory raid debuff. Enhancement/feral/ret are all completely fucked unless they are majorly overtuned. DK would be too but thankfully they added AMZ.

Cool memes.

[Azerate]

I'm not a DH main but people who truly love their class don't just reroll cause it performs slightly worse in a patch. Just my two cents. My class (warrior) has also had it pretty rough in SL, but I'm not suddenly gonna stop playing my fav class cause someone does more dps.

[Barzotti]

I keep playing DH. The class was fun to play in Legion, fun to play in BfA and is fun to play in SL. It's not the best spec damage wise but DH is not reliant on major cooldowns and the spec is fine as it is. I'd prefer a rehaul of Metamorphosis like in pvp (2 minutes cd, 15 seconds duration) but that's it. The spec still feels good to play and the buffs to single target damage in 9.1 are appreciated.

[Marrilaife]

But like, again, DH have a mandatory raid debuff.

Which you can just slap on the tank. There's a reason why on Sire mythic there's 1k+ parses of DH and Monk tanks but sub 200 of any other tanks. Blizzard doesn't care if your spec is viable. If DH can play tank, Pala can play Holy and Druid can play Boomkin, Havoc, Ret and Feral can rot in the garbage bin, that's Blizz mentality for you "your class has a viable spec" even if it's a completely different role you're not interested in.

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This is the correct response but unfortunately it isn't what most people do.

True, this game is balanced around FOTM rerolling and if you don't want to subject yourself to that, your only option is to take the door. Even if the gap "isn't very big" the community will gatekeep you if you don't roll with the FOTM, you will get declined from higher m+, you will get benched in higher ranked mythic guilds, so you either suffer thought it, reroll, or quit.

[Garymorilix]

It's so cringe watching havoc players throw a tantrum cuz "boohoo, we are no longer top 3 single & aoe dps with a 3 button rotation", my god.

DH has insane mobility, a magic debuff, AoE CC and a paralyze that doesn't pull agro. Then there is Darkness.
As an added benefit they have no fixed rotation and can basically spam away on the same 3 - 4 abilites regardless of single target or cleave / AoE.

The class itself is so brain dead to play that if it pulls competitive numbers you just start to see it everywhere: looking at you, BfA.

I get it, it's fun to play and just spam sh*t without having to actually think.
But the argument that such a spec should be top 5 raid dps (while that would just skyrocket it in M+) is just beyond dumb.

[Yarathir]

It's so cringe watching havoc players throw a tantrum cuz "boohoo, we are no longer top 3 single & aoe dps with a 3 button rotation", my god.

DH has insane mobility, a magic debuff, AoE CC and a paralyze that doesn't pull agro. Then there is Darkness.
As an added benefit they have no fixed rotation and can basically spam away on the same 3 - 4 abilites regardless of single target or cleave / AoE.

The class itself is so brain dead to play that if it pulls competitive numbers you just start to see it everywhere: looking at you, BfA.

I get it, it's fun to play and just spam sh*t without having to actually think.
But the argument that such a spec should be top 5 raid dps (while that would just skyrocket it in M+) is just beyond dumb.

Nice meme.

[Canisis]

I Stayed havoc have done KSM and currently raid mythic CN. What is sad though is me parsing in the 90s and blue parse boomkins/mages/priests shitting on my numbers xD

[unlockedz]

again the 3 button argument.
how many buttons does a monk have outside of cds?
dk unholy raid rotation is also brainless shit outside of the 4cds+army
rogue is almost the same as dh in raid on combat and assa
warrior is piss easy as well in raids
mage/druid are also sleeper specs.
i mean have you people compared these specs really? what specs are actually difficult once you form muscle memory on them? (i am sure there are a few. i've no ideea how warlock/spriest/enh are played)
we have weakauras/logs/addons to dumb everything down. anyone that wishes to perform can eventually do so on most classes.
ofc havoc is slightly easier but that's on blizzard, not the players. they have so many options to increase the difficulty even right now if they'd tune it a little bit.
your comment is really cringe in this age of wow where if you put any real effort most classes are stupid easy in pve at least. watch logs of someone(s) that did good and emulate their cds, practice practice test test pratice some more congrats you're doing minimum blue parses.
but relax, i'm sure we're in the shit box for this expansion. i imagine survival hunters will outdps us on 9.1 so you're safe from havocs. i for one will switch to whatever melee is fotm.
i will stop my rant here.

[Yarathir]

again the 3 button argument.
how many buttons does a monk have outside of cds?
dk unholy raid rotation is also brainless shit outside of the 4cds+army
rogue is almost the same as dh in raid on combat and assa
warrior is piss easy as well in raids
mage/druid are also sleeper specs.
i mean have you people compared these specs really? what specs are actually difficult once you form muscle memory on them? (i am sure there are a few. i've no ideea how warlock/spriest/enh are played)
we have weakauras/logs/addons to dumb everything down. anyone that wishes to perform can eventually do so on most classes.
ofc havoc is slightly easier but that's on blizzard, not the players. they have so many options to increase the difficulty even right now if they'd tune it a little bit.
your comment is really cringe in this age of wow where if you put any real effort most classes are stupid easy in pve at least. watch logs of someone(s) that did good and emulate their cds, practice practice test test pratice some more congrats you're doing minimum blue parses.
but relax, i'm sure we're in the shit box for this expansion. i imagine survival hunters will outdps us on 9.1 so you're safe from havocs. i for one will switch to whatever melee is fotm.
i will stop my rant here.

You're right. "Le 3 button spec" maymay is just that, a meme. Except WoW has this annoying fixation on keeping memes alive for years, decades at times, while the actual players of those classes move on.

[Engal]

Well, I have a hunter in my guild that is 214 ilvl, I'm 224. He do almost as much damage as me , sometime more on some fight. I find this a bit silly and stupid.

[Zellas]

I wonder just how many years it will take Billzord Inc. to 'invent' a pretty much obvious "fix" to Fel rush builds by adding some sort of "Fel slash" ability that would deal exactly same damage as Fel rush, proc exactly same multiplier from the Unbound chaos talent and share exactly same charge and cooldown with the Fel rush, but would only deal X damage in front of the caster without actually moving him forward?

[Crimson Spears]

Well, I have a hunter in my guild that is 214 ilvl, I'm 224. He do almost as much damage as me , sometime more on some fight. I find this a bit silly and stupid.

If it makes you feel better hunters are looking to fall off super hard next patch. Their spec right now is strong but MM doesn't scale well they are already near the bottom of the pack of geared groups.

DH still scale very well. I see them being a strong pick in 9.1 and one of the strongest melee later in the expansion.

[Engal]

I wonder just how many years it will take Billzord Inc. to 'invent' a pretty much obvious "fix" to Fel rush builds by adding some sort of "Fel slash" ability that would deal exactly same damage as Fel rush, proc exactly same multiplier from the Unbound chaos talent and share exactly same charge and cooldown with the Fel rush, but would only deal X damage in front of the caster without actually moving him forward?

As long as they do encounter like sludgefist, I'll never want a fel rush / momentum spec.